OFFICIAL Ben White

Worse Deal?

  • Ben White for £50m

  • Harry Maguire for £80m


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Barry

Well-Known Member
I think you have to be careful with stats with defenders. For example even though it pains me to say it take one of the best central defensive partnerships of the last 20 years, Ferdinand and Vidic. I don't have stats but going from memory I would imagine Ferdinand had pretty poor aerial stats as Vidic was the one who attacked most things that came in the air. And vice versa I bet Vidic's distribution and passing stats weren't that great as that was where Ferdinand excelled.

I haven't seen Ben White or Brighton enough to really judge but central defence is all about a partnership and he doesn't necessarily need to be a beast in the air if his partner excels at that. Gabriel and Mari are both good in the air so partnered with either he could be absolutely fine.
Yeah, I think this is a really good point. Mustafi for example always put up strong, sometimes elite defensive numbers but lacked the intangibles and positioning to back it up with. I suppose stats are just one of the tools that fans have now to assess potential transfers without seeing lots and lots of a player live.

There's definitely something about White - it's not just Southgate who has rated him highly but lots of other commentators as well. I think it's the price that people are anxious about along with the fact that we have a lot of decent talent at CB already. It's that nagging question that he might not be better than what we already have / would the money be better invested elsewhere?
 

OnlyOne

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Yeah, I think this is a really good point. Mustafi for example always put up strong, sometimes elite defensive numbers but lacked the intangibles and positioning to back it up with. I suppose stats are just one of the tools that fans have now to assess potential transfers without seeing lots and lots of a player live.

There's definitely something about White - it's not just Southgate who has rated him highly but lots of other commentators as well. I think it's the price that people are anxious about along with the fact that we have a lot of decent talent at CB already. It's that nagging question that he might not be better than what we already have / would the money be better invested elsewhere?

It's more just Saliba though, really. Rob Holding, as an option is great, but to break the move forward we need a guy like White to be able to use the ball. Atm our RCB is weak.

It's funny because everyone I work with support anyone but Arsenal, and they all agree we need another CB, CM and that Neves would be a great signing. It's only Arsenal fans that think we're fine at CB, even I did tbh.
 

HairSprayGooners

My brother posted it ⏩
He doesn't really seem to excel in any stat, though. I don't know him very well, looked like an interesting prospect at Leeds, but hasn't really caught my eye at Brighton this season to be honest.

He excels in interceptions. Which for me means his reading of the game is excellent.
 

MikelHadADream

Well-Known Member
Warming to this. England International CB, room for growth, rapid and immense on the ball. I'm hoping we go with White/Saliba/Gabriel/Holding as the CBs next season, with Chambers as emergency cover (maximise the home grown quota), although realistically Mari will still be about.
 

Finesse

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I am a bit perplexed by the mixed reactions on here regarding the interest in Ben White. Have anyone really watched him play before the interest to understand his game? We may have Holding , Chambers , Gabby , Saliba and Mari as things stand but quantity is not quality. We have greatly improved as a team defensively and most of our attacks is build up from the back. At one stage, Luis was our most important CB from a tactical point of view. He was able to play from the back , initiate the passing to draw opponents and beat the press to create an outlet for the forwards to run into the opponents half. We were our most potent with Luis in the team in terms of creativity on the ball to find KT with diagonals or passes into feet deep into the opponents half. Those moves vanished with Luis' injury. With Luis gone we have numbers and no replacement. This is what we should focus on. Continuity and bringing in a player with proven PL experience who can play on the right side of the CB role and be the focal point of the possession play from the back.

Non of our players can match Ben's pure mastery of that role. Our best defenders in Rob and Gabby can defend all day long , but pretty poor and laboured in possession , shaky in build up play , ponderous in attracting and beating the press intelligently. We have enough defenders who can defend , now we need players who can bring in what the likes of Dias , VVD , Laporte , Stones bring into the game from a progressive standpoint. This is a mainstay of our game and he is young and PL proven. He is within Arsenal's price bracket if we really want to invest as we have been mouthing off . He is English and that comes with that premium. The same premium Saka , ESR will carry if anyone made an inquiry.

Just out of interest why is spending 40M on a defender causing a stir ? How much are the clubs we hope to compete with for top 4 spending on defenders?
 

OnlyOne

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I am a bit perplexed by the mixed reactions on here regarding the interest in Ben White. Have anyone really watched him play before the interest to understand his game? We may have Holding , Chambers , Gabby , Saliba and Mari as things stand but quantity is not quality. We have greatly improved as a team defensively and most of our attacks is build up from the back. At one stage, Luis was our most important CB from a tactical point of view. He was able to play from the back , initiate the passing to draw opponents and beat the press to create an outlet for the forwards to run into the opponents half. We were our most potent with Luis in the team in terms of creativity on the ball to find KT with diagonals or passes into feet deep into the opponents half. Those moves vanished with Luis' injury. With Luis gone we have numbers and no replacement. This is what we should focus on. Continuity and bringing in a player with proven PL experience who can play on the right side of the CB role and be the focal point of the possession play from the back.

Non of our players can match Ben's pure mastery of that role. Our best defenders in Rob and Gabby can defend all day long , but pretty poor and laboured in possession , shaky in build up play , ponderous in attracting and beating the press intelligently. We have enough defenders who can defend , now we need players who can bring in what the likes of Dias , VVD , Laporte , Stones bring into the game from a progressive standpoint. This is a mainstay of our game and he is young and PL proven. He is within Arsenal's price bracket if we really want to invest as we have been mouthing off . He is English and that comes with that premium. The same premium Saka , ESR will carry if anyone made an inquiry.

Just out of interest why is spending 40M on a defender causing a stir ? How much are the clubs we hope to compete with for top 4 spending on defenders?

The reason it causes a stir is because like myself I used to think just use Saliba he's a £30M player who has been seriously good on loan and seen his defensive partner Fofana move to the PL and kill it here. I think it's believed that we already have a ready-made, ball-playing CB to take over from Holding and the £40M should be used elsewhere.

That being said, if Saliba doesn't do well like we hope we're back to square one where our primary CB isn't good with the ball at his feet and it kills a lot of our play. People just want to see Saliba get a fair crack at nailing a starting postion, but in terms of squad building White is a great addition, he elevates us from the off and has bags of potential.

Issue is, if we do end up paying 45/50M and we miss out on other more important targets, CM, CAM + Full back we probably are worse off. Buying White and still investing is those positions are the ideal outcome. I don't think signing White will stop Saliba's career as much as people think, both are very comfortable on the left.
 

yousif_arsenal

King of Twitter Rumours
Moderator
Spending 40m on cb despite need to spend over 50m on midfielders that explains money is available and look like we confident alot of players will be going.

We all making quick judge on Saliba he is still here have 3 years contract and will play the pre-season not the time to be worried yet.
 

Finesse

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The reason it causes a stir is because like myself I used to think just use Saliba he's a £30M player who has been seriously good on loan and seen his defensive partner Fofana move to the PL and kill it here. I think it's believed that we already have a ready-made, ball-playing CB to take over from Holding and the £40M should be used elsewhere.

That being said, if Saliba doesn't do well like we hope we're back to square one where our primary CB isn't good with the ball at his feet and it kills a lot of our play. People just want to see Saliba get a fair crack at nailing a starting postion, but in terms of squad building White is a great addition, he elevates us from the off and has bags of potential.

Issue is, if we do end up paying 45/50M and we miss out on other more important targets, CM, CAM + Full back we probably are worse off. Buying White and still investing is those positions are the ideal outcome. I don't think signing White will stop Saliba's career as much as people think, both are very comfortable on the left.

There is hope in Saliba. He will get his time and it will be a process. Like you rightly stated if it does not work , we are back to square one. Even if it works with him , what happens when Saliba picks up an injury? Either way we want to be prepared square one does not catch us mid season with no options. That is why Ben is important. Having 2 young ball playing CB is good for the team. 2 ball playing CB for the right side and 2 more defensive inclined CB on the left side.
 

Dutch D

Well-Known Member & FPL Champion 19/20
Interceptions per 90 minutes
Konstantinos Mavropanos – 3.6
Ben White – 1.7
William Saliba – 1.3
Gabriel – 1.2
Calum Chambers – 1.2
Pablo Mari – 0.9
Rob Holding – 0.8
He excels in interceptions. Which for me means his reading of the game is excellent.
Barry showed an overview of stats between our players and Ben White. Barely excels in any of the stats and even 1.7 isn't thát high, but better than our defenders admittedly.
 

SingmeasongSong

Right Sometimes
He's had a massive half season after recovering from injury. Last year he did well too, albeit in a lower league. He's not a ball playing CB, but could see him working next to Mari or Saliba really well.
I think the problem is that you can only keep one of him or Saliba - he probably loses out from being the lesser talent. It's a big call between them though. I just hope we don't end up losing both

Mavropanos passing stats are flawed anyways, you are always going to have waaaayyy ****tier pass completion for Stuttgart as you've got dor Arsenal
 

HairSprayGooners

My brother posted it ⏩
Barry showed an overview of stats between our players and Ben White. Barely excels in any of the stats and even 1.7 isn't thát high, but better than our defenders admittedly.

The problem is he's in a back 3 at Brighton, you can't really trust the stats when he's going to be in a back 4 here. We all know in a back 3 you get far more protection as a CB.

In a back 4 for Leeds his intercepting stats in the championship were incredible. The fact Biesla wanted him back is a big deal, he's honestly brilliant.
 

El Duderino

99 Problems But A Mitch Ain't One
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The problem is he's in a back 3 at Brighton, you can't really trust the stats when he's going to be in a back 4 here. We all know in a back 3 you get far more protection as a CB.

In a back 4 for Leeds his intercepting stats in the championship were incredible. The fact Biesla wanted him back is a big deal, he's honestly brilliant.

Not that I'm against this, mind. But weren't those stats for the championship?

The three at the back thing doesn't inspire me a lot, might be spelling a revert to the system for next season.

Hopefully Chambers and Holding go if that's the case. Could bring a decent amount of money for both if that's the case.
 

HairSprayGooners

My brother posted it ⏩
Not that I'm against this, mind. But weren't those stats for the championship?

The three at the back thing doesn't inspire me a lot, might be spelling a revert to the system for next season.

Hopefully Chambers and Holding go if that's the case. Could bring a decent amount of money for both if that's the case.

No chance in hell we go back to 3 at the back.
 

HairSprayGooners

My brother posted it ⏩
Unless we move Chambers and Holding out, there's too may cooks on that particular kitchen.

Plus, Cedric is hardly going anywhere and we're bringing a right back in.

I class Chambers as a backup right back. If a good enough offer for Holding came in I'm fairly certain we'd take it tbf. But 5 CB's isn't really overkill either way.
 

Barry

Well-Known Member
It's more just Saliba though, really. Rob Holding, as an option is great, but to break the move forward we need a guy like White to be able to use the ball. Atm our RCB is weak.

I think that's probably what the thinking is yeah. And if there is conviction to a certain style of play and Arteta/ Edu reckon we need these skills at the back then that's fine I guess. Just seems a bit strange when White isn't currently top class and we have Mavro, Saliba, Ballard and McGuiness all as options coming through. I could get behind this one though, as long as we invest elsewhere as well.
 

Kysus

Well-Known Member
I am a bit perplexed by the mixed reactions on here regarding the interest in Ben White. Have anyone really watched him play before the interest to understand his game? We may have Holding , Chambers , Gabby , Saliba and Mari as things stand but quantity is not quality. We have greatly improved as a team defensively and most of our attacks is build up from the back. At one stage, Luis was our most important CB from a tactical point of view. He was able to play from the back , initiate the passing to draw opponents and beat the press to create an outlet for the forwards to run into the opponents half. We were our most potent with Luis in the team in terms of creativity on the ball to find KT with diagonals or passes into feet deep into the opponents half. Those moves vanished with Luis' injury. With Luis gone we have numbers and no replacement. This is what we should focus on. Continuity and bringing in a player with proven PL experience who can play on the right side of the CB role and be the focal point of the possession play from the back.

Non of our players can match Ben's pure mastery of that role. Our best defenders in Rob and Gabby can defend all day long , but pretty poor and laboured in possession , shaky in build up play , ponderous in attracting and beating the press intelligently. We have enough defenders who can defend , now we need players who can bring in what the likes of Dias , VVD , Laporte , Stones bring into the game from a progressive standpoint. This is a mainstay of our game and he is young and PL proven. He is within Arsenal's price bracket if we really want to invest as we have been mouthing off . He is English and that comes with that premium. The same premium Saka , ESR will carry if anyone made an inquiry.

Just out of interest why is spending 40M on a defender causing a stir ? How much are the clubs we hope to compete with for top 4 spending on defenders?
Spot on.
When Luiz was out we were forced to drop Xhaka into CB in buildup ALL THE TIME.
For a team looking to build from the back we just need better on the ball than we have right now.

When I was watching PSG against City(1st half 1st leg) I was crying seeing Marquinos/Verrati play it out quickly under pressure with such ease, remembering that on the weekend i would be back to watching Holding and Xhaka.
 

Lebron

Member
I am a bit perplexed by the mixed reactions on here regarding the interest in Ben White. Have anyone really watched him play before the interest to understand his game? We may have Holding , Chambers , Gabby , Saliba and Mari as things stand but quantity is not quality. We have greatly improved as a team defensively and most of our attacks is build up from the back. At one stage, Luis was our most important CB from a tactical point of view. He was able to play from the back , initiate the passing to draw opponents and beat the press to create an outlet for the forwards to run into the opponents half. We were our most potent with Luis in the team in terms of creativity on the ball to find KT with diagonals or passes into feet deep into the opponents half. Those moves vanished with Luis' injury. With Luis gone we have numbers and no replacement. This is what we should focus on. Continuity and bringing in a player with proven PL experience who can play on the right side of the CB role and be the focal point of the possession play from the back.

Non of our players can match Ben's pure mastery of that role. Our best defenders in Rob and Gabby can defend all day long , but pretty poor and laboured in possession , shaky in build up play , ponderous in attracting and beating the press intelligently. We have enough defenders who can defend , now we need players who can bring in what the likes of Dias , VVD , Laporte , Stones bring into the game from a progressive standpoint. This is a mainstay of our game and he is young and PL proven. He is within Arsenal's price bracket if we really want to invest as we have been mouthing off . He is English and that comes with that premium. The same premium Saka , ESR will carry if anyone made an inquiry.

Just out of interest why is spending 40M on a defender causing a stir ? How much are the clubs we hope to compete with for top 4 spending on defenders?
100% this. You know what happens when we play teams who sit back against us? They ALWAYS isolate our RCB not our LCB because of the threat of Tierney being released.
Do you guys want to watch games of Holding being our main playmaker? I know I DO NOT. My eyes burn when I see this I’m serious lol

B.White is premier league adapted, young, skilled on the ball and used to playing in a team on the front foot going 100 miles an hour! Don’t worry about Saliba, if he’s good he can partner White or take his place.
 
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