Arsène Wenger: Same Old Class

[redwhiteAustrian]

ESPN just posted how bad Arsenal injuries have been over the last five years. Worst 'early season' record in the Prem.

Wonder who'll post 'that's no excuse' first. Wenger's done incredibly well to keep us top 4 with those stats

So you believe it's just bad luck, that it happens every season?

 

[Chami]

So you believe it's just bad luck, that it happens every season?

Well somebody could argue that with a smaller transfert budget come a smaller squad of less overall quality which then translate into overplaying your best players to keep up with bigger squad other clubs have.
Which itself, translate into the increased necessity, once one of the first XI player is injured and remplaced in the squad by a weaker one, to overplay even more the other first XI players which lead to even more injuries and so on.

 

[celestis]

@Chami That's an interesting point .

 

[Makingtrax]

So you believe it's just bad luck, that it happens every season?

Don't know mate. Sports injuries are particularly complicated. There are a variety of types and a whole host of causes. It's a highly specialised area of medicine that even the experts frequently disagree on.

Don't profess to know what's happening in all our individual cases or why we get so many. But of course many posters on here do

Do know it must be very frustrating to manage a squad racked with injuries.

Started badly this season again but it doesn't involve key players so far.

 

[redwhiteAustrian]

I just believe that, when things occur on a regular basis, we've left the territory of coincidence.

Basically what Wenger said in his post match interview back in 2010, after Ramsey's leg got destroyed by Shawcross.

 

[Makingtrax]

I just believe that, when things occur on a regular basis, we've left the territory of coincidence.

Basically what Wenger said in his post match interview back in 2010, after Ramsey's leg got destroyed by Shawcross.

Of that there's no doubt. In view of the money involved and the experts consulted . . if there was an easy answer it would have been found.

 

[Doom]

The injuries are interesting and worth a bit of attention.

If it is a case of the injuries being caused by Wenger's training methods why did they not manifest in 1996?

If there was some obvious reason I would have though someone would have realised by now the root cause. The club has doctors, physios, fitness coaches and an obsessive manager on the payroll, plus the players themselves have played for other clubs and national teams. That's a lot of experience and opinions.

I read a couple of years ago they club even brought in fitness experts from the NFL to take a look at the Colney set up and found it to be up to spec.

I find it difficult to believe they're all missing something glaringly obvious.

An arguement could be made that Wenger calls the shots and won't listen to expert advice but I don't personally find it plausible. He's a total data anorak and it's hard to square that with him being indifferent to something as key to success as player fitness. Plus, as above, if Wenger is the one causing the injuries why have they only manifested in the later period of his managership?

I could just be that we happened to have for a period a set of players that had sub-optimal bodies, and were also younger and weaker and for want of transfer funds stuck with them in the Emirates era when others would have cut their losses.

As an example of this RVP had a mixed injury record at Man Utd and Fener, and Abou Diaby, alas, is as injured as ever at Marseilles.

While going back the years Liverpool had awful trouble with Owen and Gerrard when they broke through as teenagers.

Though that might also be an argument that Arsenal "ruined" his players bodies before they transferred.

For what it's worth, I've seen tables that puts Newcastle as the most injured team and Man Utd and Arsenal joint worst. But we of course focus on our own woes.

In any case Gavidis said a few months back that our soft-tissue injuries are currently a bit below the prem average so that's something.

 

[Makingtrax]

The injuries are interesting and worth a bit of attention.

If it is a case of the injuries being caused by Wenger's training methods why did they not manifest in 1996?

If there was some obvious reason I would have though someone would have realised by now the root cause. The club has doctors, physios, fitness coaches and an obsessive manager on the payroll, plus the players themselves have played for other clubs and national teams. That's a lot of experience and opinions.

I read a couple of years ago they club even brought in fitness experts from the NFL to take a look at the Colney set up and found it to be up to spec.

I find it difficult to believe they're all missing something glaringly obvious.

An arguement could be made that Wenger calls the shots and won't listen to expert advice but I don't personally find it plausible. He's a total data anorak and it's hard to square that with him being indifferent to something as key to success as player fitness. Plus, as above, if Wenger is the one causing the injuries why have they only manifested in the later period of his managership?

I could just be that we happened to have for a period a set of players that had sub-optimal bodies, and were also younger and weaker and for want of transfer funds stuck with them in the Emirates era when others would have cut their losses.

As an example of this RVP had a mixed injury record at Man Utd and Fener, and Abou Diaby, alas, is as injured as ever at Marseilles.

While going back the years Liverpool had awful trouble with Owen and Gerrard when they broke through as teenagers.

Though that might also be an argument that Arsenal "ruined" his players bodies before they transferred.

For what it's worth, I've seen tables that puts Newcastle as the most injured team and Man Utd and Arsenal joint worst. But we of course focus on our own woes.

In any case Gavidis said a few months back that our soft-tissue injuries are currently a bit below the prem average so that's something.

Sound logic as always. Like the matches themselves injuries are very complex and involve a lot of variables. Man C, ManU, Liverpool and Arsenal all failed to control those variables last season.

These clubs have huge resources and to even suggest that Leicester, who had hardly any injuries last season, have more advanced ideas (someone on here posted about seaweed ) and better facilities is quite frankly a joke. One bad tackle on Vardy, or pushing him into the Norwich camera pit, would have rewritten history.

 

[say yes]

You can't blame Wenger for players getting injured (even Sanchez last year I thought was harsh).

Much better line of attack would be that he has relied too much in the past upon players known to be injury prone, but given some of the talent these guys have (Van Persie, Wilshere, Ramsey etc) it's hard to blame him too much for that either.

Think the club have actually addressed the injury problems somewhat in the last few years - our record has improved markedly.

 

[Penn_]

So you believe it's just bad luck, that it happens every season?

Some of it has to be bad luck though, surely?

Not sure about recently but I remember a time when we seemed to be getting a leg break every year.

Cazorla’s and Coq's knee injuries last year are probably also defendable, unless mental fatigue was a factor.

Things like Ramsey, and Cesc's , all those years ago continued muscle injuries though definitely aren't bad luck though.

 

[Gooner Zig]

Sorry we're talking about a manager who knowingly sends injured players back onto the field - see Ramsey vs Liverpool, opening day this season.

There is luck involved, but a lot of it rests on poor management.

 

[Makingtrax]

Sorry we're talking about a manager who knowingly sends injured players back onto the field - see Ramsey vs Liverpool, opening day this season.

There is luck involved, but a lot of it rests on poor management.

 

[FreakySami]

I'm pretty sure Ramsey would need to have some intense preseason routine to get him not to have as many injuries and play as well as he did 3 years ago.

That's about it. I think people touched on it very well. We need good players for every position so that we cab compete on all fronts. We need our b team to win fa cup/ Carling cup/ premier league games against most teams so that we cab have a good rotation.

If the secondary players cannot deliver then nothing will work as planned and players well be overplayed

 

[Gooner Zig]

Rotation has never really been a strong point for Arsène. Remember at the back end of the 13/14 season when we won 8 games in row - we selected the same XI throughout.

 

[James Bond]

It’s (the defeat was) due to two reasons especially. One was that Aaron Ramsey came back on to the pitch not exactly the same. We knew he had a hamstring problem and our half-time was disturbed by injury problems,’ he said.

‘We got caught cold in the first 15 minutes of the second half physically because Aaron was injured and Alex Iwobi was injured, so we were very diminished. I think we made one or two mistakes at the back that we are not used to making.’

Yet "bad luck" is touted year after year.

http://metro.co.uk/2016/08/19/Arsèn...jury-against-liverpool-6079289/#ixzz4MhnRTq8q

 

[RUS arsenal]

Yet "bad luck" is touted year after year.

http://metro.co.uk/2016/08/19/Arsèn...jury-against-liverpool-6079289/#ixzz4MhnRTq8q

Terrible journalism that. Sensationalism at its ugliest. Ramsey was fine before the game and felt a slight "niggle" at halftime. A lot of the squad wasn't ready because of the Euros so the bench was poor and it was probably Ramsey's choice to try to keep playing. If players paid attention to every niggle then probably half the team would have to be substituted by the end of every game.

 

[redwhiteAustrian]

Terrible journalism that. Sensationalism at its ugliest. Ramsey was fine before the game and felt a slight "niggle" at halftime. A lot of the squad wasn't ready because of the Euros so the bench was poor and it was probably Ramsey's choice to try to keep playing. If players paid attention to every niggle then probably half the team would have to be substituted by the end of every game.

We haven't been the only club that had players at the EC, though.

 

[RUS arsenal]

We haven't been the only club that had players at the EC, though.

We had a few key players that played in the final and others like Ramsey whose teams went pretty far. Even Alexis went to the finals with Chile in the summer. Admittedly we also don't have as deep of a squad as some of the other clubs with larger pockets.

 

[redwhiteAustrian]

I partly agree, but that still doesn't excuse the fact how awfully prepared we were, when the season started.

 

[Highbury Rock City]

Eh, **** it, I want a change either way. I think I've said this before, but even if Arsène leads us to a major title this season, it's time for a new manager at this club.

But it's also really important that the transition goes smoothly. Cannot accept a ****-storm like at Manu. If there isn't any suitable at the time, let Arsène sit around.