OFFICIAL Ben White

Worse Deal?

  • Ben White for £50m

  • Harry Maguire for £80m


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Monstar-Gunn4r

Well-Known Member
Athletic released an article going through Ben White as an option for Arsenal, apparently it broke down very well how he would suit us because as we play a midfielder who drops between the centrebacks. White can push out to the right to receive and play the ball, apparently he is very two legged along with being able to cut out any quick breaks from the opposition due to his agility. Apparently our current options dont fit as well to the system as White would. But I dont have an athletic subscription so Im only getting this second hand from reddit :D
 

GDeep™

Cute and Clever
Koscielny was a liability, every game you go in with him there’s a huge chance you concede because of him directly.
I knew you would have an issue as soon as I posted that. Great reader of the game, quick, but played in a banter defence and attack based team.

That mistake against Atletico killed me though, we were the better team and I thought we were going to win the EL.
 

BigPoppaPump

Points Out The Obvious
I knew you would have an issue as soon as I posted that. Great reader of the game, quick, but played in a banter defence and attack based team.

That mistake against Atletico killed me though, we were the better team and I thought we were going to win the EL.
Koecielny was a poor reader of the game, he’d always attack the ball with no worries about what’s around him and leave huge spaces behind. He needed someone like Mertesacker to look after him while he ran around. He shouldn’t be revered at all tbh.

Mertesacker was the true great reader of the game, slow as hell but still a great CB. If he had Koscielny athleticism he’d have been world class.
 

pikey2000

Well-Known Member
Athletic released an article going through Ben White as an option for Arsenal, apparently it broke down very well how he would suit us because as we play a midfielder who drops between the centrebacks. White can push out to the right to receive and play the ball, apparently he is very two legged along with being able to cut out any quick breaks from the opposition due to his agility. Apparently our current options dont fit as well to the system as White would. But I dont have an athletic subscription so Im only getting this second hand from reddit :D

This isn't a dig at you, so don't take it that way, but why would you deploy someone as a CM only to have him drop back between the CB's so that one of the CB's can push on :)

Just ****ing buy competent CM's who can receive the ball and push on and leave the CB's at CB's

I realise this does actually happen so I'm not saying that isn't Arteta's intention but **** me we over complicate tactics sometimes

I'd love to have been privy to the conversation between whomever devised this tactic

Coach 1 - "So, what can we do that is different and the opponent won't be expecting?"

Coach 2 - "I've been thinking about this, stay with me on this because its a bit of a long shot"

Coach 1 - "crack on, I'm all for thinking outside of the box"

Coach 2 - "why don't we take 1 of our midfielders and ask them to play CB and then at the same time ask our CB's to move wider and carry the ball up the pitch like a midfielder would..........."

Coach 1 - "but we don't have any decent CB's who can carry ball and our CM's are good on the ball"

Coach 2 - "don't worry about that, we just need to buy a CM who is good at CB and buy a CB who can play like a CM"

Coach 1 - "Boom! Great idea! Lets go!"
 

Monstar-Gunn4r

Well-Known Member
This isn't a dig at you, so don't take it that way, but why would you deploy someone as a CM only to have him drop back between the CB's so that one of the CB's can push on :)
I wouldnt play that way either, I dont think it follows the midfielder sits in a back 3 while the centreback moves forward though, theres several ideas around it and progressing the ball, creating triangles and bringing players on to the ball and having the deep midfielder push forward as we move up the pitch while that deep midfielder who should be the strongest on the ball is always open to passes and can dictate the play.
 

Finesse

Well-Known Member
Trusted ✔️
Again why is the probable acquisition of White sound like a signal to a probable lack of chances or end to Saliba? Apart from reports his loan is over and should report to duty at Arsenal as planned during his loan arrangements , there is no credible source to indicate otherwise. So why are we discussing it?

Saliba or White should be playing for Arsenal not because Saliba has been out o loan for 2 seasons / unfairly treated and must play here , nor White cost 40-50M and must play. They both should be given the chance to earn their spot. It is that simple. We need them in our squad irrespective of who starts.

We seem to have decided to deliberately ignore the market trends with British footballers especially the current generation , the value of the homegrown quota bundled with an England senior representation when it comes to Arsenal buying. We throw in the stats , forum rumours and all sorts of gimmicks to mitigate the price premium that comes with it. However we are quick to remember they exists when one of ours is linked to other clubs. Players like Mount and Philips for example with a very short meteoric rise and a similar profile are going for much more. Double or triple in value within 12 months and irrespective of any stats you throw at it.

Holding or Chambers with an equally brilliant season coupled with inclusion into the England team for the Euros are profiles non of you would accept less that 50M for if any our so called rivals for TOP 4 inquired about.

It is what it is and these are market trends and dynamics we have no control over. We just have to be smarter as a club and develop a mechanism to keep and grow value with our acquisitions. Chelsea are notable for this. They are happy to pay market price , but savvy to keep it , grow it , and sell with equal mettle. Some on here worry about what if Saliba's value drops , What if White flops and we are left with a player of less value? The question should be , as a top club why are we doubting our ability to acquire 2 top young CBs and grow their value instead ? If we want to buy at Leicester prices , then we should grow value too in equal measure. What does that say about our handling of acquisitions to maintain and grow value ? Instead , we experts at keeping them and letting them run down deals with no relative return or sale on value. Then we are jubilant to get them off the wage bill and slag them off as mercenaries etc. This is where we must improve and not haggling over market value quotations because of our unique weakness and frailties.
 
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GunnerShy

Well-Known Member
Again why is the probable acquisition of White sound like a signal to a probable lack of chances or end to Saliba? Apart from reports his loan is over and should report to duty at Arsenal as planned during his loan arrangements , there is no credible source to indicate otherwise. So why are we discussing it?

Saliba or White should be playing for Arsenal not because Saliba has been out o loan for 2 seasons / unfairly treated and must play here , nor White cost 40-50M and must play. They both should be given the chance to earn their spot. It is that simple. We need them in our squad irrespective of who starts.

We seem to have decided to deliberately ignore the market trends with British footballers especially the current generation , the value of the homegrown quota bundled with an England senior representation when it comes to Arsenal buying. We throw in the stats , forum rumours and all sorts of gimmicks to mitigate the price premium that comes with it. However we are quick to remember they exists when one of ours is linked to other clubs. Players like Mount and Philips for example with a very short meteoric rise and a similar profile are going for much more. Double or triple in value within 12 months and irrespective of any stats you throw at it.

Holding or Chambers with an equally brilliant season coupled with inclusion into the England team for the Euros are profiles non of you would accept less that 50M for if any our so called rivals for TOP 4 inquired about.

It is what it is and these are market trends and dynamics we have no control over. We just have to be smarter as a club and develop a mechanism to keep and grow value with our acquisitions. Chelsea are notable for this. They are happy to pay market price , but savvy to keep it , grow it , and sell with equal mettle. Some on here worry about what if Saliba's value drops , What if White flops and we are left with a player of less value? The question should be , as a top club why are we doubting our ability to acquire 2 top young CBs and grow their value instead ? If we want to buy at Leicester prices , then we should grow value too in equal measure. What does that say about our handling of acquisitions to maintain and grow value ? Instead , we experts at keeping them and letting them run down deals with no relative return or sale on value. Then we are jubilant to get them off the wage bill and slag them off as mercenaries etc. This is where we must improve and not haggling over market value quotations because of our unique weakness and frailties.
I guess it's a couple of things that stand out.

You say we are a top club. We've finished 6th, 5th, 8th, 8th in recent years. Our owners are dispassionate Americans.

Our managing director signed a commercial deal with a car company that doesn't exist.

Our Technical Director and Manager are rookies who have lead us to 8th. We've gone for the 6th highest earning club in world football to outside the top 10. Overtaken by smaller clubs such as Tottenham. Our revenues were in decline prior to covid.

We are a big club, massive even, but it's been a while since we were a top club. About 12 years I'd suggest.

You talk about English premium and mention Mount and Phillips. But there's levels to English international. Paying a premium for an English international is a thing yes. But what premium should we be paying for a guy with 12 minutes experience as a substitute in a friendly who made the Euro squad due to a TAA injury. This is not outsmarting the market.

Final one on growing value. To do well yes, we must grow the value of these players. Part of that is development, the other part is timing of contract talks. Thing is, for the last 5 years we've been losing players we'd like to keep for free and paying others to leave.

No wonder we are worried about paying over the odds for a player we seemingly don't need. There's no evidence to suggest we have our house in order on this, and until there is its completely logical to be concerned. Saliba's value has already dropped.
 

Finesse

Well-Known Member
Trusted ✔️
I guess it's a couple of things that stand out.

You say we are a top club. We've finished 6th, 5th, 8th, 8th in recent years. Our owners are dispassionate Americans.

Our managing director signed a commercial deal with a car company that doesn't exist.

Our Technical Director and Manager are rookies who have lead us to 8th. We've gone for the 6th highest earning club in world football to outside the top 10. Overtaken by smaller clubs such as Tottenham. Our revenues were in decline prior to covid.

We are a big club, massive even, but it's been a while since we were a top club. About 12 years I'd suggest.

You talk about English premium and mention Mount and Phillips. But there's levels to English international. Paying a premium for an English international is a thing yes. But what premium should we be paying for a guy with 12 minutes experience as a substitute in a friendly who made the Euro squad due to a TAA injury. This is not outsmarting the market.

Final one on growing value. To do well yes, we must grow the value of these players. Part of that is development, the other part is timing of contract talks. Thing is, for the last 5 years we've been losing players we'd like to keep for free and paying others to leave.

No wonder we are worried about paying over the odds for a player we seemingly don't need. There's no evidence to suggest we have our house in order on this, and until there is its completely logical to be concerned. Saliba's value has already dropped.

You have got into the details of what I captured. Further strengthening my position. You have the right to be pedantic regarding the homegrown premium and international involvement. It is your cup of tea ! What matters to me and the reason for the discussion is the fact all that has impacted on the player's market value. Full Stop!

In a nutshell as you concurred our ineptitude with growing value with our players and the fact our house is not in order is the platform for "concerns " ( flip flopping )

Ironically despite all your points raised , we would quote same if any of our players with a similar profile were approached. ;)
 

Sapient Hawk

Can You Smell What The Hawk Is Cooking?
That’s impossible though? Adams was the greatest defender and natural leaders in English football history.

White looks like our next Koscielny, who for me was a good player.

God forbid! The last thing we need is another weakling who cries in the dressing room when his family members ask him why the team are under-performing.

That & his clattering of Szczesny against Birmingham in the league cup a decade ago are his legacy here 🤣
 
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