Carabao Cup 4th Round: Liverpool v Arsenal | Wednesday October 30, 19:30 GMT | Sky Sports

Who will go through to the 5th Round?


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Hleb's Sirush

Well-Known Member
Dude, we don’t have a single defender who can make headed clearances more than 10 yards or mark properly at set pieces.

The game changed defensively for United in the 3 years they had Ferdinand, Vidic and Van Der Sar, Chelsea when they had Gallas, Terry and Cech and Pool with VVD, Alison, and Fabinho.

Their systems remained the same. I think we’ve just had weak defenders for so long at the back some of you have got used to them.

With van Dyke in this team over Mustafi we still leak silly goals but get at least 10 more points a season.

It is a given you need great defenders too. But without a coherent defensive setup individuals will always be woefully exposed.

I still find it hard to believe that the likes of Watford who haven't scored more than 1 goal a game all season, managed to score 2 against us and deserved to score easily 4 or 5. If that is caused by a lack of individual quality in our defenders, then they shouldn't even be playing the professional game at all.
 

Big Poppa

Established Member
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Welcome back bro!

Emery's another matter altogether. His team selections and substitutions are just bizarre. His tactics change constantly.

But Emery isn't telling Sokratis to go to ground and make rash tackles, or Luiz to pull shirts, Mustafi to not mark players, or Xhaka to make a late slide tackle in the box.

Exactly. We’ve been in the bottom 3 in the PL for individual errors leading to goals for about 3 years.

Both are a factor, but we keep signing defenders like Paulista, Vermaelen and Sokratis who have moments of quality but are absolute panic inducing nutters.
 

Steps

Well-Known Member
When was the last time we won it or any trophy? We're not exactly playing football that leaves us with confidence that we'll win the Fa cup or Europa are we?
TartOccasionalCondor-small.gif
 

Makingtrax

Planes, Trains & Social Media Rants
I give you Mustafi. Are the rest of our defenders that much worse than the defenders at other clubs beside Liverpool? Chelsea have Zouma, Christiansen, Timori etc, don't think those are better than ours. Even Man City, Stones, Otamendi, Fernandinho etc aren't really great defenders on their own.

And those are the top clubs. We are conceding more than mid table clubs. We definitely have better defenders than them.

We are giving away free kicks and penalties cos 90% of the game seems to be played in or around our penalty area. Luiz gave away more penalties in his first 4 games for us than in his entire Chelsea career. How can that be explained?

Watch when Liverpool or any team with any competent defensive system play. They hardly allow the opposition to reach the danger areas. Once they do, their defenders look like any defenders, nothing super special except VVD, who is obviously a great defender.

But to make the point again about the system. When I watch VVD play for the Dutch team, he doesn't look half as good as he does for Liverpool. They concede goals in every single game.

There are so many other example. When Ranieri took over at Leicester they were conceding for fun. He didn't change any personel, changed the system and suddenly they had an airtight defence. Kante was also crucial in that he shielded the defence, again the point they minimised the opposition having the ball near their penalty area.

Not saying our defenders are world beaters. But without a working defensive plan the defenders have got no hope in hell to succeed. Even if we bought a couple of world class defenders.
Put VVD in a worse defence and of course he won't look as good, trying to cover for the mistakes of others. That's a given. But he never makes stupid mistakes game after game, like ours do.
 

Makingtrax

Planes, Trains & Social Media Rants
Exactly. We’ve been in the bottom 3 in the PL for individual errors leading to goals for about 3 years.

Both are a factor, but we keep signing defenders like Paulista, Vermaelen and Sokratis who have moments of quality but are absolute panic inducing nutters.
Our defenders are not getting caught out through team positioning they're making careless and needless mistakes.
 

Trilly

Full-Time Respecter Of Women
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What have Arsenal fans actually done to deserve this type of regular embarrassment :lol:
I believe we were all absolute c*nts in a previous life and this is our punishment.

What hurts the most is that I'm the first football fan in my family and I went and chose this club pretty much as our golden era finished. My first football memory is Rooney diving to end our 49 game unbeaten run and it's been pretty much grim stuff since.:lol:
 

Pepes blue pill

Well-Known Member
I believe we were all absolute c*nts in a previous life and this is our punishment.

What hurts the most is that I'm the first football fan in my family and I went and chose this club pretty much as our golden era finished. My first football memory is Rooney diving to end our 49 game unbeaten run and it's been pretty much grim stuff since.:lol:

:lol::lol::lol::(:(:(
 

rich 1990

Not A Big Believer In Diversity
I believe we were all absolute c*nts in a previous life and this is our punishment.

What hurts the most is that I'm the first football fan in my family and I went and chose this club pretty much as our golden era finished. My first football memory is Rooney diving to end our 49 game unbeaten run and it's been pretty much grim stuff since.:lol:
Or in some cases, this life.
 

Kav

Well-Known Member
First off... what a game!

Today the team did us fans proud. I can respect that performance.

The defending was poor as usual but the commitment of the players was top notch. Even Mustafa made some good tackles. I loved the pressing and energy levels on display.

The youngsters made a statement today. Martinelli, Willock, Saka we're all exceptional.

I'm pleased with Torreira's performance.

Lastly, Paul, what a game. Makes you think what Emery was seeing all along to not want the artistry on display.

Downside- ceballos offered little after he came on.

Also will Mavropanos ever play for arsenal?
 

Trilly

Full-Time Respecter Of Women
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But he never makes stupid mistakes game after game, like ours do.
There's definitely some merit to the logic that our defenders are having to twice as much defending as their top six equivalents due to poor team setup.

I actually don't think the David Luiz we have is any worse than the one Chelsea had last season, be's just had to defend a whole lot more. That stat about him conceding the same amount of pens in however many games says it all.

One rule in (team?) sport is that elite offence always beats elite defence. In football you have to limit the amount of defending that your backline has to do because at the end of the day even VVD can get sat down by a no name forward player if left exposed.
 

Riou

Gatekeeper Of Mediocrity
When was the last time we won it or any trophy? We're not exactly playing football that leaves us with confidence that we'll win the Fa cup or Europa are we?

We are not winning the Premier league or Champions league...with how competitive the Europa and FA cup will be, I can't see us winning those, would be beyond shocked if we got in the top four and we aren't even playing amazing football anymore...kinda wanted a league cup win at this stage, as beggars can't be choosers :lol:
 

Riou

Gatekeeper Of Mediocrity
Dude, we don’t have a single defender who can make headed clearances more than 10 yards or mark properly at set pieces.

The game changed defensively for United in the 3 years they had Ferdinand, Vidic and Van Der Sar, Chelsea when they had Gallas, Terry and Cech and Pool with VVD, Alison, and Fabinho.

Their systems remained the same. I think we’ve just had weak defenders for so long at the back some of you have got used to them.

With van Dyke in this team over Mustafi we still leak silly goals but get at least 10 more points a season.

Haven't had a partnership as good as Sol-Kolo since and it shows, that got us an unbeaten league title and a Champions league final were we set a clean sheet record...Kos-Per was good though, couple of cheeky cups and constant top four...maybe Saliba can be our guy next year.
 

Mitch

Bellerin Upgrade Advocate
Haven't had a partnership as good as Sol-Kolo since and it shows, that got us an unbeaten league title and a Champions league final were we set a clean sheet record...Kos-Per was good though, couple of cheeky cups and constant top four...maybe Saliba can be our guy next year.

Senderos - Toure (with Eboue and Flamini as full backs) played the majority of that season that we broke CL defensive records at the time and got to the CL final. I think that might have been the only season we had Keown as defensive coach.
 

Red London

Anti-Simp Culture
Trusted ✔️
When was the last time we won it or any trophy? We're not exactly playing football that leaves us with confidence that we'll win the Fa cup or Europa are we?
Its just my opinion but I wouldn't bat an eye lid if we won this cup... it's just the way I see it.

FA cup I care about as thats a cup with a lot of history.
 

Riou

Gatekeeper Of Mediocrity
Senderos - Toure (with Eboue and Flamini as full backs) played the majority of that season that we broke CL defensive records at the time and got to the CL final. I think that might have been the only season we had Keown as defensive coach.

Meant having Sol and Kolo level defenders, that was a little confusing sorry...Toure was amazing generally for us, but 05-06 he was a damn monster in the Champions League run, was top class against all the top forwards he played that season...underrated leader too for me...helped having a top keeper in Lehmann, and a top DM in Gilberto too.
 

Hleb's Sirush

Well-Known Member
Senderos - Toure (with Eboue and Flamini as full backs) played the majority of that season that we broke CL defensive records at the time and got to the CL final. I think that might have been the only season we had Keown as defensive coach.

Sometimes all you need is to have a few defenders who compliment each other well, set them up in a system which gets the best out of them (which includes your midfield limiting how often they are exposed) and your defence can be fairly good as a unit without having a single world class defender between them.

No one can convince me Senderos, Eboue and Flamini are better defenders than the ones we current have.
 

Riou

Gatekeeper Of Mediocrity
Sometimes all you need is to have a few defenders who compliment each other well, set them up in a system which gets the best out of them (which includes your midfield limiting how often they are exposed) and your defence can be fairly good as a unit without having a single world class defender between them.

No one can convince me Senderos, Eboue and Flamini are better defenders than the ones we current have.

We had a much better attack and midfield which took the pressure of our defence back then...no one would attack us as much as today if we still had Henry, Fabregas, Pires, Ljungberg, Van Persie, Reyes, Hleb etc..plus Lehmann and Gilberto made a big difference to protecting/organising our defence.

Thought Eboue was a very good right back myself, and Toure was very close if not world class.
 
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