Arteta and Edu Transfer Targets: Summer 2020

[Dial Square 1886]

Never. And it's not his fault. It's a thing clubs need to take into account when they sign him or similar players, but it's never the players fault.

Ages ago I posted a study on how injuries during the physical growth phase, which can last iirc up to the age of 23/24, mostly have lasting impacts on bones, muscles and ligaments and how the follow up issues need to be managed very carefully or the players are in danger of chronic aches. This does concern any injury at any age really, as I remember posting something of the like about Emil Forsberg and his continuous groin issues which were on the verge of becoming chronic a few years ago, but the danger of these issues becoming chronic is far higher if you sustain the first injury while you're growing, and the treatment/management of these injuries and the possible fallout isn't managed well. And I think at Arsenal fans have seen too many of these. Ramsey got his leg broken at age 20. Diaby got his first serious ankle injury aged 19. Wilshere was 19 for his first serious injury, too. All of them suffered from subsequent injuries in the same areas. Fabregas might be another one who has maybe never suffered a massive injury during his youth, but a lot of of them, and whose career has been cut rather short, declining at the early age of about 30. The professionalization of sports and football especially, meaning kids get to play at higher levels earlier, thus need to perform to higher physical standards and are more prone to injury, means a higher health risk. Basically, a 18 or 19 or even 20 year old is physically not meant to perform as a high end athlete at the highest level and any serious injury sustained in the physical growth period can or will have lasting effects on your physical apparatus and thus your career. And there's examples in other sports and accounts by athletes from other sports which back this.

Good stuff.

I follow loads of sports and one thing I always think is missed as an attribute when considering elite level athletes is resilience to injury.

A superstar player is about as much use to his/her club as me if they can't get off the treatment table.

Players like Wilshere/Ramsey/Diaby/Rosicky (all Arsenal players!) are prime examples of super talents, who lacked the physical attributes to really excel over long periods of time.

You can call it luck and sometimes it is, but I would also include body type/resistance to injury as part and parcel of being elite.

Look at the two kings of the last generation CR7 and that little fella at Barca and baring a few bits here and there, they have put together long injury free stretches. On paper, very different body types as well, but both well suited to the rigours of pro football.

Our club has not been great at identifying these types of players, in fact it sometimes seems we go the other way, with those listed above, plus the likes of Bellerin, Holding, Chambers, Welbeck and now even Tierney seemingly injured more than they are available.

 

[El Duderino]

Don't follow the guy and loathed his Bond song, but that one strikes a chord with me

Was his song Spectre? Because Radiohead's song that didn't make the cut was much, much better.

 

[<<reed>>]

Hope Ramsey does an Özil and milks the pasta bastards till the end of his fat contract.

 

[Flying Okapis]

Hope Ramsey does an Özil and milks the pasta bastards till the end of his fat contract.

He will, well I'd be surprised if he didnt, I fully expect Ramsey to see out the length of his contract there and wouldnt blame him one bit.

Ramsey had a long drawn out contract saga here so I cant see him being too willing to go into another so soon.

He is not getting 300k anywhere else, Juve are also going to win titles during his time there. Yes yes, I know Inter and Lazio are putting in a challenge but I still expect them to win it.

Life is a lot better there than at Everton or even back at Arsenal..

 

[Toby]

Was his song Spectre? Because Radiohead's song that didn't make the cut was much, much better.

I think so. Need to listen to that Radiohead Song.

 

[Toby]

Good stuff.

I follow loads of sports and one thing I always think is missed as an attribute when considering elite level athletes is resilience to injury.

A superstar player is about as much use to his/her club as me if they can't get off the treatment table.

Players like Wilshere/Ramsey/Diaby/Rosicky (all Arsenal players!) are prime examples of super talents, who lacked the physical attributes to really excel over long periods of time.

You can call it luck and sometimes it is, but I would also include body type/resistance to injury as part and parcel of being elite.

Look at the two kings of the last generation CR7 and that little fella at Barca and baring a few bits here and there, they have put together long injury free stretches. On paper, very different body types as well, but both well suited to the rigours of pro football.

Our club has not been great at identifying these types of players, in fact it sometimes seems we go the other way, with those listed above, plus the likes of Bellerin, Holding, Chambers, Welbeck and now even Tierney seemingly injured more than they are available.

It's not really a type though. It's fitness and how you train in all its complexity including nutrition, injury record, injury treatment and luck. There's not a resilient type. If Messi had his leg got snapped in half at 20 I guarantee you his career would have looked different due to subsequent fallout injuries.

 

[Penn_]

The only way Ramsey would happen is if Juve wanted Özil.

 

[Red London]

Hope Ramsey does an Özil and milks the pasta bastards till the end of his fat contract.

 

[bingobob]

see some links to Edouard.

 

[Zazu]

see some links to Edouard.

Would like to see him have a year or two at an Everton or west ham before we make a move, but I guess if we do that then it runs the risk of him exploding and moving beyond our price range.

 

[The_Playmaker]

see some links to Edouard.

Me too.

Ben wishlisting this guy. We need to get him now and develop him for a year alongside using one of Auba or Laca.

 

[pigge]

Only a matter of time before the Arsenal rumors start. Should reopen the Ramsey thread in preparation.

Kind of expected. Cant believe People thought he was all that.

 

[Zazu]

Me too.

Ben wishlisting this guy. We need to get him now and develop him for a year alongside using one of Auba or Laca.

This could work pretty well as he's comfortable playing left-wing, has the dribbling and passing ability for it.

 

[Malky]

see some links to Edouard.

I'd have him here as a Laca replacement.
Seen some saying he needs a season at an Everton or West Ham to basically prove himself, but if he goes to them and tears it up like the SPL then it'll be another Van Dijk scenario, and out our budget.
We should take the risk when he could be available at sensible money.

 

[Goonger]

see some links to Edouard.

Whats your thoughts Bingobob, how does he compare to someone like Moussa Dembele in your opinion after watching both first hand?

 

[Zazu]

Whats your thoughts Bingobob, how does he compare to someone like Moussa Dembele in your opinion after watching both first hand?

I'm not a Celtic fan so Bingobob etc. will know better, but I watch a lot of Scottish football and have seen both in the flesh a good few times.

IMO, Dembele is more of a traditional number 9 than Edouard, a bit stronger and more aggressive but can only really play up front. Whereas Edouard is more versatile, can play out wide, and when playing up front by himself in a 4-2-3-1, will still often come deep and drift into the inside-left position. Edouard probably has a better first touch, dribbling and passing than Dembele so would be more useful in build-up play. His attacking movement, both in terms of creating space for others and getting in behind, is really effective and I can see a manager like Arteta making great use of that while also hopefully bringing it up a level.

 

[The_Playmaker]

I'm not a Celtic fan so Bingobob etc. will know better, but I watch a lot of Scottish football and have seen both in the flesh a good few times.

IMO, Dembele is more of a traditional number 9 than Edouard, a bit stronger and more aggressive but can only really play up front. Whereas Edouard is more versatile, can play out wide, and when playing up front by himself in a 4-2-3-1, will still often come deep and drift into the inside-left position. Edouard probably has a better first touch, dribbling and passing than Dembele so would be more useful in build-up play. His attacking movement, both in terms of creating space for others and getting in behind, is really effective and I can see a manager like Arteta making great use of that while also hopefully bringing it up a level.

I'd agree with that assessment. Seen alot more of Dembele than I have Edouard but I like Edouards physique for the number 9. He seems more agile and is much quicker with and without the ball. Dembele is more heavy footed. More like Laca, and although I think he will score goals, he literally won't assist any. Edouard can drift all over the front line.

Would love this signing along with Papa Gueye and Gabriel to sort out quite a few problem positions. I still feel we need a creative midfielder with high technical ability in the centre of the pitch.

 

[Red London]

Would like to see him have a year or two at an Everton or west ham before we make a move, but I guess if we do that then it runs the risk of him exploding and moving beyond our price range.

In the current climate if he joins a team like that then you literally cross him off from joining Arsenal. This isnt 2010, these sides are making a lot of money and aren't forced to sell. Look at the prices going round. Maguire 80, West ham asking for 60 for Diop, Richarlison 100m being rejected, Zaha having a 60-70m price tag, Watford wanting like 40m+ for Doucoure...

If we want a talented player we have to sign him now. Any established or super talented player in the PL is basically out of our price range, unless we make it our marquee signing of the window.

 

[A_G]

Poll finished, A-M agree that @GDeep™ is a drama queen. New poll up.

 

[TornadoTed]

In the current climate if he joins a team like that then you literally cross him off from joining Arsenal. This isnt 2010, these sides are making a lot of money and aren't forced to sell. Look at the prices going round. Maguire 80, West ham asking for 60 for Diop, Richarlison 100m being rejected, Zaha having a 60-70m price tag, Watford wanting like 40m+ for Doucoure...

If we want a talented player we have to sign him now. Any established or super talented player in the PL is basically out of our price range, unless we make it our marquee signing of the window.

I've been banging this drum for a while now. Just a few examples I can think of off the top of my head,

Maddison £20m from Norwich to Leicester, now valued at £80m+
Ndidi £17m from Genk to Leicester, now valued at £60m+
Dembele £20m from Celtic to Lyon, now valued at £60m+

We could have spent £57m and now have 3 players worth £200m+ Spotting these type of players just before they are going to explode is the route to getting back to the top in my opinion.