Bukayo Saka: Return Of The Sak

[Blood on the Tracks]

Except for Ronaldo apparently, his dribbling isn't on the same level according to some experts here

I think we're just fortunate that we got to watch two of the greatest players of all time in our era, and their peaks were pretty much at the same time and playing in the same league.

 

[ArsenesCoatMaker]

Well yeah, he'd have been 4ft 6 or something without it.

Messi is just a freak though, if there's such a thing as God given talent, he's got it.

Would Messi's tendons and muscularity be the same without the HGH though? We know Barce was involved in doping anyway. With Messi they could easily ask the doctor they paid for to amp up the dosage.

 

[db10_therza]

Is @Maybe actually here saying CR7 is a better dribbler than Maradonna was?

Wow.

AM never ceases to amaze me.

 

[Sulosky]

I don’t think he can be called star boy anymore, very much the main man.

Vern?

 

[Macho]

This just isn’t true, starting to worry about your views

Messi never did a step over in his life, not sure Salah has either. It’s a combination of winning things and high profile big performances that earn you the label.

There isn’t much between Vini Jr and Saka in terms of week in week out productivity and performances. It’s the trophy wins and performances in the cup runs that has him as a favourite to win the Balon D’or.

There isn’t many left saying Saka isn’t WC, I don’t really know what A-M are looking for in regards to Saka sentiment.

 

[Gooner Zig]

Saka's dribbling has definitely gone up a level this season, that's clear - fullbacks have no clue whether he's going to cut inside or get smoked on the outside. His successful dribble numbers are sky high, you can see there's more conviction and power in his game.

 

[Batman]

I only caught the tail end of Maradona's career but people who I trust who saw it all said he was as good as the hype.

GOAT's could play in any era, you could put Di Stefano in today's era and he'd adapt and be top, top class. You could put Messi in the 50's and he'd adapt and be be great.

Freak talents will always thrive no matter the era.

Exactly. Give Maradona an inhaler instead of his coke and modern training and recovery methods and you'd have a better version of Messi. Give Pele modern boots and have him kicking one of these high-tech footballs instead of that heavy leather monstrosity on those torn up pitches and he'd be doing a lot more than a Vini Jr or a Neymar. The disrespect to the innovators of the game who walked so these guys could run is crazy to me. If Messi grew up a few years earlier, he'd still be in Rosario at about 4 foot 7 without his HGH treatments so it goes both ways.

 

[GoonerJeeves]

I guess you often tend to put the players from your childhood on some sort of pedestal, but I never found either Messi or Ronaldo as exciting to watch as Maradona. The World Cup in 1986 was just a fantastic tournament, and Maradona outshone every player there, in my view.

One gets more cynical with age though, and that might well play a part. Realistically, it is hard to compare different eras, the sport changes, and the science behind the game changes too.

 

[Geofranco]

Except for Ronaldo apparently, his dribbling isn't on the same level according to some experts here

With a heavier ball and worse pitch, he'd be toast. If he is not allowed to get away with flopping and crying every game, he'd struggle to adjust. Guy had to take every penalty and every free kick, even after missing 100 in a row . Kobe and Cristiano have a lot in common.

 

[Maybe]

Exactly. Give Maradona an inhaler instead of his coke and modern training and recovery methods and you'd have a better version of Messi. Give Pele modern boots and have him kicking one of these high-tech footballs instead of that heavy leather monstrosity on those torn up pitches and he'd be doing a lot more than a Vini Jr or a Neymar. The disrespect to the innovators of the game who walked so these guys could run is crazy to me. If Messi grew up a few years earlier, he'd still be in Rosario at about 4 foot 7 without his HGH treatments so it goes both ways.

So it's disrespectful to say a modern player could be better than guys from 40-70 years ago but it's OK to say if you give a pair of boots to those previous generations they would be better than players who scored 600-700 goals in top leagues and winning CL many times. You do understand that the number of players today is incomparable to what we had half a century ago, meaning the top talent pool will be significantly higher as well, and that's ignoring all the other factors like training and diet, the chances are higher that the GOAT will be closer to our current day than x years ago

What does a player these days need to do to be better than Maradona if 600-700 goals plus countless trophies in top leagues and CLs from Messi and Ronaldo isn't good enough to be better than Maradona?

I usually rate you as one of the best on this forum but this is a big no-no for me

 

[Batman]

So it's disrespectful to say a modern player could be better than guys from 40-70 years ago but it's OK to say if you give a pair of boots to those previous generations they would be better than players who scored 600-700 goals in top leagues and winning CL many times. You do understand that the number of players today is incomparable to what we had half a century ago, meaning the top talent pool will be significantly higher as well, and that's ignoring all the other factors like training and diet, the chances are higher that the GOAT will be closer to our current day than x years ago

What does a player these days need to do to be better than Maradona if 600-700 goals plus countless trophies in top leagues and CLs from Messi and Ronaldo isn't good enough to be better than Maradona?

I usually rate you as one of the best on this forum but this is a big no-no for me

It's quite simple when you see players of previous generations doing the same things with the ball that these players of today do when they had far less of the modern advancements on their side. Basic common sense also dictates that a bigger player pool doesn't just affect the high end of talent but also affects the low end as well. That's how you get squad in 2024 that don't hold a candle to squads you saw in 2004, despite the incredible increase in investment.

Lastly and most importantly, I do not care about your rating. At all.

 

[ArsenesCoatMaker]

Is @Maybe actually here saying CR7 is a better dribbler than Maradonna was?

Wow.

AM never ceases to amaze me.

He's saying players that are faster who play kick and run are better than the most skilled player of all time.

 

[ArsenesCoatMaker]

Except for Ronaldo apparently, his dribbling isn't on the same level according to some experts here

It's interesting you're scared about quoting me. I take it that my assumption about you been an American therefore not knowing what you're talking about is therefore correct

Ronaldo's dribblng is sub elite. Great player, but if you can't see that, you know nothing about football.

 

[Tnegs]

It's interesting you're scared about quoting me. I take it that my assumption about you been an American therefore not knowing what you're talking about is therefore correct

Ronaldo's dribblng is sub elite. Great player, but if you can't see that, you know nothing about football.

What is elite dribbling then? I don’t think I saw many better than Ronaldo at Utd. That was easily the best winger I’ve even seen based on his ability to beat a man, create and score goals and what is even more incredible is he then went on to reinvent himself as a striker and become the record goalscorer for the greatest club in the world finishing there with more goals than games. Easy to forget what an incredibly entertaining player Ronaldo was earlier in his career.

 

[Red London]

What is elite dribbling then? I don’t think I saw many better than Ronaldo at Utd. That was easily the best winger I’ve even seen based on his ability to beat a man, create and score goals and what is even more incredible is he then went on to reinvent himself as a striker and become the record goalscorer for the greatest club in the world finishing there with more goals than games. Easy to forget what an incredibly entertaining player Ronaldo was earlier in his career.

I’m not sure on the previous context of what’s been going on in this thread (apparently someone said CR7 was a better dribbler than Maradona??!), but you’re spot on. United Ronaldo, but also early Madrid Ronaldo, was an absolute beast at dribbling. He was electric. He had precision, skill, pace and power.

I actually used to prefer Ronaldo to Messi in the earlier days (maybe because I hated Barca after 2006). But tuning in for La Liga back then was magical, the amount of times I saw CR7 dribble past a couple players and then smack the ball into the top corner from distance was astonishing.

Ronaldo then admittedly turned into a comparatively boring player to watch when he got to his late 20s/ early 30s. He became a moments player, the best moments player there ever was, but a moments player nonetheless.

It seems like many people are thinking of that Ronaldo of the last decade rather than when he was in his physical prime. I guess having such a long career will do that to some people.

 

[Maybe]

It's quite simple when you see players of previous generations doing the same things with the ball that these players of today do when they had far less of the modern advancements on their side. Basic common sense also dictates that a bigger player pool doesn't just affect the high end of talent but also affects the low end as well. That's how you get squad in 2024 that don't hold a candle to squads you saw in 2004, despite the incredible increase in investment.

That's absurd, the bigger the talent pool is there's gonna be more top talents that will always end up where the money is. That's not that much different than what was happening before but obviously, if you have 10 amazing players in 2010 or 5 amazing players in 1970 your richest league will always be stronger than they were back in the day. How did you end up that the squads in 2004 were better than they are now is beyond me, you look at the mid-bottom tables in the PL (let's take Brighton for example) and they are clearly miles ahead than they were in 2004, and it gets way worse when you go to 70s or 80s.

Love it how you say basic common sense and then you come out with absolute rubbish.

 

[Maybe]

It's interesting you're scared about quoting me. I take it that my assumption about you been an American therefore not knowing what you're talking about is therefore correct

Ronaldo's dribblng is sub elite. Great player, but if you can't see that, you know nothing about football.

What's there to quote, if you don't understand there are different styles of dribbling and players will use different techniques to beat their markers then you are not an expert you are pretending to be here.
Did the ball stick closer to Maradona, sure, but that's not the only thing that we look at.

Some players will heavily use their pace to beat their man, Ronaldo was doing it by changing direction fast Iniesta used his amazing agility to escape challenges in tight spaces, and Messi used his low center of gravity, while Maradona used a combination.

It is worth saying that Ronaldo was only doing it early in his career and that's what I'm taking as an example, everything after his United days was robotic and he changed his game drastically.

Surely there needs to be a time when it's gonna be acceptable that a modern player might be better than the guy who played the game 50 or more years ago, but I guess we are not there yet

 

[Maybe]

What is elite dribbling then? I don’t think I saw many better than Ronaldo at Utd. That was easily the best winger I’ve even seen based on his ability to beat a man, create and score goals and what is even more incredible is he then went on to reinvent himself as a striker and become the record goalscorer for the greatest club in the world finishing there with more goals than games. Easy to forget what an incredibly entertaining player Ronaldo was earlier in his career.

Apparently, it's only when you juggle the ball like you are in the circus.

 

[Riou]

He and Pires should be on house arrest at @Riou's house.

To be honest, I am kinda bored of the "I hate all the current Arsenal players gimmick" now.

Still think there should be a bit of pressure on us to win something, but bar that I am kinda done with being the heel now...want all the current players to do well, especially after the City game!

Just remember while our older players may not always say something we agree with, they aren't being disrespectful...they were great players at this club and achieved greatness while under the Arsenal name, so some respect is also due to them

 

[Macho]

I haven't read but is @Maybe in hot water for sh*tting on goats again?