Chelsea FC: In The Mud(ryk)

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GDeep™

GDeep™

League is very weak
Henry boi

Henry boi

Well-Known Member
You
outlawz said:
Yeah...football is not for you mate.
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Don't know football if you can't see they have quality in their squad, just because they not performing doesn't change that, Enzo Fernandez, Palmar, Lavia, Caicedo, Codwil, Fofana. Nkukhu, Madueke, Gusto etc I'm having that over Man United or Tottenham squad.
If you don't think those are quality players maybe football is not for you lol
 
TornadoTed

TornadoTed

Established Member
There is a lot of potential in the Chelsea squad for sure but I'm not seeing any Ben White, Jorginho types, good solid consistent pros who give 7/10 week in, week out.

Every good team has a few of these, they are the solid foundations that allow the stars to shine. Man United are the same, through a combination of too young, too old, too injury prone they don't have any reliable, consistent players. This is why Chelsea and United can look decent one week and terrible the next in my opinion
 
D

DuBB

Active Member

Country: England
Henry boi said:
You
Don't know football if you can't see they have quality in their squad, just because they not performing doesn't change that, Enzo Fernandez, Palmar, Lavia, Caicedo, Codwil, Fofana. Nkukhu, Madueke, Gusto etc I'm having that over Man United or Tottenham squad.
If you don't think those are quality players maybe football is not for you lol
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Having high potential players, or even good ones, doesn't mean much if they're not compatible. Chelsea's squad, in almost every zone of the pitch, is littered with incompatible players. If Player X has certain traits and qualities, the players next to or behind them have to either have complimentary traits, or traits that cover Player X's weaknesses. And so on and so forth because those complimentary players are also next to and in front of/behind other players who need to compliment and cover them. So on and so forth.

That list of players you posted looks good as a list but how many of them make a good pairing, let alone a cohesive team or a successful area of the pitch.

Enzo, Caicedo and Lavia alone is a high potential trio of midfielders to have in a squad, but on a pitch would make a borderline criminal midfield 3 if they played together, as we've seen a lot this season when watching Caicedo and Enzo being absolutely bossed by everyone from Top 4 to Relegation Fodder.

Enzo and Caicedo are 2 different types of "3rd Midfielders" playing without an Anchor or a 6 who does the in-between jobs that neither of them can do. They're both co-stars who can win Best Supporting Actor operating without a Lead Actor to ground the film.

So yeah, as a list of players they've got a "quality squad" but in reality it's one of the worst constructed squads in modern football.
 
Henry boi

Henry boi

Well-Known Member
DuBB said:
Having high potential players, or even good ones, doesn't mean much if they're not compatible. Chelsea's squad, in almost every zone of the pitch, is littered with incompatible players. If Player X has certain traits and qualities, the players next to or behind them have to either have complimentary traits, or traits that cover Player X's weaknesses. And so on and so forth because those complimentary players are also next to and in front of/behind other players who need to compliment and cover them. So on and so forth.

That list of players you posted looks good as a list but how many of them make a good pairing, let alone a cohesive team or a successful area of the pitch.

Enzo, Caicedo and Lavia alone is a high potential trio of midfielders to have in a squad, but on a pitch would make a borderline criminal midfield 3 if they played together, as we've seen a lot this season when watching Caicedo and Enzo being absolutely bossed by everyone from Top 4 to Relegation Fodder.

Enzo and Caicedo are 2 different types of "3rd Midfielders" playing without an Anchor or a 6 who does the in-between jobs that neither of them can do. They're both co-stars who can win Best Supporting Actor operating without a Lead Actor to ground the film.

So yeah, as a list of players they've got a "quality squad" but in reality it's one of the worst constructed squads in modern football.
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Fair but you can't doubt their quality, I'm not debating the structure of the squad of cause it's a mess in how it's structured but i feel like you can't really cry poverty with that squad in my opinion like i said the upturn is crazy no wonder it's value is so high. I think they have less to do than United for example and as far as quality goes thier squad is a whole level above Sp**s. I think Arteta would have that squad working. The one thing they lack is a Striker and maybe two CBs, but still they have Codwill and Fofana there who are absolute quality but obviously are injured at the moment
I'm not sure how Enzo and Caicedo doesn't work if McAllister and Caicedo do. Maybe they miss a ten to occupy that Ødegaard role. Caicedo Enzo and Palmer as a AM? Or if they got a proper AM,
Balance wise that midfield is not so dissimilar from Partey Rice Ødegaard. Enzo and Caicedo arenot bad players i don't care what anyone says. I think what is really hurting them is they have no leaders or experience there, Thiago Silva was the only one, basically tons of Talent but no leaders(experience)
Arsenal on the other hand had Talent Saka etc but also leaders( experience) Xhaka Partey Jesus to lead them
 
Blood on the Tracks

Blood on the Tracks

Not A Fan Of Wokeness

Country: England

Player:Rice
Thing is you have to build a squad that is complimentary.

Just buying good players randomly isn't how you create a good side. Real life isn't Football Manager.

You watch Chelsea and they've got good individual players but it's not a cohesive or complimentary unit like at Man City or Arsenal.
 
D

DuBB

Active Member

Country: England
Henry boi said:
Fair but you can't doubt their quality, I'm not debating the structure of the squad of cause it's a mess in how it's structured but i feel like you can't really cry poverty with that squad in my opinion like i said the upturn is crazy no wonder it's value is so high. I think they have less to do than United for example and as far as quality goes thier squad is a whole level above Sp**s. I think Arteta would have that squad working. The one thing they lack is a Striker and maybe two CBs, but still they have Codwill and Fofana there who are absolute quality but obviously are injured at the moment
I'm not sure how Enzo and Caicedo doesn't work if McAllister and Caicedo do. Maybe they miss a ten to occupy that Ødegaard role. Caicedo Enzo and Palmer as a AM? Or if they got a proper AM,
Balance wise that midfield is not so dissimilar from Partey Rice Ødegaard. Enzo and Caicedo arenot bad players i don't care what anyone says. I think what is really hurting them is they have no leaders or experience there, Thiago Silva was the only one, basically tons of Talent but no leaders(experience)
Arsenal on the other hand had Talent Saka etc but also leaders( experience) Xhaka Partey Jesus to lead them
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Enzo and Caicedo don’t work because neither of them is a defensive midfielder (in the strictest sense), and neither of them is a tempo setting, metronome, heartbeat of the team Central Midfielder. Yes, I know Caicedo is defensive minded, but he is not, at this stage of his career, a sit and patrol DM.

Neither of them can receive the ball from the GK or CBs and regulate play as he sees fit, choosing when and where to probe the opposition and break lines or recycle play to get their team going down one side or the other.

And neither of them is a holding midfielder/defensive midfielder in the traditional sense. Enzo is not defensive minded, and Caicedo is a spatial defender and a player who harries and harasses opposition players, not one who reads play or a “always where he should be” defensive midfielder.

So what you have with the 2 of them is a midfield that is disconnected from the defence, doesn’t have the ability to connect that disconnected midfield to the forward line, and doesn’t have positional discipline and game intelligence of being in the right place at the right time.

When I described them both as “3rd Midfielders” that’s what I meant. But they’re both 3rd Midfielders for 2 different midfield builds:

Caicedo is a 3rd Midfielder who uses his athleticism and defensive skill to defend space and disrupt the opposition by being an unpredictable defender, not a disciplined one. He’s a game breaker in the defensive third. He's the perfect player to be the second man coming to double team an attacker or chase an attacker down, not one to stand in one zone and control it.

Enzo is a 3rd Midfielder who uses his spatial awareness going forward to be a jack of all trades space filler who pops up in good areas and is good enough at passing and good enough at shooting to be the EXTRA threat in the attacking third. He’s a game breaker in the attacking third.

So if you imagine it like this - one of your midfielders wants to drift away from the ball to hunt down and shut down attacking space, and the other midfielder wants to drift away from the ball to sniff out attacking space and pounce on attacking opportunities.

Thats two £100m+ midfielders who are floating away from each other in opposite directions, while also being two £100m+ midfielders whose instincts are to drift away from the ball.

So balance wise, to use your words, it's completely different from Partey(Jorginho)/Rice/Ødegaard.

All 3 of our midfielders are not only capable but happy to drop deeper to receive the ball from the GK or CBs. Rice is athletic and can hunt down the ball when the opposition have it, but he can also be disciplined. And if he's not disciplined, Partey and Jorginho's lack of legs means they're more apt to stay in the middle zone, so as to not leave the gap Rice has left too gaping. Jorginho and Partey can break lines from deep, connecting the defensive 3rd to the attacking one. Ødegaard is constantly moving to receive those passes, not drifting away from play. Etc. etc.

That's balance.
 
B

buckley17

Member
Blood on the Tracks said:
Thing is you have to build a squad that is complimentary.

Just buying good players randomly isn't how you create a good side. Real life isn't Football Manager.

You watch Chelsea and they've got good individual players but it's not a cohesive or complimentary unit like at Man City or Arsenal.
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I think the reason they have this is Boehly based it on his experience with the Los Angeles Dodgers. In baseball you just need to line up 9 great hitters and a bunch of top pitchers and you will usually have a good team. It's basically an individual-based team sport. Boehly did not understand football.
 
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