Eddie Nketiah: Better than R9?

[Mark Tobias]

i think people are more angry that previous academy products hadn’t been given a real chance in the first team as opposed to having not been good enough. When we spend years developing a talent it seems sad to bin them off before actually trying them out. .

No sorry but most of the people trying to display this viewpoint are the same posters who complain we never challenge for the league. You can;t have it both ways.
How many minutes did Phil Foden play in City's record breaking PL win season again? Oh yes, very little.
Fact is, youngsters are a hindrance to good play. Great for their development but rubbish for the club's. It is a balance play and I for one am glad we didn't gift those players chances they didn't deserve or we may have fallen out of the top four sooner than we did.

 

[Beksl]

One thing I noticed is he bulked up during the off-season. It shows he's got character and drive to get better which is something our youngsters from previous generations lacked.

 

[krackpot]

Binned by wolves yet you think he'd do a job here. How low are your standards for this club?

Mkhi was binned by Utd, Alexis was binned by Barca, Henry by Juventus ro whoever, Bergkamp by Inter(?).

It just doesn't depend fully upon the individual. The players around matter too.

 

[krackpot]

How have Akpom, Aneke and Afobe proved they can deliver in the Premier League?

Pretty clear to see why none of them were given more opportunities, they were nowhere near good enough. I don't see this as a 'track record' and think we give more opportunities to players than City, United and Chelsea and are at least on par with Liverpool and Sp**s. If Nketiah is good enough he will get his chances I'm sure.

How do they know when they haven't given been chances?

Afobe and Aneke especially were scouted by Barca at one time. They were outstanding for the reserves, yet never played a senior league game.

The post below is what I am alluding to.

i think people are more angry that previous academy products hadn’t been given a real chance in the first team as opposed to having not been good enough. When we spend years developing a talent it seems sad to bin them off before actually trying them out. I pray Eddie will be different and will get some serious game time (without his path being blocked should he not instantly produce the goods). In my opinion we need to show more faith in the kids and hope under Unai we will. Other clubs seem to have a lot more productivity coming via their academies in terms of players becoming fully fledged premiership players albeit with their inital club or once sold on. Hoping we start adding mandatory buy back clauses too.

good post.

 

[TornadoTed]

How do they know when they haven't given been chances?

Afobe and Aneke especially were scouted by Barca at one time. They were outstanding for the reserves, yet never played a senior league game.

The post below is what I am alluding to.
good post.

I could understand the outrage if they weren't given a chance here and then went on to be superstars at other clubs but Afobe has been very average at Wolves and Bournemouth and I think has found his level at Stoke. If Aneke and Akpom go onto to be top Premiership players then I will accept I was wrong but I think it is highly unlikely.

I actually think we are pretty good at giving young players opportunities. Currently Iwobi and AMN are in the first team squad and it looks like Smith-Rowe, Nketiah and Nelson will all get minutes this year. Alexander-Arnold was about the only 1st team regular in the other top 6 clubs last year and that was mostly down to Clyne's injury.

 

[razörist]

I don't know why these guys are not given more opportunities?

Akpom, Aneke, Afobe..i had tremendous hopes for them, and they have proved that they can deliver in the Premier League.

I do hope Nketiah remains at AFC for a long time and becomes an important player for us, but hard to see that happening with out track record.

Why do you say that they have proved that they can deliver in the prem?

 

[Lidl_Reed]

Is Messi even that good compared to Eddie? It's like comparing Walcott to someone mediocre like Ronaldo

 

[Mark Tobias]

Mkhi was binned by Utd, Alexis was binned by Barca, Henry by Juventus ro whoever, Bergkamp by Inter(?).

It just doesn't depend fully upon the individual. The players around matter too.

All of those players you mentioned had obvious quality and didn;t fit their systems or were behind better players at the time. Same can;t be said for Afobe or anyone else. You're reaching here.

The bloody audacity of mentioning DK10 and TH14 in the same breath as Afobe. JC!!!

 

[MutableEarth]

How do they know when they haven't given been chances?

Afobe and Aneke especially were scouted by Barca at one time. They were outstanding for the reserves, yet never played a senior league game.

The post below is what I am alluding to.
good post.

Afobe tore his ACL twice, his development was severely stunted as a result. That he's at least of mid-table quality is decent for him, particularly when Akpom was on the come up at that time.

With Aneke, the game was too easy for him IMO and he didn't assert himself when it mattered. I don't think the loans helped him but it was similar problem to JET IMO. JET had great talent but didn't apply it strongly enough.

The argument can easily go both ways. There are times I felt Arsenal didn't strike while the iron was hot. IMO the turning point in Akpoms Arsenal career was Wenger signing Sanogo instead of having Akpom as the 3rd choice. His development could have been way different if he was afforded the opportunities that Sanogo got.

I do think it's a bit reactionary to say they have proven themselves as PL ready because honestly they haven't. Aneke hasnt even played Championship football yet. Even Afobe has struggled in the PL and he's arguably more successful than the others. We will see how Akpom survives in Greece. I will agree that if they were afforded more opportunities to play for us then their development could have been different. But it's a fine line, and while I would have preferred we give them that, the club still have ambitions that would necessitate more guaranteed returns and that means forgoing the untested talents.

The hope is that now we have a system in place where we can afford to give them more opportunities without sacrificing much. I'm sure we will see more of the younger players get opportunities now.

 

[krackpot]

Why do you say that they have proved that they can deliver in the prem?

they proved themselves in the reserves many times over. if we cannot give our best youth players even a single game, why have an academy? anyway, it's moot.

Afobe tore his ACL twice, his development was severely stunted as a result. That he's at least of mid-table quality is decent for him, particularly when Akpom was on the come up at that time.

With Aneke, the game was too easy for him IMO and he didn't assert himself when it mattered. I don't think the loans helped him but it was similar problem to JET IMO. JET had great talent but didn't apply it strongly enough.

I'm sure we will see more of the younger players get opportunities now.

Amen.

Aneke is still my darling. Hope he makes it big.

 

[Mark Tobias]

they proved themselves in the reserves many times over. if we cannot give our best youth players even a single game, why have an academy? anyway, it's moot.

No idea how proving themselves in the reserves equates to proving themselves in the PL. I think you're hugely underestimating the step up needed from reserves to first team level.

 

[Lidl_Reed]

Bojan was a legend in the reserves for Barcelona, he couldn't hack it at the top.

Afobe will, if all goes to plan, be a top striker at a midtable team or a rotation option at a top team

 

[Jae]

We just can't afford to be carrying youth players for the sake of their development. In all honesty we don't need youth at the minute, we need instant impact and instant results.

1. You're good enough for the first team.
2. You aren't good enough, you go out on loan until you are.
3. You will never be good enough, you get sold.

Some of the current crop of youth players have shown promise, but there aren't any who are anywhere near good enough at the minute.

 

[Lidl_Reed]

Some of the current crop of youth players have shown promise, but there aren't any who are anywhere near good enough at the minute.

Niles is a youth player. So was Bellerin. Nketiah looks good enough to be third choice, starting in the Cups.

Emile Smith Rowe looks good as well.

 

[Jae]

Niles is a youth player. So was Bellerin. Nketiah looks good enough to be third choice, starting in the Cups.

Emile Smith Rowe looks good as well.

I wouldn't class AMN as a youth player anymore, definitely should be starting more games this season against lesser opposition. Bellerin obviously was but I'm talking about our current crop.

I don't know why any 19 year old would want to be third choice striker and get the odd game here and there in the cup or 10 minutes at the end of a PL game when he could potentially go on loan somewhere and get tonnes of game time. If it was me at 19 I'd want to be playing every game and getting all the experience I could.

 

[krackpot]

No idea how proving themselves in the reserves equates to proving themselves in the PL. I think you're hugely underestimating the step up needed from reserves to first team level.

Well then I have no other way apart from what I see, and FM/FIFA ratings.

A guy who has scored 30 goals in 25 games for the reserves should get a sub appearance, at the least. Or if it such a huge difference, just disband our academy, FFS.

As @MutableEarth says, we have been quite partial against our academy products. Always prefer buying from outside, for example: Sanogo shouldn't have been ahead of Akpom. Maybe that is the price of (non-existent) success.

Sadly, I can see it repeating again, perhaps with Josh Da Sliva, and maybe others.

 

[Mark Tobias]

Or if it such a huge difference, just disband our academy, FFS.

As @MutableEarth says, we have been quite partial against our academy products. Always prefer buying from outside, for example: Sanogo shouldn't have been ahead of Akpom. Maybe that is the price of (non-existent) success.

Sadly, I can see it repeating again, perhaps with Josh Da Sliva, and maybe others.

Talk about knee-jerk. Go look at all the academys. How many clubs are bringing through top talent in England? Harry Kane is about the only player I can think of who was given a chance and succeeded at a top 6 club. AND he went on several loans before they took the chance...

Breaking into the top tier of football is extremely difficult. It isn't just about talent. There is a huge mentality needed. We don;t know what happens behind the scenes but I can guarantee you we have a huge track record for giving youth a chance compared to the other top teams.

 

[krackpot]

Talk about knee-jerk. Go look at all the academys. How many clubs are bringing through top talent in England? Harry Kane is about the only player I can think of who was given a chance and succeeded at a top 6 club. AND he went on several loans before they took the chance...

Breaking into the top tier of football is extremely difficult. It isn't just about talent. There is a huge mentality needed. We don;t know what happens behind the scenes but I can guarantee you we have a huge track record for giving youth a chance compared to the other top teams.

agreed, but we should be faithful. for guy who have been at the academy since 6-7 years of age, it would be heartbreaking to keep performing so well and not even get a sniff. Afobe scored almost 70 goals in three season for the juniors (Wikipedia).

Players like Steven Fletcher, Nicky Butt and others were kept at Utd for almost 10 years. They could have been replaced with foreign guys but the Utd people persevered with them and they became fantastic players.

I am not criticizing our academy, or Wenger for not playing the guys, but I feel we have been very haphazard in this. There should be a clear indication to the players (and us) that you need to score, say 35 goals in a season to get into the first team.

 

[scytheavatar]

We just can't afford to be carrying youth players for the sake of their development. In all honesty we don't need youth at the minute, we need instant impact and instant results.

1. You're good enough for the first team.
2. You aren't good enough, you go out on loan until you are.
3. You will never be good enough, you get sold.

Some of the current crop of youth players have shown promise, but there aren't any who are anywhere near good enough at the minute.

Then why the freak are we carrying non youth players in their mid 20's for the sake of their development? You know those that I am talking about, the ones who constantly get given excuses by fans when they underperform yet get showered with praises when they give slightly better than average performances. Meanwhile countless fans actively root against the likes of Iwobi and Holding succeeding, you know the ones who actually are youngsters.

 

[Jae]

Then why the freak are we carrying non youth players in their mid 20's for the sake of their development? You know those that I am talking about, the ones who constantly get given excuses by fans when they underperform yet get showered with praises when they give slightly better than average performances. Meanwhile countless fans actively root against the likes of Iwobi and Holding succeeding, you know the ones who actually are youngsters.

Wenger's sentimentality and misplaced loyalty I would presume.