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Cobra Kai Havertz: No Mercy

Will Kai prove to be a Xhaka upgrade?

  • Yes

  • No


Results are only viewable after voting.

Farzad Stoned

Self-appointed Deprogrammer for the Cult of Mik 🟥

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
He’s had his misses in the market for sure. I’m just not sure Havertz can be classed as one of them yet, it’s too soon to tell.

I’ve said before that I like him as a CF, not soo much as a CM.
He is a below average CF we watched him now 4 years in this league. But it is his best position because as a midfielder he is tragicomedy
 

ArsenesCoatMaker

Established Member
Can't remember who it was that said he blows hot and cold like Giroud but the more I've thought about it the more he reminds me of him, in everything but finishing. Giroud had dodgy finishing at times but at it was good for the most part. Havertz isn't finishing anything that isn't bang in front of the goal from about 7 yards out.

Giroud is probably a much better striker of the ball. Havertz is much quicker, much better pressing, better running into space behind defenders, better at tracking back, better dribbler.

Also Giroud got 3 shots a game under Wenger. Give Havertz the same service and see what happens.
 

boonthegoon

Arteta In by November

Country: USA

Player:Ødegaard
It is good we have Havertz as an option for playing striker. Imagine if we had signed any other 8 who cannot play as CF (like most of the 8s mentioned here), we would have been stuck with only Eddie as striker for major parts of the season.

Also most of the time, the long ball to him is our way out of an aggressive and he mostly wins those headers and lays it off to Ødegaard or Saka or Martinelli (both when he plays as a 9 or 8). The other 8s mentioned here are definitely not bringing that with them.

Yes, Arteta might not have planned it that way, but still his versatility is a huge positive.
 

Farzad Stoned

Self-appointed Deprogrammer for the Cult of Mik 🟥

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
Giroud is probably a much better striker of the ball. Havertz is much quicker, much better pressing, better running into space behind defenders, better at tracking back, better dribbler.

Also Giroud got 3 shots a game under Wenger. Give Havertz the same service and see what happens.
The is as delusional a comparison i have seen. Havertz played on great Chelsea sides that created tons of chances for 2 of his 3 years and he couldn’t finish. Giroud scored a 100 goals here Havertz could play here 20 years and won’t get that. Giroud was phenomenal in build up for a big guy he would shield the ball, show for passes and was very good at bringing others into the game. Havertz is not nearly the player or striker. And i rate Giroud to be very good but not a world class striker. But even beyond goals Giroud was better as a footballer. He is a bad striker Kai but unfortunately that is 1.2 million and 65 million a month albatross’s best position.
 

ArsenesCoatMaker

Established Member
The is as delusional a comparison i have seen. Havertz played on great Chelsea sides that created tons of chances for 2 of his 3 years and he couldn’t finish. Giroud scored a 100 goals here Havertz could play here 20 years and won’t get that. Giroud was phenomenal in build up for a big guy he would shield the ball, show for passes and was very good at bringing others into the game. Havertz is not nearly the player or striker. And i rate Giroud to be very good but not a world class striker. But even beyond goals Giroud was better as a footballer. He is a bad striker Kai but unfortunately that is 1.2 million and 65 million a month albatross’s best position.

Your first point is just wrong, Havertz was getting 1.2 shots per game in his first season at Chelsea. He was getting 2.6 in the season he got 17 goals in 33 games at Leverkuson. He got 3 goals and 3 assists in 5 games in Europa when he was averaging 3.3 shots per game. Like any forward he performs better when he gets better service

Giroud averaged less than 1 in 2 goals as a striker being serviced by Özil, Cazorla, Alexis Sanchez, Wilshere and Rosicky. He was getting 3 shots per game, something Havertz has never had the luxury of getting

Havetz is currently 3 goals in 6 games as a striker for Arsenal with less shots per game. That is a better goals per game ratio. So far Havertz is better on average as a goals per game as a striker. The sample size is admittedly small. But again you've shown yourself wrong on this point.

I absolutely hated how slow Giroud was and I hated how he wasted so many chances. If you can't remember I don't think you can have followed us then. Maybe you only watched highlights back then or perhaps you weren't a fan yet?

Havertz potential ceiling is potentially far higher than Giroud's. For one thing he has elite pace. Last generations top strikers were only breaking out as top strikers aged about 25-26 - see Ibrahimovic, Suarez, Costa, RVP, Etoo. And to a lesser extent Giroud who's PL best return was 16 goals in a season. He was 26 when he joined Arsenal.

Havertz is only 24. He's not close to hitting his peak yet. He only stopped growing in the last year or so, as he grew 2-3 inches at Chelsea while adjusting to a new league. He has elite pace, movement off the ball and he showed great goal scoring ability in Germany.
 

dka1

100% Dark Chocolate
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
Not really. We signed him and glad he is contributing. But hand on heart if we could go back in the summer how many people will say they would have made the same move for him?

Yeah that's kinda how I feel. I think if we could re-do how many would really go for Havertz again, I probably wouldn't.

Don't get it wrong though, I think he's done really really well since moving further forward on the pitch and actually he's done better than I thought he would in that position.
 

Farzad Stoned

Self-appointed Deprogrammer for the Cult of Mik 🟥

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
Your first point is just wrong, Havertz was getting 1.2 shots per game in his first season at Chelsea. He was getting 2.6 in the season he got 17 goals in 33 games at Leverkuson. He got 3 goals and 3 assists in 5 games in Europa when he was averaging 3.3 shots per game. Like any forward he performs better when he gets better service

Giroud averaged less than 1 in 2 goals as a striker being serviced by Özil, Cazorla, Alexis Sanchez, Wilshere and Rosicky. He was getting 3 shots per game, something Havertz has never had the luxury of getting

Havetz is currently 3 goals in 6 games as a striker for Arsenal with less shots per game. That is a better goals per game ratio. So far Havertz is better on average as a goals per game as a striker. The sample size is admittedly small. But again you've shown yourself wrong on this point.

I absolutely hated how slow Giroud was and I hated how he wasted so many chances. If you can't remember I don't think you can have followed us then. Maybe you only watched highlights back then or perhaps you weren't a fan yet?

Havertz potential ceiling is potentially far higher than Giroud's. For one thing he has elite pace. Last generations top strikers were only breaking out as top strikers aged about 25-26 - see Ibrahimovic, Suarez, Costa, RVP, Etoo. And to a lesser extent Giroud who's PL best return was 16 goals in a season. He was 26 when he joined Arsenal.

Havertz is only 24. He's not close to hitting his peak yet. He only stopped growing in the last year or so, as he grew 2-3 inches at Chelsea while adjusting to a new league. He has elite pace, movement off the ball and he showed great goal scoring ability in Germany.
I watched Giroud, i rated him. He was wasteful but he was productive. Havertz has Ode, Jorgi, Martinelli and Saka; he has had plenty of service. Don’t you guys w.nk it to how we scored a record goal haul last year?

Lots of fans right now still rate Giroud and watched him at Arsenal. I haven’t seen Havertz attack a single ball in the box with the commitment of Giroud on every ball. Kai wishes he could score near post like Ollie. So all Kai’s matches he didn’t score in didn’t count because while utilized in attack he wasn’t used as striker? Is that really the argument and defense you are making?
 

elemoo

Active Member
Look he was better much better than the rest of his matches have generally been. His first 15 or so matches he was atrocious. I don’t think he actually had a bad game. I just think everyone else played at a really high level and Kai cost us as many goals as he created.

He keeps missing one on ones with the keeper. He also bobbled another lay off well inside the box again from a perfect Martinelli pass he couldn’t control it took an extra touch and then his attempt was blocked. That doesn’t go as big chance missed in stats but it should

He played well, just still not good enough compared to rest of the attack. He still is missing big chance after big chance. Neither his goal or his assist were much in terms of what he did they were tap ins effectively.

He didn’t have a bad game by Kai standards; but he is still below the level of rest of the attack.

If we had Xavi Simmons or Kudus i am sure they would score goals in matches that win us points like Brentford and would break open other matches Kai failed to perform in

He has been a big net negative especially considering the FFP hit he frees Chelsea of and imposes on us.

Sure he gives us flexibility and some variety; he is taller than our other attackers and better in the air. It doesn’t make up for his terrible passing and fin
Look he was better much better than the rest of his matches have generally been. His first 15 or so matches he was atrocious. I don’t think he actually had a bad game. I just think everyone else played at a really high level and Kai cost us as many goals as he created.

He keeps missing one on ones with the keeper. He also bobbled another lay off well inside the box again from a perfect Martinelli pass he couldn’t control it took an extra touch and then his attempt was blocked. That doesn’t go as big chance missed in stats but it should

He played well, just still not good enough compared to rest of the attack. He still is missing big chance after big chance. Neither his goal or his assist were much in terms of what he did they were tap ins effectively.

He didn’t have a bad game by Kai standards; but he is still below the level of rest of the attack.

If we had Xavi Simmons or Kudus i am sure they would score goals in matches that win us points like Brentford and would break open other matches Kai failed to perform in

He has been a big net negative especially considering the FFP hit he frees Chelsea of and imposes on us.

Sure he gives us flexibility and some variety; he is taller than our other attackers and better in the air. It doesn’t make up for his terrible passing and finishing.

Appreciate the response, and the fact that you didn’t resort to being condescending or rude is noted :)

It sounds like there is nothing Kai can do that will change your opinion so it will always be a ‘he’s terrible’ post from you every week. Perhaps I am a little naive in thinking people should see the flaws in our own players but at the same time, support when they play well and hope this helps the team and us fans get closer to winning things.

Don’t think it’s a net negative imo (one can only guess at this point until the summer when we are in the market again - but for now his price has had zero negative impact on the club) but also that’s bc I would have preferred him to any of the other summer targets like Mudryk or Caicedo. You mentioned players we weren’t even in for tho and non of the ones you mentioned could be as flexible as a ST. Perhaps just your wish list on your part and not actually what Arteta is looking for.

For what Kai lacks, the things he does well is underrated imo. All players miss open chances though… it’s not like he has a poor conversion rate.

Assume you’d put his performance at a maximum 5/10 and the lowest of the team during our last outing then?

Ps I’m still in shock that your response was actually so reasonable seeing how much you blast ppl who disagree with you with almost a sense of anger, but I thought you were a troll… I take it back and thank you again for not taking the easy option of just sh*tting on a fellow fan!
 

Farzad Stoned

Self-appointed Deprogrammer for the Cult of Mik 🟥

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
Appreciate the response, and the fact that you didn’t resort to being condescending or rude is noted :)

It sounds like there is nothing Kai can do that will change your opinion so it will always be a ‘he’s terrible’ post from you every week. Perhaps I am a little naive in thinking people should see the flaws in our own players but at the same time, support when they play well and hope this helps the team and us fans get closer to winning things.

Don’t think it’s a net negative imo (one can only guess at this point until the summer when we are in the market again - but for now his price has had zero negative impact on the club) but also that’s bc I would have preferred him to any of the other summer targets like Mudryk or Caicedo. You mentioned players we weren’t even in for tho and non of the ones you mentioned could be as flexible as a ST. Perhaps just your wish list on your part and not actually what Arteta is looking for.

For what Kai lacks, the things he does well is underrated imo. All players miss open chances though… it’s not like he has a poor conversion rate.

Assume you’d put his performance at a maximum 5/10 and the lowest of the team during our last outing then?

Ps I’m still in shock that your response was actually so reasonable seeing how much you blast ppl who disagree with you with almost a sense of anger, but I thought you were a troll… I take it back and thank you again for not taking the easy option of just sh*tting on a fellow fan!
I am the sweetest kindest gooner in here. I have had few dust ups and bans on occasion but i chalk that up to @El Duderino being a good poster and G, but the Howard Webb or John Oliver of online moderation, quick with the card. Not a single person on here do i insult who didn’t chose to enter Farzad’s fight club. In fact; if interested read my dedicated thread called Farzad’s Fight Club on AM.

As for Kai he is playing better. First 10 or 12 matches were nightmarish. I would give him a 6/10 last match. He was hurt by no one else delivering less than 6/10 or 7/10 performances. Also because he blew two big chances. He did initiate his move on the tap in from Martinelli so you got to credit him there.

He is an ok back up striker for an elite team; that is it. As a midfielder he is a disaster as his passing is worse than his dodgy finishing
 

ArsenesCoatMaker

Established Member
I watched Giroud, i rated him. He was wasteful but he was productive. Havertz has Ode, Jorgi, Martinelli and Saka; he has had plenty of service. Don’t you guys w.nk it to how we scored a record goal haul last year?

Lots of fans right now still rate Giroud and watched him at Arsenal. I haven’t seen Havertz attack a single ball in the box with the commitment of Giroud on every ball. Kai wishes he could score near post like Ollie. So all Kai’s matches he didn’t score in didn’t count because while utilized in attack he wasn’t used as striker? Is that really the argument and defense you are making?

Giroud had 3.1 shots per game in his first 2 seasons. Havertz has had 1.4 shots per game this season at Arsenal, so less than twice what Giroud had. And he's still scoring a better rate as a CF than Giroud has done

I'm comparing Havertz as a CF versus Giroud as a CF. You want to compare Havertz as a CM versus Giroud as a CF because you lose your argument

You really aren't an honest person to debate with
 

Farzad Stoned

Self-appointed Deprogrammer for the Cult of Mik 🟥

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
Giroud had 3.1 shots per game in his first 2 seasons. Havertz has had 1.4 shots per game this season at Arsenal, so less than twice what Giroud had. And he's still scoring a better rate as a CF than Giroud has done

I'm comparing Havertz as a CF versus Giroud as a CF. You want to compare Havertz as a CM versus Giroud as a CF because you lose your argument

You really aren't an honest person to debate with
I am as honest as the day is long. You are pulling a six game sample in comparison to 100 goal club member at Arsenal? Who cares Giroud had more shots, you know why he was more aggressive. You don’t get penalized for taking more shots it’s called taking responsibility as a striker

I don’t rate your small sample cherry picked stats. Tell me as an honest football fan, have you once seen Havertz attack a cross like Giroud attacked every lost cause? Maybe that is why he had more shots, he would knock the CBs d.ck in the dirt to get those extra shots
 

Sanchez11

Nobody Is Coming!

Country: England
It took the tanker what 5-6 years to get his tally and Kai the flop could break that in his first season ffs.
 

ArsenesCoatMaker

Established Member
I am as honest as the day is long. You are pulling a six game sample in comparison to 100 goal club member at Arsenal? Who cares Giroud had more shots, you know why he was more aggressive. You don’t get penalized for taking more shots it’s called taking responsibility as a striker

I don’t rate your small sample cherry picked stats. Tell me as an honest football fan, have you once seen Havertz attack a cross like Giroud attacked every lost cause? Maybe that is why he had more shots, he would knock the CBs d.ck in the dirt to get those extra shots

You're as honest and worth as much as my last dump in toilet. Giroud got dumploads of chances because he was playing in a creative master force Wenger team and he still managed to destroy the 2016 League Title all by himself by not scoring for 6 months when Özil gave him 20 chances a game.

Giroud is absolute toilet, stop trying to build him up as anything more than a toilet. Giroud is a world cup winner with no goals. Havertz is much better. You need to learn ball because worshiping Giroud should be punished by a death sentence
 

PrinzPoldi

Active Member

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
I am as honest as the day is long. You are pulling a six game sample in comparison to 100 goal club member at Arsenal? Who cares Giroud had more shots, you know why he was more aggressive. You don’t get penalized for taking more shots it’s called taking responsibility as a striker

I don’t rate your small sample cherry picked stats. Tell me as an honest football fan, have you once seen Havertz attack a cross like Giroud attacked every lost cause? Maybe that is why he had more shots, he would knock the CBs d.ck in the dirt to get those extra shots
Giroud played 180 league games in 6 seasons for us, averaging 30 league games as our out and out striker and scored 73 league goals.

He averaged 12 league goals a season for us.

Kai, just play a bit more than half season for us and being a part time striker, scored 6 league goals.

That was your argument and comparison, calling Giroud great.
This is your level.
 

Farzad Stoned

Self-appointed Deprogrammer for the Cult of Mik 🟥

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
Giroud played 180 league games in 6 seasons for us, averaging 30 league games as our out and out striker and scored 73 league goals.

He averaged 12 league goals a season for us.

Kai, just play a bit more than half season for us and being a part time striker, scored 6 league goals.

That was your argument and comparison, calling Giroud great.
This is your level.
I didn’t say he was great in fact said he wasn’t world class or great just a lot better than Kai.
 

Farzad Stoned

Self-appointed Deprogrammer for the Cult of Mik 🟥

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
You're as honest and worth as much as my last dump in toilet. Giroud got dumploads of chances because he was playing in a creative master force Wenger team and he still managed to destroy the 2016 League Title all by himself by not scoring for 6 months when Özil gave him 20 chances a game.

Giroud is absolute toilet, stop trying to build him up as anything more than a toilet. Giroud is a world cup winner with no goals. Havertz is much better. You need to learn ball because worshiping Giroud should be punished by a death sentence
Giroud isn’t world class never said he was. But much better than Kai. Kai hasn’t attacked a single cross like Giroud in his life, nor is he as good holding up the play
 

ArsenesCoatMaker

Established Member
Giroud isn’t world class never said he was. But much better than Kai. Kai hasn’t attacked a single cross like Giroud in his life, nor is he as good holding up the play

Giroud wasn't good at anything though, stop making things up. He was part of the reason for Wenger's downfall.

Kai is going to have a better career than Gir-fool - BOOKMARK IT!!!
 

Farzad Stoned

Self-appointed Deprogrammer for the Cult of Mik 🟥

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
Giroud wasn't good at anything though, stop making things up. He was part of the reason for Wenger's downfall.

Kai is going to have a better career than Gir-fool - BOOKMARK IT!!!
He wasn’t good at anything except he won trophies and scored a 100 goals at Arsenal. Not my favorite striker by any stretch as he was slow and not clinical. But Havertz? He has been a failed striker in this league for 4 years now, Chelsea fans know Giroud was way better to. Mustafi and Xhaka and no money were Wenger’s downfall. He bought Giroud for 10 million not that long ago how was he Wenger’s downfall?
 

HattoriHanzo

Active Member

Country: Croatia
Giroud wasn't good at anything though, stop making things up. He was part of the reason for Wenger's downfall.

Kai is going to have a better career than Gir-fool - BOOKMARK IT!!!
I’d say that Giroud has impressively good career.
1 Ligue 1 title (Montpellier), 1 Serie A title (AC Milan), 4 FA cups (3 with Arsenal, 1 with Chelsea), 1 CL with Chelsea, 1 Europa league with Chelsea, 1 World Cup with France
Best goal scorer for French NT.

It will be very difficult for Havertz to surpass Giroud.
 

Farzad Stoned

Self-appointed Deprogrammer for the Cult of Mik 🟥

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
I’d say that Giroud has impressively good career.
1 Ligue 1 title (Montpellier), 1 Serie A title (AC Milan), 4 FA cups (3 with Arsenal, 1 with Chelsea), 1 CL with Chelsea, 1 Europa league with Chelsea, 1 World Cup with France
Best goal scorer for French NT.

It will be very difficult for Havertz to surpass Giroud.
In 4 premier league seasons Havertz hasn’t once hit double digit goals in league. Then they trash Giroud for an admittedly low strike rate of 12 league goals a season. Havertz is averaging like 6 league goals a season in this league per season in his career. Meaning Giroud is cr.p for averaging double goals than Kai in his 6 seasons at Arsenal. The same poster then claims a player who scored 100 goals and was bought for 10 million was Wenger’s downfall. If a player averaging 200 percent more goals in league per season is Wenger’s downfall than Kai at 65 million with even less goals should be Arteta’s Titanic.
 

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