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Cobra Kai Havertz: Kai The Redeemer

Will Kai prove to be a Xhaka upgrade?

  • Yes

  • No


Results are only viewable after voting.

lomekian

Essays are my thing
What's intriguing about Havertz is that he is now contributing at a level that makes him a genuinely useful player for us, and we've still seen none of the playmaking or finishing we saw at Leverkusen. Has that gone for good, or can he rediscover it as he gets increasingly confident and comfortable?
 

PrinzPoldi

Active Member

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
Of course it isn't, because basically only now at Arsenal he has played his better role which is a false 9 (or AMF), not a normal striker like I think at Chelsea mostly. Players like Giroud have played the striker position since youth, so it's understandable Havertz needs more time to play that position well in the best league in the world.

I'm not sure why you think he is a deficient passer. His pass completion in EPL is 82% this season. I guess you mean that he hasn't done that many through passes etc.

He can get better with confidence now that he is adjusted to the team, but you clearly fail to understand his role. Ødegaard is the one who makes those passes mostly in midfield. Havertz role is to keep the ball safely with the team, make fast one-two passes, run at space, press and defend hard etc.

It really seems like you don't know much about the player, and just had blind hate since the beginning. While it looks more and more that us who knew the player, were right to want him.

Watch this 6,5 min video if you want to see what he can do. The video also shows how many chances his team mates have ruined with bad finishing etc. Especially last season Chelsea's finishing (and play) was horrendous (Havertz' finishing too), so Havertz didn't have the end-product he should have in a normal team and year. He should have had many more assists. That's why I was surprised and very happy that Chelsea made him available to a rival.

Him being versatile is great, as Arteta requires players who can easily switch positions during the game depending on the situation.

to make this short, if Kai was/is that **** like King Farzad said, can't shoot, can't pass, wondering why there were teams wanted his service when he was out from Leverkusen and labeled as the golden boy.

he wasn't even 6'3"/6'4" when first joined Chelsea, so it was not like he had the package to be that target man because of his height/size.

he was a midfielder and had the midfielder's skills (passing, dribbling) but not yet to showcase his abilities other than winning duels and being defensive with Arsenal. All those jobs belongs to Ode and Saka so far.

He is here to complement the team, and to do his job under Arteta.

Of course, King Farzad doesn't rate Arteta, so his opinion on Kai/Arteta does make sense.
Pure hate.
 

Farzad

Stormy's Lifetime Fan and Subscriber #1 🫶🏽

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
Of course it isn't, because basically only now at Arsenal he has played his better role which is a false 9 (or AMF), not a normal striker like I think at Chelsea mostly. Players like Giroud have played the striker position since youth, so it's understandable Havertz needs more time to play that position well in the best league in the world.

I'm not sure why you think he is a deficient passer. His pass completion in EPL is 82% this season. I guess you mean that he hasn't done that many through passes etc.

He can get better with confidence now that he is adjusted to the team, but you clearly fail to understand his role. Ødegaard is the one who makes those passes mostly in midfield. Havertz role is to keep the ball safely with the team, make fast one-two passes, run at space, press and defend hard etc.

It really seems like you don't know much about the player, and just had blind hate since the beginning. While it looks more and more that us who knew the player, were right to want him.

Watch this 6,5 min video if you want to see what he can do. The video also shows how many chances his team mates have ruined with bad finishing etc. Especially last season Chelsea's finishing (and play) was horrendous (Havertz' finishing too), so Havertz didn't have the end-product he should have in a normal team and year. He should have had many more assists. That's why I was surprised and very happy that Chelsea made him available to a rival.

Him being versatile is great, as Arteta requires players who can easily switch positions during the game depending on the situation.

He is terrible at through balls which running on to those is one if the best parts of Martinelli’s game. He also is bad in the build up in general. He doesn’t average nearly enough touches for his position because he is bad in the build ip and he knows it; and moreover is hiding.

Look the advanced stats show he is poor passer and do foes the eyeball. Whether he improves or not should not even be an issue. He is nit a project player like Tavares. He is being paid 1.2 million and being featured every week for contender. Now is not the time to learn if he is even capable of being competent as a distributor or playmaker.

And absolutely his lack of production as both a goal scorer and play maker has hurt Martinelli. Don’t tell me the data supports Kai being remotely competent in this area it doesn’t
 

db10_therza

🎵 Edu getting rickrolled 🎵
Trusted ⭐

Country: Bangladesh

Player:White
I see you maneuvering for that Mod role

recess GIF

All the agg of a real job without any pay? Not for me bro. @A_G can sleep soundly at night there’s no competition here 😂

Idk what Jedi mind tricks @albakos pulls to get these guys on board that train…
 

drippin

Obsessed with "Mature Trusted Members"

Country: Finland
What's intriguing about Havertz is that he is now contributing at a level that makes him a genuinely useful player for us, and we've still seen none of the playmaking or finishing we saw at Leverkusen. Has that gone for good, or can he rediscover it as he gets increasingly confident and comfortable?
I found a great article about Havertz' growth spurts. He has had two apparently, once when young and one about the time when he went to Chelsea.

It's no wonder that he had problems there from the beginning, when he had to adjust to a taller body.

It's just another reason why Havertz has needed more time than expected to develop to a top player. There is no reason to think that he can't become more like in those Leverkusen days after he is truly settled in his frame. Not the same, but skills and vision don't just disappear totally. This means that even as a teenage wonder, he will likely become a late-bloomer after having a few tougher years. Weird if one player can have both happen.

He is a very intelligent footballer, and his physical attributes and skillset are quite unique. What that frame also brings along with his target man and hold-up play, is his ability to tackle from far away with his reach.

It's interesting that this article says that Havertz will never fit the LCM role at Arsenal & that he is more comfortable as the RCM, which we all know. I said at the time that Havertz was bought to rotate false 9 and AMF (meaning Ødegaard rotation). I thought he might at most play LCM against easier opponents. I didn't expect him to translate his striker defensive qualites so well to LCM, but that just shows his football IQ and overall skills.

Partey's injury (and Jorginho's niggles) forced Arteta to use Havertz as the LCM only. If you remember, against City in the Community Shield win Havertz played false 9, and quite well. Partey-Rice-Ødegaard midfield. Next season this will be seen more, after Havertz takes Nketiah's place for good, and there is more durable quality depth in midfield. Two target men strikers is the way to go, so you can have one on the field all the time, especially to evade high press.

The article is much longer, but I picked the most important parts in my view. It's from last December.

When things aren’t going well for Kai Havertz many point towards his Leverkusen work as a reference to what once was and as a vehicle to lament the player that is. One thing that people get right when talking about those times is this: he was a very different player at Bayer, just watching him he was simply more fluid, more comfortable and a far bigger threat out wide (he even played a fair portion of his games on the right) than the player we see today. He was primarily a shadow striker at Bayer though, and a good one at that- quick, incisive and had the all important understanding of space, it was like if you gave Thomas Müller the physical gifts that he famously lacks.
There’s been two big growth spurts in Kai Havertz’s footballing career thus far, one at age 14 when he went from the shortest kid on the team to the tallest and scuppered his dreams of replicating his childhood idol Lionel Messi (in playstyle that is…). More pertinent to this piece though was one roughly around 2020 when he went from the fluid, comfortable player that we saw at Bayer to the slightly unsettled, tentative mover that we’ve seen for the past few years. Most sites had Kai Havertz listed at roughly 6"2 during his time at Bayer, fast forward to his transfer to Arsenal and he’s the tallest player at the football club at around 6"4.

This growth spurt didn’t come at a good time either, his move to Chelsea was one that wasn’t particularly comfortable for him initially. He was frequently injured in his first season at Chelsea with him also contracting COVID-19 during the period.
His change in height left him uncoordinated, slower, a (statistically) weaker finisher, a less confident passer/carrier and generally led to a severe loss of confidence (only compounded by his surrounding environment being so poor in the years immediately succeeding) but, what it did do is create the potential for one of the best out and out centre forwards in Europe.
Kai Havertz isn’t just a facilitator for other penetrators, he is that himself- a high level transitional threat that no centre-half wants to see running in behind. That’s what City get out of Haaland up front, a guy to play over the press and a devastating outlet in behind- but Havertz is more than that, he’s a credible link man as well. Outside of the area as a centre forward Kai Havertz has the ability to do the jobs that you buy both a Harry Kane *and* an Erling Haaland to do- irrespective of the standard that he does those jobs to (obviously not at the level of either in their respective fields), the fact that you can ask him to do both speaks to his utter completeness as a centre forward at his best and it speaks to why Arsenal signed him.
Contrary to popular belief Kai Havertz is not a bad finisher, he’s had bad finishing years but he’s not a bad finisher. There are reasons behind his finishing issues over the years, the growth spurt, confidence and the Chelsea factor™. Now, this may seem unsubstantiated, so here’s my evidence.

Firstly, Kai’s shot prep is top notch- he creates separation efficiently (through both using his large frame and getting it out of his feet well) and the positive first touches that he has when he’s on it are incredibly effective at giving him the space to shoot. He’s also generally pretty good at knowing when to shoot, you’ll rarely see a shot taken by Kai Havertz that shouldn’t be and it’s just as unlikely that you’ll see a geniune opportunity for him to shoot be passed up on.
He’s also been shown to be adept as a pure striker of the football with his goal against England in the Nations League being an example of this. Kai Havertz is no devastating striker of the football in the Erling Haaland mould, but when he has time he tends to strike the ball fairly cleanly from long range and that’ll likely only improve as he gets more comfortable with his body post-growth spurt (with his volleying in particular taking a sizeable dip in quality after his move from Leverkusen).

Out of everything though, my main belief in Kai Havertz as a good finisher is his mental approach to the game and the juxtaposition of it to Gabriel Jesus presents a wonderful case study for why it’s a good thing for Kai.

Kai’s calm, Jesus is decidedly not so. Gabriel Jesus has a history of letting missed chances get to him, making a mountain out of a molehill when things don’t drop how he wants them to. Don’t get me wrong, I love how emotional Gabriel Jesus is, he takes matters into his own hands like few others- he wouldn’t be the beautiful footballer we see every week (with depressing 4–6 week breaks every 3 months) without that emotion. However, it isn’t particularly conducive to a great finisher- being bothered isn’t how you finish the next chance.

This just isn’t an issue for Kai, while often his lackadaisical demeanour is criticised when things aren’t going well, it’s largely a net positive for him on the pitch- calling him a cool head in general is a step too far but in front of goal? There’s no doubt. When he’s in behind, 1 on 1 with the goalkeeper I expect Kai Havertz to score- his inevitability isn’t something that’s appreciated yet (largely because he isn’t inevitable- yet), but once it is it’ll be impossible to miss and he’ll go from being seen as a poor finisher to being one of the best around.
Out of possession however, the Martin Ødegaard/ Kai Havertz relationship truly blossoms. We’ve already seen a level of compatibility in this regard, the hybrid press instituted in the Man United game earlier in the season saw both put in some of the best out of possession performances of the season (especially taking into account Kai was functioning in an unfamiliar deeper role). The blocking of space and understanding of triggers that both have in their locker was on full display, they are probably the two most intelligent pressing minds in the squad (excluding Rice but like, that’s OOP Jesus we’re talking about) and having those two leading the press is such as useful tool to have. The flexibility that those two would give Mikel Arteta and his coaching staff is something that is tough to value but is certainly appreciated.
It’s important for me to stress that Kai Havertz isn’t and will never be the perfect centre forward, his completeness is something that I’ve highlighted and praised but that completeness isn’t fully combined with raw quality. He does a lot of things to a good, even great standard, but he does a lot less to a truly top tier standard and that does mean that there’s better players around. However, he is of the standard required to lead a side to Champions League glory in the role, Kai Havertz can be Arsenal’s number 9 if we want him to be long term and in regards to squad planning (and the possible incoming of a superstar this coming summer), I believe that it would work out best if he is in fact that.
 
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MauveGunner

Well-Known Member

Country: Belgium

Player:Rice
All in all it has been an okay season for now for Havertz, and it will probably be by the end of the season unless something magical happens and becomes prime Dinho.

Have we overpaid for him? imo, yes.
Is the the big flop people predicted him to be at the start of the season? No.
 

Farzad

Stormy's Lifetime Fan and Subscriber #1 🫶🏽

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
All in all it has been an okay season for now for Havertz, and it will probably be by the end of the season unless something magical happens and becomes prime Dinho.

Have we overpaid for him? imo, yes.
Is the the big flop people predicted him to be at the start of the season? No.
Yeah because his performance is worth every penny of the 65 million and 1 million plus a month we paid for him. Lol. The Mik cultist Kool Ade runs strong with this one. Havertz is a total disaster
 

Farzad

Stormy's Lifetime Fan and Subscriber #1 🫶🏽

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
Tell me you haven't read my whole post without telling me you read it all.

Or you can't read, that's my second guess.
He stinks. Not good enough to be in squad as maybe an Eddie upgrade. How else would you classify a flop?
 

GDeep™

League is very weak
He’s been useful with the injuries we’ve had, his versatility has come handy.

The most telling thing here is that ALL of this forum wants new midfielders and a new CF this summer.

His role in the league chase and CL will tell us if he’s been a flop or not. Till now he’s been average.
 

RunTheTrap

Kai Havertz Offense League
If you want an honest answer on how to assess Kai Havertz, you must ask yourself two questions.

1) If you could go back in time, knowing everything that you know now, would you do the transfer again for the same value?

2) Do you believe Kai will be in our strongest starting XI for the duration of his contract?

Also, I think you have to judge Kai as two different players - one as a midfielder and the other as a forward. As a midfielder, Kai is in the bottom 5th percentile of central midfielders. There's no difference in quality between Kai Havertz and Scott McTominay. The only difference is that the Scotsman is an academy graduate and has no long-term future at United. Conversely, as a forward, Kai is okay. I would put him in the middle range of strikers, but he is still performing below several strikers for a fraction of the price we spent on the German.
 

fute

Active Member

Country: USA
Kai is Kai.

The expectations and prognostications constantly change about Kai.

Yet Kai never does.

He'd be a great poker play.
 

drippin

Obsessed with "Mature Trusted Members"

Country: Finland
He’s been useful with the injuries we’ve had, his versatility has come handy.

The most telling thing here is that ALL of this forum wants new midfielders and a new CF this summer.

His role in the league chase and CL will tell us if he’s been a flop or not. Till now he’s been average.
The biggest reason is that both Partey and Jesus have turned out to be too injury-prone.
 

Riou

In The Winchester, Waiting For This To Blow Over

Country: Northern Ireland
He's a better CF (in terms of.how we use our striker) than every player we are linked with, tbh.

Think we should just make him our new starting CF and get a proper midfielder in this summer, think that would benefit our team more right now.
 

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Daily Transfer Updates

Monday, June 3

Real Sociedad midfielder Mikel Merino is ‘seduced’ by the possibility of joining Arsenal in a €25m deal after a phone call with manager Mikel Arteta [Mundo Deportivo]

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