Discussion in 'Arsenal Talk' started by redanddread, Nov 20, 2017.
Loosing Sven is a massive blow regardless of how people dress it up
Some people will make believe as if Frannie stepping up is a better thing.
Think people are misunderstanding signing Monchi if we do
He has a proven track record of signing players for cheap and then turning out to be very valuable because they are good players.
Whether you cash in on them is up to the ethos of the club. Just because we sign Monchi doesn’t mean we have to sell the players he finds because Sevilla did
The guy was a boss 5-10 years ago. Not seen much impressive work since & Romas last window seemed a bit of a 120m dud.
I think, that he put a release clause in his contract for a reason. Arsenal is a bigger club than Roma.
I love the "handpicked by Emery" just for the meltdown it causes around here.
It’s not a massive blow if we adequately replace him.
I’d be amazed if we get Monchi but he isn’t just an adequate replacement, he’s a serious upgrade.
One thing I have to give Sven credit for (in addition to some good signings) is that it's incredible how quickly he developed a cult following among some Arsenal fans. The Cult of Sven. The guy is a great scout. But he's not the only one.
Arsenal fans who probably never heard of Sven until he was hired have convinced themselves that he would be the savior of the club, but you have to realize that the club's scouting network is more important than the single person at the top of the scouting pyramid. I remember reading an interview with Steve Rowley quite a few years ago where he talked about having 12 scouts in England alone as well as a network of scouts across Europe and the Americas. The truth is, Arsenal probably employs somewhere between 50 and 100 scouts on a full-time or part-time basis. They're not all leaving.
Arsenal will be fine without Sven. They'll bring in a great technical director, be it Monchi (which appears unlikely), Overmars, Edu or somebody else. They're not going to just hire somebody off the street outside the stadium. Frannie Cagigao -- even though you've never heard of him -- has been an integral part of Arsenal's scouting success for many years.
Calm down. Climb down off the bridge. It will be fine. Arsenal is losing a top man. But they'll do just fine without him. If he were the only person who could make great signings, there wouldn't be clubs all over the world making great signings.
Cagigao has been part of the club that scouted and then signed Yaya Sanogo. Forgive me if I'm doubtful of his expertise.
We wanted something different and all we got is someone who has been part of this mess for years.
IF Sven leaving means Monchi is coming in, then by all means. But only if that's the situation.
Way to cherry pick. Besides, Yaya Sanogo is French. That's not his territory. That would have been Grimandi.
I would also point out that Sven Mislintat was the chief scout who signed Ditimar Rangelov, Julian Koch, Moritz Leitner, Marc Hornschuh, Marco Steipermann, Hendrik Bonmann, Jeremy Dudziak, Adrian Ramos and Ju-Ho Park. How did those work out?
By the way, you haven't always been a big fan of Sven's signings:
I think you just like to ***** about everything.
The reason why Mislintat leaving is made a big deal is purely because of the way the club announced his arrival, he was hyped as the saviour by the club, has delivered so far and now he‘s gone and yet we‘re expected to lap up this guy who was already here this entire time and helped bring us to the position we‘re in. Nah.
As for your digging up old posts about Mislintat signings, not sure how that is relevant to the discussion at hand? I was obviously wrong about these signings which is why I‘m such a big fan of Mislintats work now. Do I have to bring up all the posts of you hyping up Mislintat‘s signings and Mislintat himself, to make you look like a hyprocite now? I would but I really can‘t be bothered.
I agree with you about the cherry picking thing, but that's an odd bunch you have picked there to try and prove a point Most of those are youth products or BVB II signings, or free signings. The only significant signings in there where Ramos (who actually did a decent job for Dortmund by the way) and Park, who cost around 2-3 mill.
But of course, not all his work panned out at Dortmund, be crazy if it did. For a significant segement of his time there the club was handcuffed by the amount of money they could spend, and I think it's fair to say it's a lot harder to hit gold when that is the case.
I don't recall the club hyping Sven as any sort of savior. Of course they introduced him in the best light possible, as they would anyone.
As for any posts I may or may not have made "hyping up Mislintat's signings," it would be completely irrelevant because I'm not saying anything bad about Sven Mislintat now. See, I just said this in the post above yours:
I also said this in the same post:
So how would any previous posts "hyping up Mislintat's signings" be in any way hypocritical? Now had I been saying "Man, that Sven sucks! Sure am glad to be rid of him!" then you might have an argument here. But you don't.
What I'm saying is that Sven isn't the only great scout, that nobody is irreplaceable and that if Sven is not on the same page as Sanllehi and Emery as far as a vision for the future goes, then it's best to resolve it now rather than letting it fester and causing bad feelings and division at the club (as happened between Sven and Tuchel at Dortmund). How you can misconstrue that as somehow bashing Sven, I can't possibly fathom.
One thing I haven't seen anyone mention is that I would assume that in his 12+ months here he would have identified and recommended dozens of signings, they don't just poof out of existence on 8th February.
Maybe there was a clash of personalities, maybe Sven took the hump at being 'demoted' we may never know but I think he was/is highly thought of as a scout and I'm sure Raul and any incumbent will look at Sven's lists, dossiers, or however they are presented.
We could still be getting Sven's 'diamonds' for the next 2-3 windows.
Well, Yaya Sanogo was a 19-year-old who was playing for Auxerre in the French 2nd division (and had actually played more games for Auxerre B in the 4th division) when Arsenal signed him for a minimal compensation fee. So...
And that was my point. You can cherry pick signings that didn't work out for anyone.
Have you heard of the saying „Anything before the word BUT is bullshit“? You say that Mislintat is a „top man“ and then go on to downplay everything he has done here and in Dortmund and make it look like this guy Cagigao can come in and do just as well. Sven Mislintat is a world class scout that many clubs envied to have, it was the one thing we could big up in comparison to our rivals. This dude who was already here and has shown that he is nothing special compared to Mislintat is now supposed to replace him and we‘ll be „fine“, that is just more delusional crap coming from you.
@BobP posted an interesting breakdown that someone did of the situation in another thread. It made some excellent points. I've copied and pasted the section most pertinent to Sven's leaving the club:
Sanllehi is looking for a Technical Director. At first blush, Sven seems like a shoo-in for the position. He's already here at the club and he was specifically brought in to recruit players for the club. Not only brought in, but appointed in a pretty high-profile transfer. Going from being one of three members of the leadership team to working directly for Raul is already a demotion in power. Putting a Technical Director in between the two only further reduces Mislintat's influence. However there are a few other considerations.
"just because Mislintat is doing well in his current job doesn't mean he needs a promotion".
As dismissive as this sounds, it's absolutely true. In Sanllehi's mind, a Technical Director needs a lot more than just an eye for talent or the ability to spot a good deal. Barcelona Technical Directors not only are in charge of selecting transfer targets, but involved in hiring and firing the first team manager, as well as imposing a certain style of play. Barca isn't just looking for talented players and coaching staff, but players and staff that can play according to the values imparted by their legendary manager, Johan Cruyff. The specifically look to recruit former players into their coaching staff and leadership. It's important to the whole club that everyone involved in the process understands Barca's history and values. *cue some "more than club" bullshit while ****ting on every other club while trying to sign their star players. See: Fabregas, Coutinho, Dembele, etc.*
IMO, Sanllehi is looking to build this Barcelona model for management here at Arsenal on the values imparted by our legendary manager, Arsène Wenger. The candidates for both the vacant manager position last summer and the technical director position now are populated by former Arsenal players - specifically ones that played under Wenger. Henry and Vieira were both linked to the manager's job while Arteta was widely considered to be the leader through most of the selection process. Two of the three names I have seen linked to the Technical Director position are experienced directors that are *also* former Arsenal players - Edu Gaspar and Marc Overmars. Monchi is the third. So the general trend for new hires is they have to be either at the top of their game or be former Arsenal players, ideally both.
If this overall model is true, then it should not be surprising that shortly after Sanllehi's promotion, Per Mertseacker was promoted to Arsenal's 15-man Executive Team:
Meanwhile, it can also be revealed that Per Mertesacker, the club’s former captain, has been promoted to the club’s executive team...
...He has been joined on the executive team by Huss Fahmy, the former Team Sky legal and commercial expert who has been promoted to director of football operations, as the club look to increase the “football representation” at decision-making levels.
Mertesacker and Fahmy are joined by Sanllehi and Sven Mislintat, the head of recruitment, as the four footballing representatives on the 15-man executive team, which managing director Vinai Venkatesham said “encompasses everything that we do as an organisation”.
From all accounts it looks like Sanllehi is interested in both increasing the amount of footballing experience among management at the club, and also increasing the amount of "Arsenal" at the management of the club. If Mislintat leaves and is replaced with an internal appointment and either Edu or Overmars are appointed Technical Director, then there would be 3 long term players or club servants in leadership when a couple of years ago there were none.
After diving into his past, reading his comments, the comments of other fans and journalists, I feel a little better about how things are going. If Mislintat feels slighted and wants to move, I can't really blame him. But if that's the case then I blame Gazidis more than Sanllehi. Gazidis brought Mislintat in and I'm sure sold him on a vision for the club that included his participation to a higher degree. But then Ivan ****ed off to Italy and now Sanllehi has been entrusted with the future of the club and Raul can not make decisions based on Ivan's promises or Sven's feelings. Maybe Sanllehi's plans don't work out, maybe they do. But either way, this whole transition settles the question of who is calling the shots at Arsenal Football Club. And for once, decisions are actually being made. Unless there's some genuine personality rift between the two, I am inclined to think that Sanllehi is choosing the Technical Director based on his own priorities which are highly-influenced by his 15 years at Barcelona, rather than ****ting on Mislintat intentionally. It seems more as if Gazidis tried to have his cake and eat it too and with him gone we have to pick one or the other, which isn't really anyone's fault but Ivan's.
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