Carabao Cup 4th Round: Liverpool v Arsenal | Wednesday October 30, 19:30 GMT | Sky Sports

Who will go through to the 5th Round?


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Big Poppa

Established Member
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I still think we can't lay all the blame at our defenders feet. If we struggled to keep out goals whenever we came up against quality attackers then we could point at our defenders as not being at a good enough level. But when we are lucky to concede just 2 goals against the likes of Victoria and Watford and concede 5 against a Liverpool attack just containing Origi then we have to assume it must be the system.

Are our defenders worse than the likes of Sheff United? No chance they are, yet they don't concede too many goals.

Once we get a proper system in place in which we limit the opponents to a manageable amount of chances/shots at goal then we can debate properly how bad our defenders are.

At the moment in every single game they have to repel wave after wave of attacks. Even the best defenders will end up making mistakes if that happens.

At the basics? Yes
 

redanddread

The stone that the builders refuse
Klopp even threw on some more kids I've never heard of, to make it easier for us. He knocked Emery out with one arm behind his back. :lol:
You know, he took off his regulars and brought on no names and we still couldn't do it. I remember thinking he's given it up. Emery's a timid ****ing coach that should be nowhere near this club right now. sorry to sound so angry but I am.
 

Riou

Gatekeeper Of Mediocrity
How didn't Pepe get subbed on in the second half when they looked primed for counter attacks, how did Lucas get brought off when we were defending a narrow lead...why isn't news filtering through of Raul and Edu walking out of the changing room, with blood on their hands saying Emery has decided to take an extended vacation, and until further notice Freddie is in charge...so many obvious things that needed to happen.
 

Pepes blue pill

Well-Known Member
I give you Mustafi. Are the rest of our defenders that much worse than the defenders at other clubs beside Liverpool? Chelsea have Zouma, Christiansen, Timori etc, don't think those are better than ours. Even Man City, Stones, Otamendi, Fernandinho etc aren't really great defenders on their own.

And those are the top clubs. We are conceding more than mid table clubs. We definitely have better defenders than them.

We are giving away free kicks and penalties cos 90% of the game seems to be played in or around our penalty area. Luiz gave away more penalties in his first 4 games for us rhan in his entire Chelsea career. How can that be explained?

Watch when Liverpool or any team with any competent defensive system play. They hardly allow the opposition to reach the danger areas. Once they do, their defenders look like any defenders, nothing super special except VVD, who is obviously a great defender.

But to make the point again about the system. When I watch VVD play for the Dutch team, he doesn't look half as good as he does for Liverpool. They concede goals in every single game.

There are so many other example. When Ranieri took over at Leicester they were conceding for fun. He didn't change any personel, changed the system and suddenly they had an airtight defence. Kante was also crucial in that he shielded the defence, again the point they minimised the opposition having the ball near their penalty area.

Not saying our defenders are world beaters. But without a working defensive plan the defenders have got no hope in hell to succeed. Even if we bought a couple of world class defenders.

Tbh its really hard to expect the defenders to do much when there is zero protection in front, the biggest problem at the club is our midfield and that is because of one man, shown by the fact whoever plays there its still no existent
 

rich 1990

Not A Big Believer In Diversity
I know transfers are a bit of a lottery, but I remember saying that Kola and Mustafi were poverty under Wenger. But oh no, posters kept saying it was Wenger's rubbish tactics, don't blame the players. Well here we are again.

How many managers before the club admits they got some transfers badly wrong. It happens, sell them and move on. But not Arsenal, they keep Mustafi and buy two look alikes, Sokratis and Luiz. Throw Xhaka in and you've got enough hot heads to scupper any lead you get through good goal scoring.
Problem is when our transfers go wrong, they're so bad nobody else wants to sign them off us so we get lumbered:lol: Think we are moving in the right direction with the squad but it will certainly take another summer to get it right. For the time being, Emery needs to bog off or do better. At the moment, we're not even maximising our stronger areas, not even close.
 

Pepes blue pill

Well-Known Member
We had a two goal lead twice, we had experince on the bench and they didnt, it was fairly obvious keita n ox wouldnt play 90mins, all you had was stay tight n the bench alone would have won you the game, maybe the worst game management I have ever seen n thats a big statement for any arsenal fan to make
 

Hleb's Sirush

Well-Known Member
Tbh its really hard to expect the defenders to do much when there is zero protection in front, the biggest problem at the club is our midfield and that is because of one man, shown by the fact whoever plays there its still no existent

Yes the biggest problem area is the midfield but we are almost equally bad in all areas. There is no cohesion anywhere. That is why there is no point trying to evaluate any player at the moment. It is all just a big mess.
 

Makingtrax

Planes, Trains & Social Media Rants
My friend, at the moment we could buy peak Maldini and make him look like peak Squillaci. There's no defensive DNA in this club. we haven't been able to defend for as long as I can remember. Now that may be down to poor signings but also two coaches who don't know how to teach defense. This prick makes Arsène look like Mourinho 1.0.

We've downgraded in every possible way from Arsène, every way.
Welcome back bro!

Emery's another matter altogether. His team selections and substitutions are just bizarre. His tactics change constantly.

But Emery isn't telling Sokratis to go to ground and make rash tackles, or Luiz to pull shirts, Mustafi to not mark players, or Xhaka to make a late slide tackle in the box.
 

Big Poppa

Established Member
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I give you Mustafi. Are the rest of our defenders that much worse than the defenders at other clubs beside Liverpool? Chelsea have Zouma, Christiansen, Timori etc, don't think those are better than ours. Even Man City, Stones, Otamendi, Fernandinho etc aren't really great defenders on their own.

And those are the top clubs. We are conceding more than mid table clubs. We definitely have better defenders than them.

We are giving away free kicks and penalties cos 90% of the game seems to be played in or around our penalty area. Luiz gave away more penalties in his first 4 games for us than in his entire Chelsea career. How can that be explained?

Watch when Liverpool or any team with any competent defensive system play. They hardly allow the opposition to reach the danger areas. Once they do, their defenders look like any defenders, nothing super special except VVD, who is obviously a great defender.

But to make the point again about the system. When I watch VVD play for the Dutch team, he doesn't look half as good as he does for Liverpool. They concede goals in every single game.

There are so many other example. When Ranieri took over at Leicester they were conceding for fun. He didn't change any personel, changed the system and suddenly they had an airtight defence. Kante was also crucial in that he shielded the defence, again the point they minimised the opposition having the ball near their penalty area.

Not saying our defenders are world beaters. But without a working defensive plan the defenders have got no hope in hell to succeed. Even if we bought a couple of world class defenders.

Dude, we don’t have a single defender who can make headed clearances more than 10 yards or mark properly at set pieces.

The game changed defensively for United in the 3 years they had Ferdinand, Vidic and Van Der Sar, Chelsea when they had Gallas, Terry and Cech and Pool with VVD, Alison, and Fabinho.

Their systems remained the same. I think we’ve just had weak defenders for so long at the back some of you have got used to them.

With van Dyke in this team over Mustafi we still leak silly goals but get at least 10 more points a season.
 

Steps

Well-Known Member
Missed the game live as I had some stuff to do for work. Just got done watching/fast-forwarding the DVR. Some thoughts:

1. Kinda felt bad for Mustafi's OG. Woulda been a lot more irritated had it come off his front leg, but coming off the knee of his trailing leg like that is a real kick in the pants.

2. Martinelli. Holy ****, this kid is something else. Just gets better and better every game.

3. Mesut. That assist for AMN was absolutely beautiful. Looked to be involved a good deal on the offensive side of things.

4. Joe. ****ing. Willock. That goal left my jaw on the floor. Kid is something special. Thought he looked good most of the game.

Didn't bother to watch the pens as I had already seen the end scoreline by that point. Sounds like Tierney rallying the troops was special. Good on him. I hope he called his mum after the game to let her know how we did.

Really don't understand the sub of Torreira. Had a few passes go astray but I think overall he had a good match. If rumors about him crying when he came off are true, then I am even more upset. Emery been absolutely crushing this guy's confidence the past few months and this doesn't help. ****ing turd.
 

Big Poppa

Established Member
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Does that mean our defence would improve if we simply bought Sheffield United's defenders?

Pretty strange question.

They are effective as a defensive unit in the context of how they are set up to play as a team, ie compact, defending deep, absorbing pressure (hence being particularly strong in the air) and hitting teams on the counter.

Arsenal are trying to play a lot more with the ball so our defenders need to have composure, concentration and discipline but a bit more quality on the ball too.

The profile of defenders we have doesn’t fit all that, nor necessarily do Sheffield United’s. It’s not a binary question of defenders being better than each other but having the right balance of strengths across your defensive unit.

We are poor physically, lack leadership and lack discipline. This hasn’t changed since Sol Campbell disappeared at half time.
 

Gursha

Well-Known Member
The intelligence from Niles to halt his run when he saw Özil was in a better position to get it was as impressive as the actual Özil assist...
and very underrated.. everyone just see the amazing Özil assist
 

Make

Well-Known Member
When Özil touches the ball, I remembered that this team need it. He has all the players in her mind, he is a world class player and Özil MUST play every match.
 
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