OFFICIAL Ben White

Worse Deal?

  • Ben White for £50m

  • Harry Maguire for £80m


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Sebastes

Statbomb Merchant
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I am a bit perplexed by the mixed reactions on here regarding the interest in Ben White. Have anyone really watched him play before the interest to understand his game? We may have Holding , Chambers , Gabby , Saliba and Mari as things stand but quantity is not quality. We have greatly improved as a team defensively and most of our attacks is build up from the back. At one stage, Luis was our most important CB from a tactical point of view. He was able to play from the back , initiate the passing to draw opponents and beat the press to create an outlet for the forwards to run into the opponents half. We were our most potent with Luis in the team in terms of creativity on the ball to find KT with diagonals or passes into feet deep into the opponents half. Those moves vanished with Luis' injury. With Luis gone we have numbers and no replacement. This is what we should focus on. Continuity and bringing in a player with proven PL experience who can play on the right side of the CB role and be the focal point of the possession play from the back.

Non of our players can match Ben's pure mastery of that role. Our best defenders in Rob and Gabby can defend all day long , but pretty poor and laboured in possession , shaky in build up play , ponderous in attracting and beating the press intelligently. We have enough defenders who can defend , now we need players who can bring in what the likes of Dias , VVD , Laporte , Stones bring into the game from a progressive standpoint. This is a mainstay of our game and he is young and PL proven. He is within Arsenal's price bracket if we really want to invest as we have been mouthing off . He is English and that comes with that premium. The same premium Saka , ESR will carry if anyone made an inquiry.

Just out of interest why is spending 40M on a defender causing a stir ? How much are the clubs we hope to compete with for top 4 spending on defenders?
1623767838984.png

So Holding, Saliba and White walks into a bar. Guess who has the (by far) worst passing stats

1623767628814.png1623767661980.png1623767714718.png
 

Finesse

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Football and basketball are the two sport I follow closest and too many analytics and nerds have taken over the sport trying to dictate every aspect of these sports. But there are certain things that you cant change. The suns swept the nuggets in nba with Paul and Booker hitting mid range shots. Same shots analytics been trying to move away from. Giannis and Embiid brought back the big man which they tried to move from. But it turns out you cant defend against it.

With football we have same people trying to move away from certain things, but you cant put price ona CB who is great in the air and what he brings to defence and attack. you cant put price on really quick wide player who can beat players because he will disrupt any defence you set up and once he beats his man he opens you up. Arteta is sadly part of the new generation of coaches who think he can pre plan every step of a football match. But he was clearly outperformed by a manager who has the opposite approach in Ole who believes in simplicity and football is about putting your best attackers in best position and just defend. As long as a CB is quick, reads the game well and good in the air he is good.

As far as big tall DM being redundant means in todays football Petit would not fit in. But someone like Guendouzzi who the analytic love would be great. This is some bullsh1t and nothing more than some nerds trying to calculate everything in football.

Apart from your love for basketball and why you think Arteta was outperformed you still did not address the points I raised.
 

djflick

Transfer Denialist
He is in London right now. We can get this done very quickly if thats what we want.
Very much doubt Southgate would allow him to leave the team bubble. We dont need the player to be in the same country to conclude a deal anyway
 

HairSprayGooners

My brother posted it ⏩
View attachment 3309

So Holding, Saliba and White walks into a bar. Guess who has the (by far) worst passing stats

View attachment 3306View attachment 3307View attachment 3308

You're comparing a guy who plays for Brighton in a back 3 against a guy who plays in ligue 1... against a guy who plays for Arsenal who have the ball 90% of the team in games.

Looking at stats is skewed.

White is probably on the same level as Holding in terms of passing, i don't expect a CB to be elite in that department anyway. In terms of individual player traits White is far superior. Slicker on the ball, way more agile, doesn't turn like a dumpster and doesn't dither.
 

Blaziken

Well-Known Member
Would be a decent addition to our team. Was against at first because he isn't even Brightons best cb but he will improve by experience and is very agile and looks comfortable with the ball. If we are willing to spend £35-50m then its obvious that we have more money available this summer, and even if we have the 3 best defence in the league its clear that our build up play is ****.
 

Trilly

Full-Time Respecter Of Women
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Going from Leno and Holding to Onana and White would improve our build up massively.
If we've got the money then let's go for it.

Playing out from the back is a good example of only being as strong as your weakest link. No point of Signing Onana like you said if Holding and Bellerin are still black holes in possession. I don't think some realise just how many attacks are ruined by our right side.

The team can go up a level - despite Arteta's influence - if everybody in the back six is comfortable on the ball. Signing this guy (or integrating Saliba) makes that happen, it also reduces reliance on having a Xhaka type and increases the variety of our build up.

Really exciting stuff tbh, shame about the guy in my avi.
 

GunnerShy

Well-Known Member
You're comparing a guy who plays for Brighton in a back 3 against a guy who plays in ligue 1... against a guy who plays for Arsenal who have the ball 90% of the team in games.

Looking at stats is skewed.

White is probably on the same level as Holding in terms of passing, i don't expect a CB to be elite in that department anyway. In terms of individual player traits White is far superior. Slicker on the ball, way more agile, doesn't turn like a dumpster and doesn't dither.
Arsenal 52.7% v Brighton 50.7% possession according to whoscored.com

Worth busting the myth that we are a big club who hog possession. That was a trait of the Wenger Arsenal team but definitely not this team.
 

OnlyOne

Who Mods the Mods?
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The reason it causes a stir is because like myself I used to think just use Saliba he's a £30M player who has been seriously good on loan and seen his defensive partner Fofana move to the PL and kill it here. I think it's believed that we already have a ready-made, ball-playing CB to take over from Holding and the £40M should be used elsewhere.

That being said, if Saliba doesn't do well like we hope we're back to square one where our primary CB isn't good with the ball at his feet and it kills a lot of our play. People just want to see Saliba get a fair crack at nailing a starting postion, but in terms of squad building White is a great addition, he elevates us from the off and has bags of potential.

Issue is, if we do end up paying 45/50M and we miss out on other more important targets, CM, CAM + Full back we probably are worse off. Buying White and still investing is those positions are the ideal outcome. I don't think signing White will stop Saliba's career as much as people think, both are very comfortable on the left.

This is seriously good posting btw, for those who are wanting to make a name for themselves on the forum this kinda pod my does that.
 

MikelHadADream

Well-Known Member
If we've got the money then let's go for it.

Playing out from the back is a good example of only being as strong as your weakest link. No point of Signing Onana like you said if Holding and Bellerin are still black holes in possession. I don't think some realise just how many attacks are ruined by our right side.

The team can go up a level - despite Arteta's influence - if everybody in the back six is comfortable on the ball. Signing this guy (or integrating Saliba) makes that happen, it also reduces reliance on having a Xhaka type and increases the variety of our build up.

Really exciting stuff tbh, shame about the guy in my avi.

Agreed. I'm really not comfortable with the thought of Holding being arguably first choice CB next season next to Gabriel, he just isn't good enough if we want to push up the league. I want to see Saliba given chances, but I do understand why maybe the club wouldn't want to make him first choice yet either. White is HG, knows the league, fast and excellent on the ball, so there is room for him to grow. I'd be good with White/Gabriel/Saliba as the main three CBs.

To be fair I think build up under Arteta isn't that bad, even with guys like Holding/Bellerin ect, but obviously it will go up a level with better technical players there. I feel our problems under him have been a lack of fluidity in the fluidity/quality in the final third, which much be addressed next season.
 

Sebastes

Statbomb Merchant
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You're comparing a guy who plays for Brighton in a back 3 against a guy who plays in ligue 1... against a guy who plays for Arsenal who have the ball 90% of the team in games.

Looking at stats is skewed.

White is probably on the same level as Holding in terms of passing, i don't expect a CB to be elite in that department anyway. In terms of individual player traits White is far superior. Slicker on the ball, way more agile, doesn't turn like a dumpster and doesn't dither.
Yes and likewise you're pushing White's interception stats without mentioning the context of the system they play in. And to be fair Brighton isn't far off us in possession.

Stats can ofc be skewed, and White does play a higher ratio of passes under pressure as well as a higher ratio of progressive distance, but not enough to account for the gap in quality and success rates imo. He's actually really poor in terms of pass success rate - which is a pretty comparable stat. Holding has a lot better precision in all types of passes.

The core of the argument however is that saying that we have no players close to the mastery of White when we have Saliba - who's actually much better than Luiz - is just laughable.
 

HairSprayGooners

My brother posted it ⏩
Yes and likewise you're pushing White's interception stats without mentioning the context of the system they play in. And to be fair Brighton isn't far off us in possession.

Stats can ofc be skewed, and White does play a higher ratio of passes under pressure as well as a higher ratio of progressive distance, but not enough to account for the gap in quality and success rates imo. He's actually really poor in terms of pass success rate - which is a pretty comparable stat. Holding has a lot better precision in all types of passes.

The core of the argument however is that saying that we have no players close to the mastery of White when we have Saliba - who's actually much better than Luiz - is just laughable.

You simply can't sit there and say Saliba is better than Luiz. What is that based on? Because he hasn't set foot in the premier league yet.

I can guarantee you over the course of a season Luiz would be better in the premier league than Saliba right now. Saliba maybe be better in 2 or 3 years, but not now.

Saliba isn't better than White either atm, hell we don't even know if he's better than Holding.
 

Sebastes

Statbomb Merchant
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You simply can't sit there and say Saliba is better than Luiz. What is that based on? Because he hasn't set foot in the premier league yet.

I can guarantee you over the course of a season Luiz would be better in the premier league than Saliba right now. Saliba maybe be better in 2 or 3 years, but not now.

Saliba isn't better than White either atm, hell we don't even know if he's better than Holding.
So how can you say White is better than Saliba?
 

HairSprayGooners

My brother posted it ⏩
So how can you say White is better than Saliba?

You got me there hahaha. For him it would be that he played a season in the prem and was probably Leeds best player, or at least top 3 when getting promoted.

Don't get me wrong I'd like Saliba to be given a chance, but White excites me for the now, I think he's ready to go whereas Saliba is a big what if.
 

Finesse

Well-Known Member
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Yes and likewise you're pushing White's interception stats without mentioning the context of the system they play in. And to be fair Brighton isn't far off us in possession.

Stats can ofc be skewed, and White does play a higher ratio of passes under pressure as well as a higher ratio of progressive distance, but not enough to account for the gap in quality and success rates imo. He's actually really poor in terms of pass success rate - which is a pretty comparable stat. Holding has a lot better precision in all types of passes.

The core of the argument however is that saying that we have no players close to the mastery of White when we have Saliba - who's actually much better than Luiz - is just laughable.
Saliba is yet to ply his trade here. Wait until he does. Then what you are stating above might be considered.
 
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