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Declan Rice: Cooking Again

GoonerJay24

Well-Known Member
He needs to be "unlocked" like Tets did with Xhaka. The guy is still young playing probably the most complex position in the game. He's the best off the ball 6 in the world and he has great long ball technique. Just needs to adapt to a more progressive game.

People are such mugs just throwing a young player under the bus who has been performing at an outstanding level 90% of his first season with us.

We'd be FAR worse off without him this season and that's a fact

Adapting to progressive football, the issue is; certain aspects of football can't easily be taught at this stage in a players career. Technical level is innate. We will struggle executing our primary style with Rice playing at 6, especially against good defensive teams. Ive been saying this from thenfirst page on this thread; but fans get an instant dopamine hit when we make a big money signing.

Rice himself, repeatedly stated this season he's not an 8. Theres solutions, and I still believe Rice has immense midfield potential. However, as someone mentioned above, Arteta must change the system we have been developing in recent years. If he continues to deploy Rice in our current midfield setup, we will keep being exposed by better teams and savvier coaches.
 

North5

Here since 2009. Unlike Cornavirus.

Country: England
Adapting to progressive football, the issue is; certain aspects of football can't easily be taught at this stage in a players career. Technical level is innate. We will struggle executing our primary style with Rice playing at 6, especially against good defensive teams. Ive been saying this from thenfirst page on this thread; but fans get an instant dopamine hit when we make a big money signing.

Rice himself, repeatedly stated this season he's not an 8. Theres solutions, and I still believe Rice has immense midfield potential. However, as someone mentioned above, Arteta must change the system we have been developing in recent years. If he continues to deploy Rice in our current midfield setup, we will keep being exposed by better teams and savvier coaches.

He already has the technical level to play long progressive passes from deep though. He just tends to play it safe. He also has good ball carrying ability. He also is good at shooting from the edge of the box. We don't need him being a tika taka ball retaining attacking 8.

He can be moulded into an elite all round 6. He's still very young for the position. If we actually had a proper attacking 8 and more attacking depth / quality then this wouldn't be an issue. He's also done a better job at 8 than either Fabio or Havertz. Which is a testament to our lack of quality there.

We have our best defence in decades and it's hugely in part to Rice. The Saliba, Gabbi, Rice base should be more than enough to allow the 5 attacking players in front to have the freedom of movement to get our attack going. Plus whatever we want to do with our fullbacks and distribution focused keeper.
 

Rasmi

Negative Nancy

Country: England
He already has the technical level to play long progressive passes from deep though. He just tends to play it safe. He also has good ball carrying ability. He also is good at shooting from the edge of the box. We don't need him being a tika taka ball retaining attacking 8.

He can be moulded into an elite all round 6. He's still very young for the position. If we actually had a proper attacking 8 and more attacking depth / quality then this wouldn't be an issue. He's also done a better job at 8 than either Fabio or Havertz. Which is a testament to our lack of quality there.

We have our best defence in decades and it's hugely in part to Rice. The Saliba, Gabbi, Rice base should be more than enough to allow the 5 attacking players in front to have the freedom of movement to get our attack going. Plus whatever we want to do with our fullbacks and distribution focused keeper.
He really doesn’t. He can do a long cross pass when he has time and space and he sets himself up. But he has poor vision and can’t play quick one touch passes. The more I think about it the more this signing feels a big mistake that set up back
 

North5

Here since 2009. Unlike Cornavirus.

Country: England
He really doesn’t. He can do a long cross pass when he has time and space and he sets himself up. But he has poor vision and can’t play quick one touch passes. The more I think about it the more this signing feels a big mistake that set up back

The guy has the best dead ball ability in our team. He has very good long range passing and has elite level game reading defensively. If you think that's not a good foundation for a 6 to develop before he has reached his prime for the position then good thing you're not a coach really.

He doesn't need to be playing passages of quick one touch passing. We need someone ahead of him doing that.

Must just be a coincidence we have one of our best defensive record in decades with a 6 who has been elite at winning the ball back. Set us back hugely, clearly.

Not his fault Arteta ****ed up and hasn't sorted out a Xhaka replacement and he's been forced to play at 8. Which has done an alright job at but not great
 

Rasmi

Negative Nancy

Country: England
The guy has the best dead ball ability in our team. He has very good long range passing and has elite level game reading defensively. If you think that's not a good foundation for a 6 to develop before he has reached his prime for the position then good thing you're not a coach really.

He doesn't need to be playing passages of quick one touch passing. We need someone ahead of him doing that.

Must just be a coincidence we have one of our best defensive record in decades with a 6 who has been elite at winning the ball back. Set us back hugely, clearly
Huge thing for a 6 is quick mind and good vision. If you have quick mind you can move the ball quickly and open things up for your team. Rice always need 2-3 touches to gather the ball. There is a reason even now you rarely see him find Ødegaard in the pocket. By the time he gets control of the ball and look up the space is gone. For me too many times he looks like a CB playing as midfielder
 

North5

Here since 2009. Unlike Cornavirus.

Country: England
Huge thing for a 6 is quick mind and good vision. If you have quick mind you can move the ball quickly and open things up for your team. Rice always need 2-3 touches to gather the ball. There is a reason even now you rarely see him find Ødegaard in the pocket. By the time he gets control of the ball and look up the space is gone. For me too many times he looks like a CB playing as midfielder

So you don't think having another ball playing midfielder will help there and you don't think he'll ever be able to develop the ability to do that? Besides the fact he does already have very good long ball ability

Saying he's set us back is clearly a huge exaggeration as we have significantly improved in a key area that he has had a massive part in.

You don't need every 6 to be a Busquets. He needs a proper partner.
 

Rasmi

Negative Nancy

Country: England
So you don't think having another ball playing midfielder will help there and you don't think he'll ever be able to develop the ability to do that? Besides the fact he does already have very good long ball ability

Saying he's set us back is clearly a huge exaggeration as we have significantly improved in a key area that he has had a massive part in.

You don't need every 6 to be a Busquets. He needs a proper partner.
Having another ball player deep to do what the 100 million man can’t do won’t help that much. That will mean we will remain way too dependent on Ødegaard. We been beyond lucky Ødegaard has been fit all season. Without him honestly we would struggle against most midfields we come up against

The best of bad situation we can do is buy another creative mid. Has Rice as permanent 6 and develop a way to bypass him in general play. The less he is on the ball the better and make him focus exclusively on defending

But I maintain we should never bought him
 

North5

Here since 2009. Unlike Cornavirus.

Country: England
Having another ball player deep to do what the 100 million man can’t do won’t help that much. That will mean we will remain way too dependent on Ødegaard. We been beyond lucky Ødegaard has been fit all season. Without him honestly we would struggle against most midfields we come up against

The best of bad situation we can do is buy another creative mid. Has Rice as permanent 6 and develop a way to bypass him in general play. The less he is on the ball the better and make him focus exclusively on defending

But I maintain we should never bought him

When I say partner I mean another high level midfielder , however he is employed. All we have currently is Ødegaard.

We can agree to disagree on the transfer itself. But people are writing him off as a complete clogger who will stay that way.

I think he's the best defensive 6 in the world which is a huge asset. And he needs to develop the other aspects of his game but I trust his ability to do so. He's 1/3 of the puzzle for a top level midfield.
 
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Macho

DJ Machodemiks
Dusted 🔻

Country: England
The more I think about it the more this signing feels a big mistake that set up back

Was about to argue against this, but the fact we need to sign another player to bring out the best of him is kinda backwards. So far under Arteta that previously would be mean you were out/limited etc.
 

GoonerJay24

Well-Known Member
He already has the technical level to play long progressive passes from deep though. He just tends to play it safe. He also has good ball carrying ability. He also is good at shooting from the edge of the box. We don't need him being a tika taka ball retaining attacking 8.

He can be moulded into an elite all round 6. He's still very young for the position. If we actually had a proper attacking 8 and more attacking depth / quality then this wouldn't be an issue. He's also done a better job at 8 than either Fabio or Havertz. Which is a testament to our lack of quality there.

We have our best defence in decades and it's hugely in part to Rice. The Saliba, Gabbi, Rice base should be more than enough to allow the 5 attacking players in front to have the freedom of movement to get our attack going. Plus whatever we want to do with our fullbacks and distribution focused keeper.

It's not really about long, progressive passes; any Premier League-level player can execute these without pressure. He struggles to receive the ball half-turnes from center-backs and with timing his movements to do so. Why? Because subconsciously, he lacks the technical toolkit to pass and turn under pressure. His one two touch passing is limited or looks awkward and unnatural when he attempts it.

I agree, that he can be molded into an elite number 6 or box-to-box midfielder—just not in a short-passing game. While he's outperformed others in the 8 role, overall, he has been more of a box-to-box player, making runs rather than contributing to the buildup, incision phase, or combining with others in playing quick one-twos. If you're costing £100 million as an '8' in a passing team, you need to offer these aspects.

It's our best defense in three seasons, but we don't yet know how many goals we'll concede by game 38. However, I'm not discussing Rice's defensive out-of-possession work; of course, he's been elite and works really hard.
 

GoonerJay24

Well-Known Member
He really doesn’t. He can do a long cross pass when he has time and space and he sets himself up. But he has poor vision and can’t play quick one touch passes. The more I think about it the more this signing feels a big mistake that set up back

Agreed, it's a bad signing if Mikel intends to continue playing this style. I don't know why people are scared to question and criticise.
 

North5

Here since 2009. Unlike Cornavirus.

Country: England
It's not really about long, progressive passes; any Premier League-level player can execute these without pressure. He struggles to receive the ball half-turnes from center-backs and with timing his movements to do so. Why? Because subconsciously, he lacks the technical toolkit to pass and turn under pressure. His one two touch passing is limited or looks awkward and unnatural when he attempts it.

I agree, that he can be molded into an elite number 6 or box-to-box midfielder—just not in a short-passing game. While he's outperformed others in the 8 role, overall, he has been more of a box-to-box player, making runs rather than contributing to the buildup, incision phase, or combining with others in playing quick one-twos. If you're costing £100 million as an '8' in a passing team, you need to offer these aspects.

It's our best defense in three seasons, but we don't yet know how many goals we'll concede by game 38. However, I'm not discussing Rice's defensive out-of-possession work; of course, he's been elite and works really hard.

I think we can both agree he isn't an 8, and it's a waste by Mikel to put him there. He'll never be that tricky 8 we need.
 

Mrs Bergkamp

Double Dusted
Dusted 🔻
I would say Rice is more than just a water carrier, due to his positional intelligence, which allows him to intercept and cut off passing lanes effectively. This type of player has always had a place in English football. However, my point is that his best attributes do not align with our style; so why invest so much in him? People overcomplicate football, but fundamentally the game boils down to simple principles. What style have we been developing in recent years? Possession-based. What is the main technical component of this style? Passing. What is Rice's best technical attribute when in possession? Driving with the ball. Is he an elite passer i.e. Rodri, Alonso, Busquets? No.

It’s baffling then, that an astute coach like Mikel, who extensively analyzes football, fails to recognize the essential player profiles needed to maximize his game model. In possession-focused teams, the number 6 role is crucial, yet Rice lacks the close control and passing accuracy to justify such a hefty price tag. His struggles were evident during the World Cup; take, for example, England's match against Senegal in the round of 16.

Now, because he was so costly and has been significantly overhyped, Mikel is hesitant to substitute him during games. I’ve maintained this position all season, slated both here and on Twitter. Yet now, these same people are beginning to question him. He's getting paid a lot of money and lives comfortably but, I actually feel sorry for Declan.
I believe that Arteta thinks he can improve players which whilst true doesn't mean that he can transform them into something they're not and have no chance of becoming eg Jesus, ESR and Eddie wearing 9, 10 and 14 is heartbreaking tbh. Rice has been much better than I thought (I didn't want him in the summer) but there's a reason that Partey's injury has been so ruinous for us.
 

BigPoppaPump

Reeling from Laca & Kos nightmares
I believe that Arteta thinks he can improve players which whilst true doesn't mean that he can transform them into something they're not and have no chance of becoming eg Jesus, ESR and Eddie wearing 9, 10 and 14 is heartbreaking tbh. Rice has been much better than I thought (I didn't want him in the summer) but there's a reason that Partey's injury has been so ruinous for us.
I was pretty much going to come here and say this, although I think you’re being harsh on Jesus like that Mel Gibson film.

I was probably Rice’s biggest critic and I think he’s been great this season mainly at winning duels which is the most important thing to Arteta. However I just don’t see him ever becoming a playmaker that can dictate from deep.

I don’t think England ever produces midfielders like that. Passing just isn’t treated as important in this country so all the midfielders tend to be similar in style.
 

Riou

In The Winchester, Waiting For This To Blow Over

Country: Northern Ireland

Player:Gabriel
Watching how excellent Xhaka was in the second half v Leverkusen, just made me pine for that Rice-Granit midfield even more.

C'est la vie, I guess 🙁

Moved on from this and crying over this what could have been now, possibly partnering Rice in midfield...



... imagine if he didn't get injured as he's only like 31 now, should be our captain too...just not fair 😭
 

BigPoppaPump

Reeling from Laca & Kos nightmares
Was about to argue against this, but the fact we need to sign another player to bring out the best of him is kinda backwards. So far under Arteta that previously would be mean you were out/limited etc.
A lot of people saying the things I was saying a year ago if you noticed, but he's better than what I gave him credit for. Winning duels is the most important thing to Arteta and there isn't many better than Rice at that.

Progressive passes aren't really that important if you always win the ball back and can create from all over the pitch but obviously you want someone in the 6 that can be a playmaker as well as win the ball back. Partey was Arteta's perfect 6 but his reputation is in the dirt now.

Never actually seen the film just the South Park episode on it.

Moved on from this and crying over this what could have been now, possibly partnering Rice in midfield...



... imagine if he didn't get injured as he's only like 31 now, should be our captain too...just not fair 😭
Never seen a player live off one performance their whole career like this one, it wasn't even that special tbh. This guy should've just learned how to be a deep lying playmaker or a RW instead of trying to be a driving midfielder.
 

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