The Mini
Well-Known Member
cyganaghhhh, I agree with your and GG's comments but he has improved, maybe not to that standards we set but he can actually hold now
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Cygan
- Thread starter Gunner4life09
- Start date
- Replies 36
- Views 1,602
If Cygan had pace, he would be one of the best CB's in the league. His reading of the game is perfect. His lack of pace however is a very big problem and he could have been punished against Villa and similarly has one of those moments in each game, same as with Boro when Maccarone just ran past him. Seeing RB isn't as crucial as CB Toure should regain his place specially in big games. We can afford to play Lauren at RB.
n_henry
Well-Known Member
Yeah, he's improved. Still wouldn't mind if we let him go though, if we can get someone better in. But he's certainly a much better player now. 
juo_henry
Member
he was super good against Villa, saw him how he made so many timely interceptions with the ball....no wondeer he was the best player of France once....
reggiepaul
Well-Known Member
I can never understand the whole Cygan thing because it is directly opposite to my experiences of watching him play. I noticed a lot of people highlight he makes mistakes - which player doesn't? I see Henry lose the ball and make positional errors every game. This is where I feel he is scapegoated. Even last year.
Cygan was always a great player. I watched and listened to fans from his first games to the end.
The general views went like this :
early 0203 - "Very Good"
mid 0203 - "bad" (played few games)
late 0203 - "Very Good" (again - but scapegoated thanks to wonderful highlights and part time supporters) ;D ;D :wink:
0304 - "he has improved, he is great, i want to have his children" and so on and so on
I'd hate to be the one to say if you don't go to games you can't comment but in truth that is how I feel on a player like Cygan who gave us so many great performances in a season where he was not liable for our loss (he hardly played in the decisive games of 0203) - so what's all the fuss about?
Just like last year and this season he was always a great defender. His performances last season in many games highlight that. It makes me wonder at this point that you can't shift someones opinion on such matters. That isn't because I am wrong but many people view football more like the news these days and they like to appear critical (which lets be honest support and criticism are not one and the same) to self gratify their view of football. It's not an amazing way of looking at the game when you actualy have to state you follow a team but you don't follow certain players. That goes against the whole point of supporting a team - because you're only in it based upon the rules you create for the players you want e.g. the many threads on the players you would LIKE to see at Arsenal.
We're amazingly successful. Try looking at what ACTUALLY stalled us last season in the league. It was hardly Cygan. A lot of the time we couldn't find the goal.
Cygan was always a great player. I watched and listened to fans from his first games to the end.
The general views went like this :
early 0203 - "Very Good"
mid 0203 - "bad" (played few games)
late 0203 - "Very Good" (again - but scapegoated thanks to wonderful highlights and part time supporters) ;D ;D :wink:
0304 - "he has improved, he is great, i want to have his children" and so on and so on
I'd hate to be the one to say if you don't go to games you can't comment but in truth that is how I feel on a player like Cygan who gave us so many great performances in a season where he was not liable for our loss (he hardly played in the decisive games of 0203) - so what's all the fuss about?
Just like last year and this season he was always a great defender. His performances last season in many games highlight that. It makes me wonder at this point that you can't shift someones opinion on such matters. That isn't because I am wrong but many people view football more like the news these days and they like to appear critical (which lets be honest support and criticism are not one and the same) to self gratify their view of football. It's not an amazing way of looking at the game when you actualy have to state you follow a team but you don't follow certain players. That goes against the whole point of supporting a team - because you're only in it based upon the rules you create for the players you want e.g. the many threads on the players you would LIKE to see at Arsenal.
We're amazingly successful. Try looking at what ACTUALLY stalled us last season in the league. It was hardly Cygan. A lot of the time we couldn't find the goal.
I think we need to replace him to be honest, cos keown isnt going to be around for much longer. Hes the missing link in our chain... we have toure cole and campbell.. all excellent, he just looks so out of place. If I were wenger id be on the look out for a more solid Centre back.
reggiepaul
Well-Known Member
I used to wonder the same as well. Whenever Cygan got the ball and with all the information that people had adopted about him I was expecting him to really mess up. There was this ideal that some people had created that everything he touched fell to pieces. It was like anything Cygan came near was meant to explode and disappear into a slump of mediocrity.
Then I decided to watch him for myself. I wanted that subjective view, primarily because a lot of information surrounding cygan being bad was far too negative to be true. There is negativity and then there is just plain hatred.
My first views of Cygan were of awe to be honest. I felt a new player, unknown and unwanted was difficult to come by and I was sceptical but match after match he fitted the bill well. Then the first few modes of criticism came about and I decided to try and find what people were saying. I went to the game, watched and nothing - yet the criticism was still there. Now if you look at Arsenal we win most games but for some reason this disgusting hatred and despise was attached to Cygan - even if he had a good game he was never given the credit he was due. Even the press were on his back when in fact he saved us in some games and we won games. We won games, but people didn't like him.
If Cygan was as regular as Gilberto it wouldn't be as bad but he never had that luxury as Keown took his place. Keown and Taylor gave him a hard time I remember. Blatantly highlighting and pushing him around defence in the face of fans who took their word for it when in fact stability was far too much to ask for.
Yes, even i **** myself when he got the ball, not because I felt he was crap but because he was actually good but a mistake would be all over most arsenal fans mouths.
Then I decided to watch him for myself. I wanted that subjective view, primarily because a lot of information surrounding cygan being bad was far too negative to be true. There is negativity and then there is just plain hatred.
My first views of Cygan were of awe to be honest. I felt a new player, unknown and unwanted was difficult to come by and I was sceptical but match after match he fitted the bill well. Then the first few modes of criticism came about and I decided to try and find what people were saying. I went to the game, watched and nothing - yet the criticism was still there. Now if you look at Arsenal we win most games but for some reason this disgusting hatred and despise was attached to Cygan - even if he had a good game he was never given the credit he was due. Even the press were on his back when in fact he saved us in some games and we won games. We won games, but people didn't like him.
If Cygan was as regular as Gilberto it wouldn't be as bad but he never had that luxury as Keown took his place. Keown and Taylor gave him a hard time I remember. Blatantly highlighting and pushing him around defence in the face of fans who took their word for it when in fact stability was far too much to ask for.
Yes, even i **** myself when he got the ball, not because I felt he was crap but because he was actually good but a mistake would be all over most arsenal fans mouths.
KoLo28
Well-Known Member
it's obvious he's improved, i think the premiership is a bit too physical for him, yet saying that he is a great player. imo if we go for a new cb he should have premier league experience.
Exiled In Newcastle
Established Member
I don't think he has improved as much as some people think, I just thing people have got used to him and realised his strengths.
Firstly, I don't buy this pace argument. Adams, Keown and Bould never had much in the way of pace, and the same can be said for a hell of a lot of top centre halves.
When he first came into the team everyone was raving about him. But that was playing alongside Campbell. When he was shorn of Campbell (and more importantly Cole) he looked dodgy, but that was more down to the left hand of the defence looking dodgy, not specifically him. But being rather noticable (and having a couple of Linneganesque moments) he got the blame.
Also, there's two sorts of centre half. I call them first and second for want of a better description. First is the one that controls the middle, second is his deputy. There are very very few 'firsts' around (Adams, Campbell, and Keown are good examples) and every succesful pairing needs one. Then you have the 'seconds'. Excellent in their own right, but need a leader next to them. Cygan comes into this category, as does the much lamented Stepanovs, and also a certain Rio Ferdinand. You could add people like Upson to that list, and also the likes of Steve Bould! It's not a criticism, it's a fact.
Firstly, I don't buy this pace argument. Adams, Keown and Bould never had much in the way of pace, and the same can be said for a hell of a lot of top centre halves.
When he first came into the team everyone was raving about him. But that was playing alongside Campbell. When he was shorn of Campbell (and more importantly Cole) he looked dodgy, but that was more down to the left hand of the defence looking dodgy, not specifically him. But being rather noticable (and having a couple of Linneganesque moments) he got the blame.
Also, there's two sorts of centre half. I call them first and second for want of a better description. First is the one that controls the middle, second is his deputy. There are very very few 'firsts' around (Adams, Campbell, and Keown are good examples) and every succesful pairing needs one. Then you have the 'seconds'. Excellent in their own right, but need a leader next to them. Cygan comes into this category, as does the much lamented Stepanovs, and also a certain Rio Ferdinand. You could add people like Upson to that list, and also the likes of Steve Bould! It's not a criticism, it's a fact.
Exiled In Newcastle
Established Member
Oops - who pressed submit!
Anyway, the classic pairings need a 'first'. You can have two 'firsts' (ie Adams/Keown or Adams/Campbell or Campbell/Keown) and one will take the dominant role, or a first/second (Adams/Bould, or, say, Adams/Stepanovs) and it'll work. but two 'seconds' and you've got problems.
And btw - before you laugh to much at Stepanovs being mentioned alongside Adams, look at how they actually performed together. Not too shabby, was it???
Anyway, the classic pairings need a 'first'. You can have two 'firsts' (ie Adams/Keown or Adams/Campbell or Campbell/Keown) and one will take the dominant role, or a first/second (Adams/Bould, or, say, Adams/Stepanovs) and it'll work. but two 'seconds' and you've got problems.
And btw - before you laugh to much at Stepanovs being mentioned alongside Adams, look at how they actually performed together. Not too shabby, was it???
seanconvey66
Well-Known Member
He has improved but his fundamental flaw is one he cant improve on and that is his complete lack of pace. Lets face it if someone goes past him, he aint catching them. Koller even tore strips off him for dortmund last year and hes a right clumbsy donkey!
reggiepaul
Well-Known Member
seanconvey66 said:
Dunno where my post went but the whole Cygan pace thing is actually quite bizarre. When told that he lacks pace I decided to watch him and see what all the fuss was about. Was he really that slow? What I saw was something I never believed or thought of possible.
He actually looks as though he is moving in slow motion. It's like he is this character out of the first matrix movie and he goes in slow motion. I bet the whole bullet time thing was based upon Cygans movements.
He's a bit like the terminator - strong solid robotic movements and he also looks like the terminator too.
Anders Limpar
Active Member
Finally we have enough players to rotate in the defense, Sol, Toure, Cygan and even old Keown can do the job in the middle and Cole, Clichy, Toure and Lauren at the wings...
...like it!!!
...like it!!!
mood
Well-Known Member
When he started his first game this season.. whenever he'd get the ball I always thought he would be able to control it properly and mess everything up like last season. But to be honest, Cygan has not disappointed me AT ALL this season! ..he definently has improved. He may not be the best CB, but I can atleast trust him now.
