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Does Wenger deserve a statue at the Emirates?

Oxeki

Match Day Thread Merchant
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:lol:
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
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Just saw that thread.....How can that even be a question? o_O
We should be instead asking ourselves that question "When will the Wenger statue be unveiled"? I would not mind calling the Stadium the Arsène Arena either.
Should be discussing whether it's a bronze or gold plated statue.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
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With Ferguson, you can argue until Jose and Chelsea, nobody could compete with him financially. That’s a huge advantage for him, from the mid to late 80’s all the way to early 2000’s.
Fans aren't really interested in looking deeper than the glitter of bought trophies. Ferguson was a manager able to capitalise on his advantages though, that's not in doubt.
 

say yes

forum master baiter
Been a long time since we've seen one those @say yes vs @Makingtrax epic fight
Nah, I’ve unloaded enough for this year.

Going back to treating him like those people who hang around Oxford Circus all day hollering about Jesus and how it’s time for us sinners to repent.

Eyes down, cross the road, avoid the crazy person.
 

say yes

forum master baiter
For what it’s worth, 442 recently published a list of their greatest 100 managers of all time:

Ferguson came first, but we had three managers in the top 50 which is quite impressive:

23. Arsène Wenger
25. Herbert Chapman
50. George Graham
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
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Been a long time since we've seen one those @say yes vs @Makingtrax epic fight
What's this fight boll*cks? :lol:

He knows his agenda driven drivel about Ferguson being so much better than Wenger looks bad when it's pointed out that he had 11 times more to spend, so he lashes out at the messenger. Understandable really, psychology 101.:lol:
 

Oxeki

Match Day Thread Merchant
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Nah, I’ve unloaded enough for this year.

Going back to treating him like those people who hang around Oxford Circus all day hollering about Jesus and how it’s time for us sinners to repent.

Eyes down, cross the road, avoid the crazy person.
:lol:
 

Mo Britain

Doom Monger
With Ferguson, you can argue until Jose and Chelsea, nobody could compete with him financially. That’s a huge advantage for him, from the mid to late 80’s all the way to early 2000’s.
Ferguson left because he had nothing to prove, because of his age but also because he saw the writing on the wall. We gifted him that last title by selling Van Persie to them on the cheap but he probably would not have won a title after that and it would have been painful to end his career with three or four seasons of increasing mediocrity and the "noisy neighbours" pissing all over them.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
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Prefer to look deeper into stuff, than the surface clap trap that everybody spouts. Harry Styles isn't a talented musician because he's sold millions of downloads. Simon Cowell spent a fortune promoting him.

Measuring football managers against expectations and investment is far more meaningful. Of course the managers of the richest teams get the most honours. Just saying they're the greatest football managers of all time is too simplistic and a waste of bandwidth.
 

Oxeki

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Like @Makingtrax said, wenger overperformed against expectations for so long. But you gotta also argue that some of his tactics killed us. Yeah, we played the best football that I've ever seen in my life, but only to get destroyed by similar team to us us, not because they had better players than us, but because Wenger was tactically naive.

That was partly why we fell off.

The game against Liverpool in 2013/2014 at the Anfield where we were pummeled. Surely, you'll blame Wenger for that?

So of our embarrassing games had nothing to do with spend, but everything to do with the managers tactical flaw.

A lot of fans saw this, that's why they were angling for a new manager
 

bingobob

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He wasn't even in the same ballpark as Wenger. If Ferguson had had Wenger's spend for even a few years, we'd never even had heard of him.

Ferguson winning a European trophy with Aberdeen and breaking Celtic and Rangers strangle hold on Scottish football is one of the greatest achievements in football.


Ferguson got off to a terrible start at United and turned it around. He saw off the financial muscle of Blackburn, Newcastle (who at the time acquired the most expensive player in the world in Alan Shearer), us, Liverpool, Chelsea and City.

As for the money spent issue please see the links I've added below. But to save you time in the first ten years of the Premier League in each season United were only the highest spenders twice.

In Arsenes first 4 seasons he spent £55m United in the season period spent £69m with the bulk of that spend coinciding with the year they won their treble. Overall in those four years in two of them we spent more than they did. So Ferguson did have Wengers spend and we still heard of him.

Have United spent money of course they have. But so did we. the difference was and remains our divergence from spending on players to spending on bricks and mortar. United had a massive stadium already which they could expand. Supplemented with years of success they grew. We decided to plough our transfer kitty into a stadium and regressed. Wenger done excellent to stay in touching distance.

Ferguson done everything Wenger wanted to do. Win, win with style, develop young players and have them be the spine of a successful team, develop a Britsh core, help elevate young talent to becoming the best in the world.

They were both fantastic coaches that took different paths. Ultimately the respect they have for each other to me says they see a bit of themselves in each other and finally yes Wenger deserves a statue.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/manchester-united/transfers/verein/985/saison_id/1996

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...fer-spending-year-by-year-under-Arsène-wenger

https://www.football365.com/news/the-biggest-spender-in-every-pl-season-and-how-they-fared

(Football365 has Newcastle as the biggest spenders in 1996/97 however the Bleacher report reports we spent 20million which is higher than the figure stated in football 365 for the same year)
 

Makingtrax

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Like @Makingtrax said, wenger overperformed against expectations for so long. But you gotta also argue that some of his tactics killed us. Yeah, we played the best football that I've ever seen in my life, but only to get destroyed by similar team to us us, not because they had better players than us, but because Wenger was tactically naive.

That was partly why we fell off.

The game against Liverpool in 2013/2014 at the Anfield where we were pummeled. Surely, you'll blame Wenger for that?

So of our embarrassing games had nothing to do with spend, but everything to do with the managers tactical flaw.

A lot of fans saw this, that's why they were angling for a new manager
Wenger's low spend formula was incredible, and made him compete with much more expensive teams.

In essence it was to acquire some young talented players, then motivate and develop them to attack at speed. It was so effective that every year he accumulated an average of mid seventies points in the EPL.

OK, when he came up against the very richest teams it came unstuck, big style. But he never had the luxury of expensive players in all positions. You make do, with what you've got. For the players he had, his tactics were spot on.

I'm glad he wasn't a reactive manager like Emery, changing tactics to suit the opposition. He would have ended up mid table more often than not.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
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Ferguson winning a European trophy with Aberdeen and breaking Celtic and Rangers strangle hold on Scottish football is one of the greatest achievements in football.


Ferguson got off to a terrible start at United and turned it around. He saw off the financial muscle of Blackburn, Newcastle (who at the time acquired the most expensive player in the world in Alan Shearer), us, Liverpool, Chelsea and City.

As for the money spent issue please see the links I've added below. But to save you time in the first ten years of the Premier League in each season United were only the highest spenders twice.

In Arsenes first 4 seasons he spent £55m United in the season period spent £69m with the bulk of that spend coinciding with the year they won their treble. Overall in those four years in two of them we spent more than they did. So Ferguson did have Wengers spend and we still heard of him.

Have United spent money of course they have. But so did we. the difference was and remains our divergence from spending on players to spending on bricks and mortar. United had a massive stadium already which they could expand. Supplemented with years of success they grew. We decided to plough our transfer kitty into a stadium and regressed. Wenger done excellent to stay in touching distance.

Ferguson done everything Wenger wanted to do. Win, win with style, develop young players and have them be the spine of a successful team, develop a Britsh core, help elevate young talent to becoming the best in the world.

They were both fantastic coaches that took different paths. Ultimately the respect they have for each other to me says they see a bit of themselves in each other and finally yes Wenger deserves a statue.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/manchester-united/transfers/verein/985/saison_id/1996

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...fer-spending-year-by-year-under-Arsène-wenger

https://www.football365.com/news/the-biggest-spender-in-every-pl-season-and-how-they-fared

(Football365 has Newcastle as the biggest spenders in 1996/97 however the Bleacher report reports we spent 20million which is higher than the figure stated in football 365 for the same year)
Yeah, I was talking about the whole 17 year period of their rivalry. I have a spreadsheet with all their spends from 96 to 2013 from Transfermarkt and there was only one period where Wenger came close to United and that was the late nineties early naughties. After that Arsenal fell behind drastically from 2004 onwards. Ferguson spent 11 times what Wenger had over that whole period.
 

bingobob

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Yeah, I was talking about the whole 17 year period of their rivalry. I have a spreadsheet with all their spends from 96 to 2013 from Transfermarkt and there was only one period where Wenger came close to United and that was the late nineties early naughties. After that Arsenal fell behind drastically from 2004 onwards. Ferguson spent 11 times what Wenger had over that whole period.
as I said the difference was our strategy diverged from spending on players to spending on bricks and mortar. To a point we were spending relatively similar amounts and having relative success. The pinnacle being the invincible season that coincided with our peak spending years.

You could simply argue that Wenger was a cheque book manager because once the cheques on footballs dried up so did his success on the pitch. Which ultimately seems your aim as you've said without money nobody would know who Ferguson was.

It's the same argument that people make for Pep. if only he didnt have money? Might it be that without money these managers would be latter year Wenger. Doing a good job in difficult circumstances. Close but never able to bridge the final gap? Some great football but done over on the big occasion?
 

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