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Dani Ceballos: Back For Another Season

Discussion in 'Arsenal Talk' started by yousif_arsenal, Sep 4, 2020.

  1. Monstar-Gunn4r

    Monstar-Gunn4r Well-Known Member

    A lot of his options for passing were cut out but done well to keep the ball moving and made quite a few passes forward IIRC. That play with Saka for the goal was a relatively simple combination but fairly effective, I could see him repeating that a lot.

    I noticed Saka making 3-4 runs early in the first half that weren't being found or any balls played for them. The next time Ceballos got the ball he ran across the midfield and tried to play him in. He was clearly looking for opportunities to make incisive passes but West Ham were fairly well organized and without the option Tierney gives him in playing it forward he couldn't be as effective.
     
  2. bingobob

    bingobob Fan of Technicians Who Show Great Character Trusted

    That wee tackling combination he got in was way more enjoyable after knowing Nketiah had a go at him for similar. The terrier I thought Torreira would be.
     
  3. dka91

    dka91 Well-Known Member

    Pretty good defensively and set up the winner so can't be sniffed at.

    Not his best though.
     
    blaze_of_glory likes this.
  4. TakeChillPill

    TakeChillPill Well-Known Member

    Can do Xhakas job, we can't have him and Xhaka in the same team.
     
  5. Riou

    Riou Non-Stop Nostalgia

    Even when he doesn't play well, he always delivers a scrappy performance for the team, like that about him.

    Would like to see him next to a midfielder who can actually run.
     
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  6. krackpot

    krackpot Established Member

    He's going to have to improve a lot. They kept walking through the midfield like he wasn't there
     
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  7. The_Playmaker

    The_Playmaker Established Member

    He can't improve his speed and agility.

    At some point people are just going to have to come to terms with the fact that Xhaka and Ceballos are not good enough. The opposition tell you what you are good and bad at.

    For example, Antonio left Gabriel and pinned himself on Holding.

    Teams do not need to press Xhaka or Ceballos. They just block passing lanes. All they do is pass and the fact that they are not even that incisive means that if you block off their passing lanes, they don't do anything.

    They are not good enough or brave enough to get the ball to Willian and Saka between the lines. They are not good enough to dribble past someone. We need to revamp the midfield or we will struggle against a low block all season.
     
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  8. yybecause

    yybecause Formerly known as ArsenaLover

    At some point you will have to come with the terms that they are class players with lots of qualities. To say they cant do this or they cant do that or they can only do this... maybe if you were 6 years old and you had to say something about them, it would make sense then...
     
  9. DanDare

    DanDare Emoji Merchant and Believer-In-Chief

    Can you refute anything he's said though? Xhaka just can't take the ball, turn with any speed or take ball in half turn already and open the game up for a quick pass. Ceballos takes too many touches and again the play is slowed down.

    Think Ceballos with good coaching can improve. Xhaka is just what he is now. Ok for some opponents and games but limited
     
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  10. yybecause

    yybecause Formerly known as ArsenaLover

    bla
     
  11. The_Playmaker

    The_Playmaker Established Member

    I never said they don't have qualities. They are not class players though. They are adequate for the first stage of our development.

    Saliba is developing. We will take our time with him and to be honest he probably shouldn't see that many first team minutes this season, but will be ready towards the end of the season. There are is no rush with Mustafi available soon.

    Xhaka is a good passer. However that is all he is. He can occasionally switch play and play a channel ball. He fizzes it out to the left flank really well. However he has massive limitations.

    He doesn't play the ball between the lines enough. Saka and Willian were showing. Both Ceballos and Xhaka couldn't find them. They just played the ball wide or back.

    Xhaka also needs the ball in the correct place , so he can look up and play it forward, he needs a circle of space at least 3 metres around him before he feels comfortable to scan the pitch. If he doesn't feel that comfort, it's a first time pass back to where it came, or it goes wide or backwards, or he buys a foul.

    We need a player to scan his surroundings and know what he is going to do before he even gets the ball. We also need that player to be able to adapt to a change in situation and be able to turn away from pressure like Fabregas used to, or be able to take a touch and go past them like Thiago does.

    Ceballos takes too many touches, Xhaka doesn't get his head up till he feels comfortable. Two players who lack the ability we need to take the game to the opposition.

    Currently this team can handle a press just about. We can play from the back around it. We can play on the break. Teams will figure out our exit strategy which is usually Tierney and then they will deal with the passers in midfield. The only way around that is better players who can beat a man and play passes around the corner.

    Ceballos played exactly like Guendouzi yesterday. Yes he got the assists but look at the bigger picture. He was about to be subbed for Elneny.

    Teams will start to respect us more, and that means a deep block which we do not have the players to break down. It's not good having Saka, Willian and Pepe, three players who can beat s deep block, when you have Xhaka and Ceballos. Two players who can't break lines.

    We need to upgrade on them, just as much as we need to upgrade our centre forward. Lacazette does not cause enough of a problem for defenders. He is too predictable. We need a mobile forward who can also drift left allowing Auba to go central. Someone who is also a threat on the dribble.
     
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  12. Mitch

    Mitch Bellerin Upgrade Advocate

    Lead the team in tackles and inceptions whilst being second only to Gabriel for blocks and cleareances.

    This myth about Ceballos being too light weight or not contributing enough defensively is aload of rubbish.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
    Pop Tart, DanDare and Maybe like this.
  13. Maybe

    Maybe Well-Known Member

    Saying for a while now that he is our best defender. Not only that he reads the game well, but he will also put tackles in and win the ball.
    I can understand some of the stuff like too many touches (although I don't agree with it), but he is an amazing contributor to our defensive side of the game.
     
  14. Tir Na Nog

    Tir Na Nog In Big Trouble If He Speaks

    Sherwood saying he's weak and not good enough got massive criticism on here. I think there were some elements of true even though the criticism was a tad OTT, yet there he was being bullied by Soucek and Rice all game. Not that he was on his own same can be said for Xhaka, in general it probably just highlights the need for Partey in there, it'd lessen the importance of Ceballos in terms of his physical attributes in games like yesterday and would allow more focus on what he does best.

    I think he could be a lot more effective if he wasn't being tasked with covering a lot in a defensive sense, he's done pretty well in that regard but yesterday he really looked poor in terms of the physical midfield battle. It didn't help that the game was so 50-50 and we had little control of it that it became such a battle as opposed to us dominating in terms of possession, in that case it'd have been less of an issue.

    The issue then would be tho balance. Ceballos-Partey in the current system would be fine I think, tho neither are a 6 and both are best at performing a similar role. Unless you get Partey to be the deeper of the two, but in that case you arguably take away some of Partey's best attributes. I think Partey could be a 6 and an effective one, you look at how Fernandinho, who was quite an attack minded box-to-box midfielder before his conversion to being a lone 6 and I think Partey could be similar. But a lot of Partey's best attributes are best used further up the pitch. I think in any case it'd be a nice headache to have.
     
  15. Maybe

    Maybe Well-Known Member

    I think at this point we are so scared to play football that this midfield restructuring you're talking about will simply not happen, even if we would have money for it.
    When I see Pepe on the bench and 3 CB's at home vs West Ham, I don't think any player change can help us with our bottom half mentality. We are simply too scared currently to take any risks in our game, so your idea of football where one of our midfielders will simply run with the ball through the lines will never work.
    This game was a draw for me, not a win, and that was against a poor West Ham side at home. We are riding our luck atm, overachieving, and fooling ourselves that we are doing well.
     
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  16. KenyanGoon

    KenyanGoon Member

    This is spot on regarding Xhaka's limitations. He rarely provides through balls or penetrative passes. He prefers the safer pass or to retain control of possession which results in a backward/sideways pass but that makes our buildup play so slow and predictable.
     
  17. The_Playmaker

    The_Playmaker Established Member

    He contributes, but he is still postionally loose, and some of those statistics stem from him letting the ball get away from in the first place.

    He is a good player, and I would have him ahead of Xhaka, but on transition he isn't recovering at all. Once you are past him, you are at our defence.
     
    Mrs Bergkamp likes this.
  18. yybecause

    yybecause Formerly known as ArsenaLover

    I lost you at Xhaka is a good passer and that's it.

    You gotta really believe you are a god if you think a player can have a career he is having just by being a good passer.
    It's not up to me to show you his qualities if you that's your comment on such player.
     
  19. The_Playmaker

    The_Playmaker Established Member

    You can have a career in football by being a good professional, 6 foot tall, good stamina and one standout attribute. There are countless examples of this in world football let alone England. It's all about being in the right place at the right time.

    Xhaka has limitations. Here is an example. He doesn't have the chest controlled required of a midfielder who plays for Arsenal. I repeatedly see Xhaka with the opportunity to bring the ball down on his chest, turn away and pass the ball. Instead he stoops down to play a headed pass with very little power and loses the ball near enough every time. That's one example of a limitation and he has many more. Obviously there are things that he is good at, but he has so many that hinder us when playing a team in a deep block as we need to push up to probe which he can't help with and then on the counter he is a liability
     
    dbig likes this.
  20. sdotzdot

    sdotzdot Well-Known Member

    It’s unfair to say Ceballos is only able to pass and if you cut that off he has nothing else to offer, in fact I would say that’s just downright false.

    He has shown glimpses of much more. I do agree that Xhaka and Ceballos together is not good enough and just about doing the job right now, but you’re downplaying Ceballos very much here.
     
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