Declan Rice: All Hands On Dec

[Clrnc]

Then people need to stop calling him world class or the best midfielder in the league. His limitations on the ball is a big part of why Arsenal look so bad.

Fans always like running power, tackles and basically the obvious things on the pitch that you see and clap. Gerrard and Lampard are well rated those days as well for loud things like this while players with more classy subtle style like Carrick and Hargreaves were way too underrated.

It has always been like this.

But objectively if you look at world football, Rice is still easily top 5 2-way CMs in the world for the defensive things he bring to the pitch. When we were playing well and Rice was MOTM in many games, I maintained that Pedri and Vitinha is a level higher and still hasn't changed that opinion. You simply have to run the game like them in both boxes and not just defensively only to be considered the best

 

[BigPoppaPump]

Fans always like running power, tackles and basically the obvious things on the pitch that you see and clap. Gerrard and Lampard are well rated those days as well for loud things like this while players with more classy subtle style like Carrick and Hargreaves were way too underrated.

It has always been like this.

But objectively if you look at world football, Rice is still easily top 5 2-way CMs in the world for the defensive things he bring to the pitch. When we were playing well and Rice was MOTM in many games, I maintained that Pedri and Vitinha is a level higher and still hasn't changed that opinion. You simply have to run the game like them in both boxes and not just defensively only to be considered the best

He's great defensively but offers nothing offensively other than set pieces, he's not top 5 two way CMs he's top 5 at winning duels I'll give you that.

I agree with your first paragraph about what people like but this is a big reason as to why England don't win anything, they don't respect the playmaking side of the game.

 

[GoonerJay24]

Casemiro and Makele are actually good at passing or building up, or least underrated. Casemiro one of Man Utd's best passers right now. You can't be too wedded to possession football since all the best teams will dominate possesion it's just natural.

The thing is Rice is English, rarely do English midfielders know how to pass the ball which is why they're always running with the ball rather than passing, Rice is praised for his 'ball carrying' not playmaking skills. People always sh*t on the other players in midfield but he gets away with murder.

True, Makelele was definitely underrated in that aspect. But I still wouldn’t say they played in pure possession-based teams built on short passing from the back. When Casemiro was at United in Ten Hag’s second season, his limitations in dictating play and receiving from deep were exposed. Madrid weren’t really a possession team either, but Kroos usually led the build up from midfield.

I agree as well, British midfielders generally lack the poise and passing range to be elite playmakers. There have been a few exceptions like Carrick, Scholes, maybe Wilshere, but most are more box2box profiles. That ultimately comes down to coaching and football knowledge

 

[GoonerJay24]

The most important thing to Arteta is winning duels and that's what Rice excels in, he's the perfect Arteta player. I think he'd fit in a Klopp system too since it's about working hard and the forwards like Mane and Salah can create for themselves.

But he'd never be able to play in Fergie's midfield, Alex Ferguson liked to have quality passers like Scholes and Carrick in midfield, Rice is just a runner and tackler. Don't tell me he's like Roy Keane either.

Profile wise, he is more Roy Keane. Not the same level though of course

 

[Trilly]

Well sorry that when people tell me about world class midfielders I expect someone that can create chances and play passes through to the attack. Didn't know we now praise midfielders for doing CB stuff but I'm just old school I guess.

This is more about you having a problem with people calling Rice a world class midfielder.

I understand where you’re coming from though but like @A_G said the real problem you have is with Arteta trying to ‘cheat’ by having a player like Rice be his second most attacking midfielder when at most top sides (and in games like this) you really need more going forward from the player in that role. But that’s Arteta to a tee, he’ll try to sneak as much defensive capability into every position/role on the pitch as he can without impacting the offensive side. CBs at FB and our general attacking tactics are great examples too.

One of his major major issues is that he’s getting that balance wrong and Rice as the 8 has worked overall but isn’t a resounding success imo and that’s why the consensus on him will never be 100% in that role. I rate Rice really highly but I lean towards agreeing with you here and posted something similar earlier

Pedri I’m not sure about but I think overall Vitinha is a better midfielder than Rice even though it’s difficult to compare them.

I just don’t see any weaknesses in Vitinha’s game, he’s not as good as Rice defensively but I wouldn’t call the defensive part of his game a weakness. Unfortunately with Rice there are some weaknesses going forward which bring down his overall rating.

Nobody’s going to accept Rice as the best midfielder in the world until he does something similar to Rodri’s Balon D’or season. That’s the blueprint for a more defensive minded midfielder being the best itw imo.

Rice is very very good at what he does and is okay enough going forwards that he’s only one tier below the likes of Balon D’or Rodri, Vitinha and Pedri. Any other manager would view Rice almost as an extra defender like you do and partner him with two absolute ballers who cover his weakness. This is an Arteta problem.

 

[A_G]

Pedri. Any other manager would view Rice almost as an extra defender like you do and partner him with two absolute ballers who cover his weakness. This is an Arteta problem.

That was the original plan, don’t let anyone gaslight you otherwise:



Rice at left 8 was an overcorrection from this not working, and then we never went back to the dual 10’s set up consistently. Just amazes me that a guy who was at City when they had Fernandinho playing a similar role behind Silva and KDB would try to reinvent the wheel in midfield instead of just doing a better job with recruitment.

 

[Trilly]

That was the original plan, don’t let anyone gaslight you otherwise:

View attachment 45340

Rice at left 8 was an overcorrection from this not working, and then we never went back to the dual 10’s set up consistently. Just amazes me that a guy who was at City when they had Fernandinho playing a similar role behind Silva and KDB would try to reinvent the wheel in midfield instead of just doing a better job with recruitment.

Yeah I was very excited about Rice with two 10s. Basically lets you overwhelm teams with sheer attacking quality and quantity all made possible by having one of the very few DM’s in the world who can let you get with that.

The plan only failed because his talent ID failed. I see the vision with having basically a striker as the other no10, I even admire the fact he tried to go even more attacking than Pep’s version. In hindsight it should have been someone with actual midfield ability which is probably why Mount was the first choice for that role but let’s not even get into why he was Plan A in the first place.

The bolded mirrors my thoughts exactly.

 

[HollandGooner]

I think Rice is a very good pure defensive midfielder. If you ask him to protect the defence he will be up there with Caicedo as the very best in the world.

He is definitely not the issue in the team. Of course he is mechanical and his passes are always overly obvious but we are poor in attack not because of him even though he is so limited on the ball.

Always thought Zubi and Rice is pure overkill. need far more creativity.

 

[Rasputin]

Yeah I was very excited about Rice with two 10s. Basically lets you overwhelm teams with sheer attacking quality and quantity all made possible by having one of the very few DM’s in the world who can let you get with that.

He's got Ode and Eze as the two 10's but hasn't used them together

 

[HollandGooner]

He's got Ode and Eze as the two 10's but hasn't used them together

I do not want to compare players but just look at City for example with Silva and Cherki they offer a lot of creativity on the ball and thats what we are lacking in midfield though.

 

[GoonerJay24]

I do not want to compare players but just look at City for example with Silva and Cherki they offer a lot of creativity on the ball and thats what we are lacking in midfield though.

But Rodri provides that platform of physicality and technical control. We don't have a 6 like that in the squad

 

[HollandGooner]

But Rodri provides that platform of physicality and technical control. We don't have a 6 like that in the squad

I agreed, but Rice can play that role perfectly. we really need to come up with something different to match the quality on the ball City have in midfield next week.

 

[GoonerJay24]

I agreed, but Rice can play that role perfectly. we really need to come up with something different to match the quality on the ball City have in midfield next week.

It's not about matching City's quality. Did Mourinhos teams dominate Wengers midfields technically? No. But generally he won the games against us

What we need next Sunday is to go direct and take advantage of the wide areas. 442, keep Havertz close to Gyokeres

 

[DanDare]

Embarrassing display at the end there standing like he did for the cameras. Looked like he was a few seconds off sitting on the floor like Gallas.

 

[Batman]

He's got Ode and Eze as the two 10's but hasn't used them together

A light breeze puts Ødegaard on the treatment table for weeks so that's part of it. He also never planned to buy Eze and only did so because of the Havertz injury so his plan coming into the season was not to play with 2 10s. It was always to go all in on Rice as a box to box player and over time it has evolved into some weird double pivot nonsense where they take turns attacking and upset the balance of the midfield in the process.

 

[Yousif Arsenal]

I think rice really pushing himself to limit her i thought these two weeks off could do him a favour.

 

[2Smokeyy]

Hmmm…

 

[Yousif Arsenal]

Hmmm…

Interesting they don't seem trusting Gabriel much?

I mean Rice should be our main captain hopefully they'll make change next season

 

[Aubamabludclat94]

Why are people saying he was pissed today at the end? Didn’t see it

 

[Rex Caudillo]

Interesting they don't seem trusting Gabriel much?

I mean Rice should be our main captain hopefully they'll make change next season

Cannot be Ødegaard at this point. Same vibes as Tommy Vermaelen lifting the FA Cup in 2014 lmao.