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Cobra Kai Havertz: Kai The Redeemer

Will Kai prove to be a Xhaka upgrade?

  • Yes

  • No


Results are only viewable after voting.

Farzad

Stormy's Lifetime Fan and Subscriber #1 🫶🏽

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
1. He didn't only play as CF at Chelsea

2. He has better goals per game over Giroud as a striker for Arsenal. So you decided to compare midfield appearances because you couldn't win the debate with like vs like
Nonsense you mean his 6 match sample where he scored 3 goals which is a slight bump on Giroud’s 200 matches.

Ok so Kai is a midfielder now? Can’t compare him to other strikers goal numbers because it isn’t fair. Ok let’s compare Kai’s passing to other midfielders. If it isn’t fair to compare him to strikers goal numbers what is his excuse for getting out assist rated by Giroud as well?

So his strike rate is half of Giroud’s who you think is worst striker ever, i thought he wasn’t starting Arsenal quality striker myself. Ok how does terrible striker Giroud also out assist Kai?

Sorry as limited as Giroud was as a footballer Kai is worse. In 4 years in league he is scoring half as much goals and the newly minted midfielder can’t out assist Giroud either
 

PrinzPoldi

Active Member

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
Nonsense you mean his 6 match sample where he scored 3 goals which is a slight bump on Giroud’s 200 matches.

Ok so Kai is a midfielder now? Can’t compare him to other strikers goal numbers because it isn’t fair. Ok let’s compare Kai’s passing to other midfielders. If it isn’t fair to compare him to strikers goal numbers what is his excuse for getting out assist rated by Giroud as well?

So his strike rate is half of Giroud’s who you think is worst striker ever, i thought he wasn’t starting Arsenal quality striker myself. Ok how does terrible striker Giroud also out assist Kai?

Sorry as limited as Giroud was as a footballer Kai is worse. In 4 years in league he is scoring half as much goals and the newly minted midfielder can’t out assist Giroud either
He was and he is always a midfielder.
He was an attacking midfielder, and this season Arsenal listed him as midfielder.
Tell me you have more correct information than the club.
We all know Arteta bought him to play midfield. Thanks to Jesus' injuries and Eddie (not good enough), we put him as striker, but he IS NOT our main/starting striker.

If you want to use someone's whole Arsenal career numbers to compare one who only play a few games more than half a season, this shows your ignorance and intelligence.
In the end, Giroud averaged 12 goals a season as an out and out striker. What good it is to brag about, when you had Özil and Carzola played behind you?

Of course, when you started comparing a striker and a midfielder, this already showed how much you know about football and basic logic.

Even as LCM, Kai has a completely different role from what Xhaka had, and difficult to compare them, you dare to use Giroud to compare Kai.

Well done.
 

MutableEarth

Reiss' Dad
Trusted ⭐
Kai is taller and faster, and produces more like what you expect from a backup striker.

Eddie has to produce. If a guy is producing more at your position then you gotta sit.

The more interesting move is what Arteta does once Jesus is healthy.
Eddie is a square peg for a round hole and that's only becoming more clear every time Arteta tries a new option in that starting berth. Eddie is functional in that CF role but only up to a point until the chips are down then he starts being regular Eddie - taking up spots in the box/final 3rd to look for a shot rather than facilitating the play and helping to knit the attack the way that Havertz and Trossard has done in Jesus' absence.

I'm very intrigued by what Arteta's plan is once Jesus returns properly from his injury. A new dynamic has been established with Havertz and the two wide men in Saka/Martinelli - and there's even a partnership of sorts with Trossard, who's the spare man. Jesus shouldn't get his spot back so easily, as much as I like him.

Speaking of Havertz, I'm still keeping my reservations about him but I'm gonna be loud in my praise as I am in my criticism. He's been an excellent outlet in recent weeks, and despite my misgivings about him, he's been a significant part of one of the best runs I've seen this team on (sans Porto away) for a long time.
 

Farzad

Stormy's Lifetime Fan and Subscriber #1 🫶🏽

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
He was and he is always a midfielder.
He was an attacking midfielder, and this season Arsenal listed him as midfielder.
Tell me you have more correct information than the club.
We all know Arteta bought him to play midfield. Thanks to Jesus' injuries and Eddie (not good enough), we put him as striker, but he IS NOT our main/starting striker.

If you want to use someone's whole Arsenal career numbers to compare one who only play a few games more than half a season, this shows your ignorance and intelligence.
In the end, Giroud averaged 12 goals a season as an out and out striker. What good it is to brag about, when you had Özil and Carzola played behind you?

Of course, when you started comparing a striker and a midfielder, this already showed how much you know about football and basic logic.

Even as LCM, Kai has a completely different role from what Xhaka had, and difficult to compare them, you dare to use Giroud to compare Kai.

Well done.
He was not a midfielder at Chelsea, we watched him. He was not always an attack midfielder total bollocks. Ok compare his passing numbers to other midfielders.

If Kai Havertz has always been an attack midfielder, (which he hasn’t) then let’s compare his passing to other attack midfielders. How is Kai’s assist numbers or touches per game compared to Ode who plays the same position on same team? His passing numbers are even worse than his comical striking.

You want to hold him to no standards, you are the one with agenda. When it suits you he is a forward can’t compare his passing to other midfielders. When it comes to comparing his joke striking then it isn’t fair to compare him to strikers.

You just rate him divorced from his stats and track record which is a joke anywhere in attack. Then you pretend other people are stupid and dishonest when you are the one
 

ArsenesCoatMaker

Established Member
Nonsense you mean his 6 match sample where he scored 3 goals which is a slight bump on Giroud’s 200 matches.

Ok so Kai is a midfielder now? Can’t compare him to other strikers goal numbers because it isn’t fair. Ok let’s compare Kai’s passing to other midfielders. If it isn’t fair to compare him to strikers goal numbers what is his excuse for getting out assist rated by Giroud as well?

So his strike rate is half of Giroud’s who you think is worst striker ever, i thought he wasn’t starting Arsenal quality striker myself. Ok how does terrible striker Giroud also out assist Kai?

Sorry as limited as Giroud was as a footballer Kai is worse. In 4 years in league he is scoring half as much goals and the newly minted midfielder can’t out assist Giroud either

I think Havertz range of passing is his relative weakness. The side of his midfield ability you ignore though is how he wins duals, stops counter attacks by dropping deep to defend or wins the ball back.

Against Newcastle they were counter attacking. Havertz tracks back, tackles the attacking player, plays a 1-2 and then rolls the ball on for Saka. The Newcastle defense aren't back in shape because they were counter attacking a few seconds earlier. This gives Saka more time to get his shot away and he hence scores. You ignore the stages of play and claim his assist was an easy pass. If you can't see a player tracking back and winning the ball back and stopping a counter attack is brilliant midfield play in itself then you don't understand the game. Not only that but we get a goal because of Havertz involvement.

Part of the reason we're so much more solid defensively this season is Havertz's closing down opposition counter attacks. In the same game ESR and Nelson comes on, they don't track the runner and we conceded because of this.

The other part of his midfield ability you ignore is his ability to be all over the pitch. In the defensive phase he will be back as 1 of the deepest players closing down opposition. Yet in attack he'll be one of the highest up the pitch. He has remarkable stamina and pace to be able to do this. No one else in this squad covers as much of the pitch as Havertz does.
 

rotateta

Member

Country: England
Arguing with Farzad seems pointless, he has made up his mind that Havertz is a waste of money.

Havertz started slowly, Chelsea robbed him of both confidence and a clear role in the team. He was shoe-horned in as a striker, there is an argument we are doing the same now but his role is way more complex than that of a traditional number 9 or what he was doing at Chelsea.

I agree that he has been underwhelming as a left-sided midfielder, his current role does seem to be a better fit.

I find the Giroud - Havertz comparisons interesting, both are tall and offer something in the air, however I don't think there is any contest as to who fits our current style most - it would be Havertz as a traditional number 9 hampers our play. Our set up play is all about causing chaos and goals coming from across the team. Havertz assists in that regard, I think Giroud would simply nullify the impact of those around him and reduce the overall number of goals we score.

Rather than argue over whether he is a forward or midfielder just accept his current role seems to suit him better than where he was before, and that he is not a traditional number 9. Regardless of what many pundits say that is the very last type of player we need to get the best out of our squad.
 

PrinzPoldi

Active Member

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
1/Arguing with Farzad seems pointless, he has made up his mind that Havertz is a waste of money.

Havertz started slowly, Chelsea robbed him of both confidence and a clear role in the team. 2/He was shoe-horned in as a striker, there is an argument we are doing the same now but his role is way more complex than that of a traditional number 9 or what he was doing at Chelsea.

I agree that he has been underwhelming as a left-sided midfielder, his current role does seem to be a better fit.

I find the Giroud - Havertz comparisons interesting, both are tall and offer something in the air, however I don't think there is any contest as to who fits our current style most - it would be Havertz as a traditional number 9 hampers our play. Our set up play is all about causing chaos and goals coming from across the team. Havertz assists in that regard, I think Giroud would simply nullify the impact of those around him and reduce the overall number of goals we score.

Rather than argue over whether he is a forward or midfielder just accept his current role seems to suit him better than where he was before, and that he is not a traditional number 9. Regardless of what many pundits say that is the very last type of player we need to get the best out of our squad.
1/ Actually it is.

2/ Even Tuchel said he did not know which position is best for Kai. He played there just because of tactical reason; not because he WAS a striker. Someone just does not have the logic and common sense.
 

DJ_Markstar

Based and Artetapilled

Player:Martinelli
Eddie is a square peg for a round hole and that's only becoming more clear every time Arteta tries a new option in that starting berth. Eddie is functional in that CF role but only up to a point until the chips are down then he starts being regular Eddie - taking up spots in the box/final 3rd to look for a shot rather than facilitating the play and helping to knit the attack the way that Havertz and Trossard has done in Jesus' absence.

I'm very intrigued by what Arteta's plan is once Jesus returns properly from his injury. A new dynamic has been established with Havertz and the two wide men in Saka/Martinelli - and there's even a partnership of sorts with Trossard, who's the spare man. Jesus shouldn't get his spot back so easily, as much as I like him.

Speaking of Havertz, I'm still keeping my reservations about him but I'm gonna be loud in my praise as I am in my criticism. He's been an excellent outlet in recent weeks, and despite my misgivings about him, he's been a significant part of one of the best runs I've seen this team on (sans Porto away) for a long time.

Tbh I don't think its a simple "who plays in the XI" dynamic. We know Jesus is capable in all 3 forward positions and we know Kai can play 9 and 8, so it comes down to who are we playing and how can Arteta use the players at his disposal.

A great problem to have, since our bench will look incredibly strong once injuries subside a bit.
 

Farzad

Stormy's Lifetime Fan and Subscriber #1 🫶🏽

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
I think Havertz range of passing is his relative weakness. The side of his midfield ability you ignore though is how he wins duals, stops counter attacks by dropping deep to defend or wins the ball back.

Against Newcastle they were counter attacking. Havertz tracks back, tackles the attacking player, plays a 1-2 and then rolls the ball on for Saka. The Newcastle defense aren't back in shape because they were counter attacking a few seconds earlier. This gives Saka more time to get his shot away and he hence scores. You ignore the stages of play and claim his assist was an easy pass. If you can't see a player tracking back and winning the ball back and stopping a counter attack is brilliant midfield play in itself then you don't understand the game. Not only that but we get a goal because of Havertz involvement.

Part of the reason we're so much more solid defensively this season is Havertz's closing down opposition counter attacks. In the same game ESR and Nelson comes on, they don't track the runner and we conceded because of this.

The other part of his midfield ability you ignore is his ability to be all over the pitch. In the defensive phase he will be back as 1 of the deepest players closing down opposition. Yet in attack he'll be one of the highest up the pitch. He has remarkable stamina and pace to be able to do this. No one else in this squad covers as much of the pitch as Havertz does.
Rice is there to do that job. Look I didn’t say Kai isn’t trying. Or that he isn’t good in the air he is, he also presses but so do all our attackers. Martinelli doesn’t press and track back he has bailed Zinny out more than half a dozen times tracking back. Saka presses, Ode presses, Jesus presses; and Rice is ball winning machine. All those attackers press and then do something in attack.

Not only is he below average at striking and awful in passing but this weakness impacts entire build up. He is destroying poor Martinelli by not finishing his chances and starving him of through balls that are the best part of his game to run onto that ball.

Sorry, as a team all our attackers press but it isnt enough. We got wingers who track back and fight; but then are expected to produce goals, Ode as well. The damage he does is not outweighed by headers and defensive contributions
 

Blankety Blank

emoji merchant
I don't care if people wanna class Havertz as a striker or midfielder.
As long as he is useful to the team that will do for me.
People get far too hung up on their ideas of what a striker or attacking mid should offer.

Havertz strikes me as very much a hard working unselfish player who offers us something a bit different.

At the very LEAST he offers us intelligent movement, pressing ability, height & good defensive awareness.
There are plenty of expensive footballers that don't these attributes.

He's often not the easiest on the eye 👁️ but looks useful to have.
We are doing well as a team & he is playing his part.
I would like to think he can still improve has more in his locker.
 

Farzad

Stormy's Lifetime Fan and Subscriber #1 🫶🏽

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
1/ Actually it is.

2/ Even Tuchel said he did not know which position is best for Kai. He played there just because of tactical reason; not because he WAS a striker. Someone just does not have the logic and common sense.
You sell bs, and have been exposed. You are just a fan boy who will clap furiously if he heads it or makes a 5 yard pass
 

Farzad

Stormy's Lifetime Fan and Subscriber #1 🫶🏽

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
I don't care if people wanna class Havertz as a striker or midfielder.
As long as he is useful to the team that will do for me.
People get far too hung up on their ideas of what a striker or attacking mid should offer.

Havertz strikes me as very much a hard working unselfish player who offers us something a bit different.
At the very LEAST he offers us intelligent movement, pressing ability, height & good defensive awareness.

He's often not the easiest on the eye 👁️ but certainly looks useful to have.
We are doing well as a team & he is playing his part.
As i said Mik is not a coach but a cult leader. Now to justify the boffhead’s crazy transfer; strikers shouldn’t be expected to score, and attack midfielders shouldn’t be expected to be able to pass; and Kai shouldn’t be expected to do either, but is great. Why? Because Swami Mik has anointed him one with the Project.
 

Blankety Blank

emoji merchant
As i said Mik is not a coach but a cult leader. Now to justify the boffhead’s crazy transfer; strikers shouldn’t be expected to score, and attack midfielders shouldn’t be expected to be able to pass; and Kai shouldn’t be expected to do either, but is great. Why? Because Swami Mik has anointed him one with the Project?
Team & Rookie cult leader is doing well.


FACTS:

Only Peps corruption squad & Klopps juiced up Pool are seriously competing with us in the Prem.


Come on Brother Farz, jump aboard the Tets Choo Choo baby 🚂.😜😂
 

DJ_Markstar

Based and Artetapilled

Player:Martinelli
Team & Rookie cult leader is doing well.


FACTS:

Only Peps corruption squad & Klopps juiced up Pool are seriously competing with us in the Prem.


Come on Brother Farz, jump aboard the Tets Choo Choo baby 🚂.😜😂

You won't be swaying brother Farzad he's too far into his Sunk Cost Fallacy now, but you have other brothers who are at least getting off the "Tets is a bum" train so that'll do for me.
 

Farzad

Stormy's Lifetime Fan and Subscriber #1 🫶🏽

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
Team & Rookie cult leader is doing well.


FACTS:

Only Peps corruption squad & Klopps juiced up Pool are seriously competing with us in the Prem.


Come on Brother Farz, jump aboard the Tets Choo Choo baby 🚂.😜😂
I already set my criteria for joining he has to win something big. He was the reason we lost last year more than City doing anything. But i am not wearing robes or selling stuff at the airport for Mik
 

Rain Dance

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
In the end, Giroud averaged 12 goals a season as an out and out striker. What good it is to brag about, when you had Özil and Carzola played behind you?
...........this is wrong. Giroud average is higher than 12 goals a season. Ffs guys, you can look up transfermarkt.

In fact, Giroud's lowest goal tally in premiership is 11 Premiership goals ( cause the idiots here likes to count only Premiership goals) back in 2012/2013. So yeah the math ain't math-ing already by this standard already.
12/13 he scored 19 goals all comp
13/14 he scored 22 goals all comp
15/16 he scored 19 goals all comp
16/17 he scored 25 goals all comp
17/18 he scored 14 goals all comp
18/19 he scored 7 for us and 5 for Chelsea all comp

Giroud averaged around 18.5 to 19 goals/ season. Far from 12 goals/season BS
 

PrinzPoldi

Active Member

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
...........this is wrong. Giroud average is higher than 12 goals a season. Ffs guys, you can look up transfermarkt.

In fact, Giroud's lowest goal tally in premiership is 11 Premiership goals ( cause the idiots here likes to count only Premiership goals) back in 2012/2013. So yeah the math ain't math-ing already by this standard already.
12/13 he scored 19 goals all comp
13/14 he scored 22 goals all comp
15/16 he scored 19 goals all comp
16/17 he scored 25 goals all comp
17/18 he scored 14 goals all comp
18/19 he scored 7 for us and 5 for Chelsea all comp

Giroud averaged around 18.5 to 19 goals/ season. Far from 12 goals/season BS
we were talking 180 league games 73 goals, pal.
in 6 seasons, wasn't 12 goals averaged per season?

read before you reply.
 

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