✍️ OFFICIAL Ben White

[GDeep™]

Why don’t we just use the 50M on Webster, he’s looked superb every time I’ve watched Brighton.

The club would’ve if they thought he was better.

 

[Iceman10]

If they get who they actually want, Arteta will be here for a while.

And I don’t agree with much of any of their analyses. I really don’t think most on here or in the Arsenal fan base realize how far behind we are on and off the pitch. If you go way back, you’ll see I was the first wanting the Kroenke’s to go. Long before they became full owners. We should feel lucky to have Arteta given our dumbass owners.

We've taken the heat out of this, and this is a Ben White thread after all, but my last point on this well trodden area of discussion is the expectation for me last season was not a title challenge or even CL qualification. The expectation was just EL re-qualification, and we fell short even on that. Everyone knows we've fallen behind, but Arteta even underachieved on reasonable expectations. It could be that he's a chequebook manager, like Pep, we'll hopefully get a chance to see if he passes or fails at that.

 

[al-Ustaadh]

We've taken the heat out of this, and this is a Ben White thread after all, but my last point on this well trodden area of discussion is the expectation for me last season was not a title challenge or even CL qualification. The expectation was just EL re-qualification, and we fell short even on that. Everyone knows we've fallen behind, but Arteta even underachieved on reasonable expectations. It could be that he's a chequebook manager, like Pep, we'll hopefully get a chance to see if he passes or fails at that.

Yes, it's disappointing but I don't think it's grounds for being fired. There are a lot of other variables that have affected the outcome. And you can see this in Arteta's interviews at the end of the season. We just don't have a good squad. I've thought this since Arteta took over. Thought he worked a miracle getting us the FA Cup. It has been and will continue to be a slow transition to get this squad to a competitive level. This summer, for once, we're actually trying to turn that around. Don't think Arteta will be able to be a chequebook manager because the Kroenke's wont keep taking loans to make it work. This either works or I wouldn't be surprised if Ek buys them out.

 

[Iceman10]

He make's a good point about Saliba being a sensitive subject for Arsenal fans and therefore likely to attract clicks tho, even if you forget the propaganda.

Anyone know why the word topic is just replaced with that dumb emoji?

Saliba of course fits into gripes about last season and whether Arteta gets the most out of what he has, or whether he is just a chequebook manager. I would accept Saliba probably would not have been the finished article last season, but if we have a season finishing mid-table that is ideally the season when you get acclimatisation of the player out of the way. Anyway, with this move for Ben White we are just seeing that Arteta operates like Pep and Mourinho, and I don't really care that much as long as the results are good. I do agree to some extent the emotional attachments some have to Ssliba is a bit over the top.

 

[Finesse]

The Saliba and White comparison currently shading this transfer thread is a clear depiction of how some of us are as confused as the owners over the past few seasons. Why not Saliba vs Mari or Gabriel comparison all Left CBs playing for Arsenal? Saliba deserves his chance here and there is no credible info to refute that. So why the comparisons? Why are we not looking at this as an addition? I would not bother if Saliba comes in and takes Gabriels/ Mari's position. Who cares? Arsenal wins ! We seems to be focusing on what does not really matter using very unknown variables and completely forgetting we need to reinforce to be prepared for the start of the season. I recall similar Buendia comparisons leading up until we lost out.

As for the @al-Ustaadh vs @Iceman10 debate , I feel a bit sorry for Arteta when I look at how much we need to fix , sell and buy going into the season. I really do because we are so far off in terms of personnel on the pitch. My colleague reminded me to think again why many more experienced and top managers refused to take on this project before Arteta was handed the role!

 

[samspade]

Saliba of course fits into gripes about last season and whether Arteta gets the most out of what he has, or whether he is just a chequebook manager. I would accept Saliba probably would not have been the finished article last season, but if we have a season finishing mid-table that is ideally the season when you get acclimatisation of the player out of the way. Anyway, with this move for Ben White we are just seeing that Arteta operates like Pep and Mourinho, and I don't really care that much as long as the results are good. I do agree to some extent the emotional attachments some have to Ssliba is a bit over the top.

Two things keep me invested this Arteta continuation: I think he's made a huge difference to the structure of the midfield and defence as well as the standards expected at the club in terms of hard work; I hope that when he has lots of good players around him that he will stumble on powerful combinations within the structure he has established. I think he's made a number of poor decisions this season on how best to utilise the players he already has, there has been a consistent dichotomy between controlling games (Willian, ödegaard, lacazette) and being unpredictable and dangerous (Pepe, Martinelli) and I think he's leant too far towards the former, the players we have are much more suited to be fast and devestating than controlling and suffocating imo. So he's made poor decisions for the progression of the more unpredictable players and has utilised our resources poorly. That being said I don't rate the manager talent pool very highly and think that many established managers with a 'track record' would have made this job look like hard work too, people rave about Conte and Allegri but I don't see what anything they've done has to do with the challenges Arsenal face. However, I might've appointed rogers or Flick if available.

Many people on AM will take success at any price but I won't, I will always be an Arsenal fan but there are possible versions of a successful Arsenal that I would not be interested in watching, the way we do it is important to me. I was brought up on Wenger and beautiful football and I won't have anything accept winning with verve and grace- and I want it done with the talented youngsters we have so what happens to ESR, Saka, Balogun, Azeez etc is important to me and I dont want the treatment and possible replacement of Saliba to be representative of whats to come.

Obviously this is a Ben White thread and I won't derail it anymore.

 

[Iceman10]

The Saliba and White comparison currently shading this transfer thread is a clear depiction of how some of us are as confused as the owners over the past few seasons. Why not Saliba vs Mari or Gabriel comparison all Left CBs playing for Arsenal? Saliba deserves his chance here and there is no credible info to refute that. So why the comparisons? Why are we not looking at this as an addition? I would not bother if Saliba comes in and takes Gabriels/ Mari's position. Who cares? Arsenal wins ! We seems to be focusing on what does not really matter using very unknown variables and completely forgetting we need to reinforce to be prepared for the start of the season. I recall similar Buendia comparisons leading up until we lost out.

As for the @al-Ustaadh vs @Iceman10 debate , I feel a bit sorry for Arteta when I look at how much we need to fix , sell and buy going into the season. I really do because we are so far off in terms of personnel on the pitch. My colleague reminded me to think again why many more experienced and top managers refused to take on this project before Arteta was handed the role!

Going into next season Arteta will have had two summer transfer windows. Artera made a number of decisions to stick with certain players last summer, added Willian who was incompatible with a "project", and botched decision making over what to do with Saliba, which contributed to a bad situation. At the end of that window he also said he was happy with all the backing he was getting from the Kroenke's. A foolish thing to say, but he said it.

We can put last summer aside, can't go back in time. We did separate Özil, Sokratis, and Mustafi in Jan, with help of the BoE loan.

Then we come to this summer. Yes, there is a heck of a lot to do... and we got nothing done before Euros and Copa America started, in part with Buendia indecision because we were chasing Ødegaard. No, I don't feel sorry for Arteta and Edu. They have jobs to do they are very well compensated to do. The lack of activity so far will be ok if everything still gets done, but I'm not going to let this "feel sorry for Arterta" thing stand. It is an entry way into more excuses if results are poor at the beginning of next season. No, Arteta has three months into next season to prove himself, results- wise, no more shifting of goalposts.

 

[field442]

Also as someone pointed out on Reddit, the scaling in those graphs makes what is essentially tiny differences look huge.

 

[drippin]

Also as someone pointed out on Reddit, the scaling in those graphs makes what is essentially tiny differences look huge.

Rich solved that puzzle: it's so that the end goal is achieved - the ice cream cone shape.

It's summer after all. The little dwarves who make the charts love ice cream.

 

[Red London]

@American_Gooner hilarious whoever added that crying emoji to the reaction emojis.

Perfectly suited to selling Saliba and signing White for £50m. Good timing.

 

[Red London]

I think the situation is blown way out of proportion. Don't give a **** for most of it. And if he gets sold, then so be it. Don't give a ****. Wasn't their purchase and I don't care about whoever else thinks what of him. The fact that Bayern, or Real, or PSG, or Juventus, etc etc etc aren't trying to take advantage of the situation should be revealing. I feel the same about Buendia and the big deal about that. Given how good he is and the other top English clubs working on a budget, you think even somebody like Tottenham or Everton would've gone in for him at least. But no. Apparently Saliba and Buendia are gold, but White doesn't matter. Meanwhile, Manchester United wants him. But guess who's still better? The players that none of the other top clubs care to even take a sniff at.

United are in for a lot of defenders like Varane, Pau Torres, Koundé and White.

In terms of Saliba I am just going with the signs. I spent a lot of time this season protecting Arteta on this forum, but he isn’t doing himself favours with this potential decision. The reason why I think the reports may be true is because Arteta was interviewed about Saliba recently and he looked extremely dismissive almost of the question. He basically gave the same stock reply he has said about players who are probably leaving eg bellerin: “ he is a member of the squad “ type schtick.

You must admit that after the Guendouzi situation (where I backed Arteta and saw where he was coming from), if he exiles Saliba it is worrying. That’s where I’m coming from right now because of the previous paragraph where I explain why Arteta doesn’t seem to fancy Saliba.

 

[al-Ustaadh]

United are in for a lot of defenders like Varane, Pau Torres, Koundé and White.

In terms of Saliba I am just going with the signs. I spent a lot of time this season protecting Arteta on this forum, but he isn’t doing himself favours with this potential decision. The reason why I think the reports may be true is because Arteta was interviewed about Saliba recently and he looked extremely dismissive almost of the question. He basically gave the same stock reply he has said about players who are probably leaving eg bellerin: “ he is a member of the squad “ type schtick.

You must admit that after the Guendouzi situation (where I backed Arteta and saw where he was coming from), if he exiles Saliba it is worrying. That’s where I’m coming from right now because of the previous paragraph where I explain why Arteta doesn’t seem to fancy Saliba.

I just don't think Saliba is as good as the hype. Like I said, why aren't the bigger clubs trying to take advantage of the situation if he's such this elite talent? And so what if United are in for other defenders, that doesn't quite defeat my point.

 

[Red London]

I just don't think Saliba is as good as the hype. Like I said, why aren't the bigger clubs trying to take advantage of the situation if he's such this elite talent? And so what if United are in for other defenders, that doesn't quite defeat my point.

I didn’t say he’s an elite talent though? I want him to get a chance, he hasn’t played a proper match for Arsenal.

We spent £30m on him I’m not talking about some academy product I got told about round the pub.

 

[al-Ustaadh]

I didn’t say he’s an elite talent though? I want him to get a chance, he hasn’t played a proper match for Arsenal.

We spent £30m on him I’m not talking about some academy product I got told about round the pub.

You're avoiding my argument and focusing on semantics and ontology. But that's fine. We'll part ways here.

 

[Trilly]

with graphs/charts you don't really understand.

Speak for yourself.

 

[Red London]

You're avoiding my argument and focusing on semantics and ontology. But that's fine. We'll part ways here.

You’re using big words but avoiding my points.

I never called Saliba elite I wanted him to have a chance. You clearly have an agenda.

 

[al-Ustaadh]

You’re using big words but avoiding my points.

I never called Saliba elite I wanted him to have a chance. You clearly have an agenda.

My point is I don’t care about him “being given a chance” if he’s deemed to not be ready for our level. We’re doing what elite clubs do with “supposed” talents like him by buying and loaning. What worries me is the fuss made about him but I see no big clubs trying to take advantage of the situation. Seems like he could just be another bad buy by Sanllehi and co.

 

[Sebastes]

better than Saliba yeah

Gee, what a surprise

 

[SingmeasongSong]

The pain of seeing Saliba ending up at another top club in England eventually, being a top 5 defender in the world, that's your classic Arsenal hell.

 

[Sebastes]

Also as someone pointed out on Reddit, the scaling in those graphs makes what is essentially tiny differences look huge.

That looks true to an extent, but the scaling isn't there to create an agenda. It's based on percentiles of centre backs, so it's actually a quite fair reflection of how they compare. The stats are also per 90 mins so over the course of a season these small differences add up.

It's like saying there isn't a huge difference between a striker having 0.6 xG, or even scoring 0.6 goals per 90 minutes vs having 0.4 xG/goals per 90 mins. Over a season that's 20 vs 13 goals scored.