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Cobra Kai Havertz: No Mercy

Will Kai prove to be a Xhaka upgrade?

  • Yes

  • No


Results are only viewable after voting.

Rain Dance

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
we were talking 180 league games 73 goals, pal.
in 6 seasons, wasn't 12 goals averaged per season?

read before you reply.
first of all, the guy wasn't playing 6 seasons for us
second, I literally wrote stop using "only league goals" as a matrix, if you count goals by season, count it all competition

read before you reply, I gave you the Math
 

Farzad Stoned

Self-appointed Deprogrammer for the Cult of Mik 🟥

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
...........this is wrong. Giroud average is higher than 12 goals a season. Ffs guys, you can look up transfermarkt.

In fact, Giroud's lowest goal tally in premiership is 11 Premiership goals ( cause the idiots here likes to count only Premiership goals) back in 2012/2013. So yeah the math ain't math-ing already by this standard already.
12/13 he scored 19 goals all comp
13/14 he scored 22 goals all comp
15/16 he scored 19 goals all comp
16/17 he scored 25 goals all comp
17/18 he scored 14 goals all comp
18/19 he scored 7 for us and 5 for Chelsea all comp

Giroud averaged around 18.5 to 19 goals/ season. Far from 12 goals/season BS
Have you ever seen Kai attack a single ball like Giroud did every ball? I liked Giroud but wasn’t crazy about him as our starting striker. But he threw his big body around and actually was good in the build up and without the ball. He was like a 3rd CB on corners and set pieces if defensive contributions are so important
 

db10_therza

🎵 Edu getting rickrolled 🎵
Trusted ⭐

Country: Bangladesh

Player:White
Have you ever seen Kai attack a single ball like Giroud did every ball? I liked Giroud but wasn’t crazy about him as our starting striker. But he threw his big body around and actually was good in the build up and without the ball. He was like a 3rd CB on corners and set pieces if defensive contributions are so important

Not even his most ardent supporters would paint Havertz as a traditional centre forward so I’m not sure I understand the point here? He doesn’t do a lot of things a centre forward does. Like bury chances… he has great movement that may or may not be really elevating the attack as a whole right now - I need a bigger sample size to decide. And he wins duels… which I laughed at along with everyone else but the last few games has me thinking there might be sth to this duel malark.

Anyway, like it wasn’t bad enough I had to read pages about Kai now we’re throwing Giroud in here as well?

Oh great, my two most favourite Arsenal players of all time ever ❤️
 

Rain Dance

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
Have you ever seen Kai attack a single ball like Giroud did every ball? I liked Giroud but wasn’t crazy about him as our starting striker. But he threw his big body around and actually was good in the build up and without the ball. He was like a 3rd CB on corners and set pieces if defensive contributions are so important
Honestly I don't give a **** about Kai atm, as long as he isn't forced to be a starting line up, I am okay with that.
Jorginho earned his starting position and Jorgi+Rice+Ode should be playing as our main MF.
Kai fighting with Gabby Jesus, Eddie & Trossard for false 9 position is an acceptable position.
 

Farzad Stoned

Self-appointed Deprogrammer for the Cult of Mik 🟥

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
Not even his most ardent supporters would paint Havertz as a traditional centre forward so I’m not sure I understand the point here? He doesn’t do a lot of things a centre forward does. Like bury chances… he has great movement that may or may not be really elevating the attack as a whole right now - I need a bigger sample size to decide. And he wins duels… which I laughed at along with everyone else but the last few games has me thinking there might be sth to this duel malark.

Anyway, like it wasn’t bad enough I had to read pages about Kai now we’re throwing Giroud in here as well?

Oh great, my two most favourite Arsenal players of all time ever ❤️
So can we compare Kai’s passing numbers to other attackers? He has half the strike rate of Giroud in Pl matches. And worse passing numbers. I was never satisfied with Giroud as our starting 9; but would love him as a squaddie. Havertz frankly is not good enough for the squad
 

PrinzPoldi

Active Member

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
first of all, the guy wasn't playing 6 seasons for us
second, I literally wrote stop using "only league goals" as a matrix, if you count goals by season, count it all competition

read before you reply, I gave you the Math
Oh yeah, 5 1/2??

The numbers still the same.
180 league games, 73 league goals.

You used a different matrix to respond to my matrix, and you read?? Why not add the friendlies and all other matches? Probably will make his numbers more "impressive".

I know the math. League games and league goals.
 

Rain Dance

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
Oh yeah, 5 1/2??

The numbers still the same.
180 league games, 73 league goals.

You used a different matrix to respond to my matrix, and you read?? Why not add the friendlies and all other matches? Probably will make his numbers more "impressive".

I know the math. League games and league goals.
if the numbers still the same, why not show us the MATH DIFFERENCE of 73 divide by 6 and 73 divide by 5.5 ?
let's do elementary school Math class here
is the average still 12 ? or has it changed to 13 something?

Also, why does everyone else, Cristiano Ronaldo & Messi included are counted by all competition goals but in Arsenal, our players are counted only league goals ? Heck, ****ing Pele has friendlies and other matches included in his goal tally, that's why he is on 1,276 goals.

105 goals all competitions divided by 5.5 seasons = 19.09 goals per season

Also using your matrix, you said an average of 12 premier league goals per season is not good, do you know who has an average of 12 premier league goals per season?
it's Robin van Persie (96 premier league goals / 8 seasons)

And you know who has 12 goals all competition on average playing for Arsenal ? Lukas Podolski.
I am not gonna be an ass and use only his league goals.
 

Farzad Stoned

Self-appointed Deprogrammer for the Cult of Mik 🟥

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
if the numbers still the same, why not show us the MATH DIFFERENCE of 73 divide by 6 and 73 divide by 5.5 ?
let's do elementary school Math class here
is the average still 12 ? or has it changed to 13 something?

Also, why does everyone else, Cristiano Ronaldo & Messi included are counted by all competition goals but in Arsenal, our players are counted only league goals ? Heck, ****ing Pele has friendlies and other matches included in his goal tally, that's why he is on 1,276 goals.

105 goals all competitions divided by 5.5 seasons = 19.09 goals per season

Also using your matrix, you said an average of 12 premier league goals per season is not good, do you know who has an average of 12 premier league goals per season?
it's Robin van Persie (96 premier league goals / 8 seasons)

And you know who has 12 goals all competition on average playing for Arsenal ? Lukas Podolski.
I am not gonna be an ass and use only his league goals.
Bro the fan girl you are trying in vain to educate doesn’t think Kai can be compared to strikers in goals or to other attackers of any kind in assists. And he cheers a guy who is 6’4 for heading it and pressing. As if our other attackers are not expected to both work off the ball and contribute to the attack in a tangible way.

People attacked me; i said Kai’s inability to deliver a through ball was killing Martinelli whose whole game relies on that ball. As soon as Jorgie comes into midfield Martinelli mayhem instantly unleashed.
 

rotateta

Member

Country: England
Bro the fan girl you are trying in vain to educate doesn’t think Kai can be compared to strikers in goals or to other attackers of any kind in assists. And he cheers a guy who is 6’4 for heading it and pressing. As if our other attackers are not expected to both work off the ball and contribute to the attack in a tangible way.

People attacked me; i said Kai’s inability to deliver a through ball was killing Martinelli whose whole game relies on that ball. As soon as Jorgie comes into midfield Martinelli mayhem instantly unleashed.

I think the argument as to whether Kai is a midfielder or forward is pointless, much like the argument some are making in our summer transfer plans about signing a new left back because we don't have an out and out left back. With regard to that argument neither do City this season but like ourselves it is far from a weak area on the pitch for them.

Havertz does offer versatility as he will switch between roles with others, you do however make a good point that our left side has not gelled as would be hoped when he has played as an 8. I would go further to say Zinchenko (when fit) hasn't been a shadow of the player he was last year either.

Xhaka was absolutely crucial to Zinchenko not being exposed, he also linked well with Martinelli. Havertz is now linking well with Trossard but if to play further back than he currently is then there is work to do on the training field.

Martinelli appears very reliant on the correct personnel being around him, just as Zinchenko and Xhaka around him got the best from him, when KT played with him it simply did not work for him.

Havertz has use at this club, the other options we could have signed at the time were Mount and Maddison and I would take him over both of them. I think it will be interesting as to where he plays and who is around him when Jesus, Zinchenko, Vieira and Partey all imminently return from injury.
 

bakaboo

Active Member
Giroud was 1 of the best Striker of his type (Target man). During Wenger era, he was hindered by his pace. He was excellent playing back to the goal, and surprising very good interchange passing. I believed he won the WC as the main striker of France.

I think it is premature to say Kai is better than Giroud in the #9. Giroud wins handsdown without a fight. I would say Kai is a useful player in #9. He does not attack the ball as hard as I expect him to be during cross, he does not shoot the ball well, he often under hit the ball during passing. But he is everywhere on the pitch, filling up the gap, and hassle the opponent.
 

dino bravo

Established Member

Country: England
One thing is for absolute certain. Mikel has forgotten more about football than the people arguing here will ever know, and he signed and trusts Kai, who is still bedding in to a new club, new team mates, new system and I think he is doing alright.
 

Jasard

Forum Issue Troubleshooter
Moderator

Country: England
Haaland waking up from his slumber for the business end with 5 goals and we're debating if Havertz can even play as a striker?

Idris Elba Table Flip GIF
 

rotateta

Member

Country: England
Giroud was 1 of the best Striker of his type (Target man). During Wenger era, he was hindered by his pace. He was excellent playing back to the goal, and surprising very good interchange passing. I believed he won the WC as the main striker of France.

I think it is premature to say Kai is better than Giroud in the #9. Giroud wins handsdown without a fight. I would say Kai is a useful player in #9. He does not attack the ball as hard as I expect him to be during cross, he does not shoot the ball well, he often under hit the ball during passing. But he is everywhere on the pitch, filling up the gap, and hassle the opponent.
The Giroud-Havertz comparisons however fall down when you consider tactics used.

If you are looking for an out and out number 9 then Giroud is better.

However, an out and out number 9 would not work as well in our current tactical set-up. Listening to Talksport this morning I listened to McCoist and Brazil quoting how many goals we have scored in the league in February but both arguing we still need an out and out goal scorer!

To me this is akin to having a sweeper keeper, having the best defence in the league and arguing we need someone who is a better shot stopper. It could however cause more uncertainty at the back and see more goals scored against us, getting back to Havertz his movement will create more opportunities for others than if we had Giroud there. The last sentence of what Bakaboo wrote is key, our XG with Havertz in this team is greater than if we had prime Giroud there instead.
 

Farzad Stoned

Self-appointed Deprogrammer for the Cult of Mik 🟥

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
I think the argument as to whether Kai is a midfielder or forward is pointless, much like the argument some are making in our summer transfer plans about signing a new left back because we don't have an out and out left back. With regard to that argument neither do City this season but like ourselves it is far from a weak area on the pitch for them.

Havertz does offer versatility as he will switch between roles with others, you do however make a good point that our left side has not gelled as would be hoped when he has played as an 8. I would go further to say Zinchenko (when fit) hasn't been a shadow of the player he was last year either.

Xhaka was absolutely crucial to Zinchenko not being exposed, he also linked well with Martinelli. Havertz is now linking well with Trossard but if to play further back than he currently is then there is work to do on the training field.

Martinelli appears very reliant on the correct personnel being around him, just as Zinchenko and Xhaka around him got the best from him, when KT played with him it simply did not work for him.

Havertz has use at this club, the other options we could have signed at the time were Mount and Maddison and I would take him over both of them. I think it will be interesting as to where he plays and who is around him when Jesus, Zinchenko, Vieira and Partey all imminently return from injury.
Havertz hurts everyone else who relies on his service and Martinelli most of all. I don’t know why Havertz, Mount, and Maddison are our only options. Out of these three i would much rather have Maddison. Does Mik only scout Chelsea or Pl players that are massively underperforming and over priced? For 65 million why don’t you buy someone who is not in a 3 year slump and can pass? No joke Mik broke our wage structure and put the club into a 52 million pound loss to get this guy while helping Chelsea’s FFP situation.

His minor contributions do not outweigh the damage our attack suffers from him especially Martinelli. Why is he so useful? In what way a few duels some running off the ball? People keep trying to create a silver lining with this transfer that simply doesn’t exist. Nothing he does outweighs his poor striking and finishing or the grave financial cost.
 

jaystewart

Active Member
So can we compare Kai’s passing numbers to other attackers? He has half the strike rate of Giroud in Pl matches. And worse passing numbers. I was never satisfied with Giroud as our starting 9; but would love him as a squaddie. Havertz frankly is not good enough for the squad
A fraction of Havertz games in the PL have been played as a striker
 

Farzad Stoned

Self-appointed Deprogrammer for the Cult of Mik 🟥

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
A fraction of Havertz games in the PL have been played as a striker
who cares he is an attacker and his goal and assists and passing numbers are total garbage for any attacker. So don’t judge his lack of goals because he is a midfielder and don’t look at his cr.p passing because he is really striker. It sounds like people classify him however they can to absolve him.
 

DJ_Markstar

Based and Artetapilled

Player:Martinelli
who cares he is an attacker and his goal and assists and passing numbers are total garbage for any attacker. So don’t judge his lack of goals because he is a midfielder and don’t look at his cr.p passing because he is really striker. It sounds like people classify him however they can to absolve him.

Arteta must be doing amazingly well to lead a team of 10 men and Havertz to such huge wins then, right?
 

Farzad Stoned

Self-appointed Deprogrammer for the Cult of Mik 🟥

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
Arteta must be doing amazingly well to lead a team of 10 men and Havertz to such huge wins then, right?
Yes team is doing great over coming Havertz and Mik. Without those two and competent replacements we probably would be the best team in Europe as literally almost every big club on continent is in shambles
 

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