Edu Gaspar

[drippin]

Mate, I'm not Stan or Josh Kroenke so my opinion is hypothetical because I'm in no position to make it reality.

Don't worry Arsenal aren't going to replace Edu just because I've written it on a football forum so I wouldn't take it all too seriously

Oh really? Wow mate, thanks for the info.

 

[Artisan]

Why does Edu even need to do these so called big/complex deals for anyway? If his current methods have brought us to the top, he should continue doing the same thing instead of changing the profile of our targets. It only makes sense to start questioning things when it stops working.

Also completely disagree with what someone said earlier, unless you are backed by an oil state it's definitely harder to get to the top than stay there. Took Liverpool 30 years, has taken us more than 20 years so far.

 

[db10_therza]

Why does Edu even need to do these so called big/complex deals for anyway? If his current methods have brought us to the top, he should continue doing the same thing instead of changing the profile of our targets

There’s a few reasons in my mind:

- When you’re on the road to the top you can afford to take time to polish diamonds and go on 8 game losing runs and whatever. But once you’re at the top the margins are razor sharp. Just look at us now - we’ll all have panic attacks if we drop any points at Everton. This is why we don’t want to give any playing time to guys like Marquinhos and Sambi now, whereas we were happy to give time to Martinelli when he was raw. Without playing time they just won’t develop in to what we need them to.

- The level of the team that you are trying to improve is elevated. So it’s harder to find any old player that can make you better. Think of how many players in world football could come in and improve our first 11. There’s surprisingly few names in each position, which is of course an enormous credit to the recruitment and player development done to date.

- The profile of the club is bigger. Sellers will have their guards up because suddenly they’re dealing with Arsenal, the champions of England as opposed to Arsenal the banter club. This will make all our negotiations that little bit harder and more complicated. We’re not gonna be getting ANY favours like City did with Jesus and Zinchenko. I’m fact I’m sure I read that they had board level inquisitions as to how they let that happen and to make sure it never happens again.

I’m sure there’s other reasons as well.

 

[CaseUteinberger]

People should also remember that now that Edu didn't get his big targets in January, he still put a message to the other clubs, which is that Arsenal can't be pressured to overpaying and that the other clubs have to think twice about refusing a bid, because there might not be another one even for #1 targets.

People think it was total failure but can't see the effects for the coming years in negotiations. It's a similar kind of thing as Bloom now did regarding Brighton not being able to be pressured to sell players with long contracts, especially in January.

100% this! There have been complaints about us overpaying for players, being played by other clubs and agents and being incoherent in our transfer dealings during earlier windows. Now that we are anything but over the last several windows, people still moan, but now about something totally spurious. I think how we handled the two big money signings we tried to make good. We had our evaluations. We were willing to move somewhat but backed off when the price was no longer right while still getting 3 good signings through the door at very reasonable prices.

 

[Bagels]

Love that Edu has incited a civil war on an Arsenal forum indirectly, while he’s out there kissing some toes while grilling a steak.

 

[DJ_Markstar]

I don't understand why what I'm saying is so hard to understand

I'm not unhappy with the business we did this window. I rated it a 7.5 window. I like Trossard and Jorginho and the Polish kid ( Who I can't say I paid much attention to in the WC tbf) is a talent by all accounts.

But be realistic what we did was squad building. We missed out on two first eleven players (Mudryk and Caicedo) and brought in back ups.

I'm cool with that for this window because we did need depth but in the summer we're going to have to be improving the starting eleven. If we miss out on our big money targets bringing in Trossard or Jorginho level players just isn't going to cut it.

That's why I'm worried about Edu, not because I love Mudryk or Caicedo or thought they were good value for money. But the principle that we couldn't get high value deals over the line.

So what you're saying is Edu can go to the club and pick up that qt 7 who is giving you the eyes, but he is yet to walk into a group of hot chicks and pick up the 10 in front of her mates, when the pressure is on.

I guess we'll see in summer.

 

[El Duderino]

So what you're saying is Edu can go to the club and pick up that qt 7 who is giving you the eyes, but he is yet to walk into a group of hot chicks and pick up the 10 in front of her mates, when the pressure is on.

I guess we'll see in summer.

That's.... actually a very apt metaphor.

Wonder if the forum moan police will finally get it now.

 

[Bagels]

Why does Edu even need to do these so called big/complex deals for anyway? If his current methods have brought us to the top, he should continue doing the same thing instead of changing the profile of our targets. It only makes sense to start questioning things when it stops working.

Also completely disagree with what someone said earlier, unless you are backed by an oil state it's definitely harder to get to the top than stay there. Took Liverpool 30 years, has taken us more than 20 years so far.

Agree (generally) with the first bit.

Initially disagreed heavily with the second, though I understand your view. I need to think on it.

My intuitive feeling is true consistency at the top level is the gold standard in sport. It’s what made Wenger so special.

 

[DJ_Markstar]

Why does Edu even need to do these so called big/complex deals for anyway? If his current methods have brought us to the top, he should continue doing the same thing instead of changing the profile of our targets. It only makes sense to start questioning things when it stops working.

Very simply, because we had a pretty ordinary squad. This gives you far more capacity to leverage opportunity given virtually any top player you sign will easily improve you. That gets harder as you fill your squad with top talent.

Right now we only really have space for 1 forward and 1 midfielder in the squad, so if a top defender becomes available we might not bother doing the deal even though we could as its not a squad priority.

 

[db10_therza]

100% this! There have been complaints about us overpaying for players, being played by other clubs and agents and being incoherent in our transfer dealings during earlier windows. Now that we are anything but over the last several windows, people still moan, but now about something totally spurious. I think how we handled the two big money signings we tried to make good. We had our evaluations. We were willing to move somewhat but backed off when the price was no longer right while still getting 3 good signings through the door at very reasonable prices.

Finally you join us in the mosh pit

I agree with the idea we shouldn’t be bullied in the market and have maximum valuations that we don’t go beyond. BUT…

a) None of the 3 players we got in are “first 11” signings, either for now or for the future. This will not be the case in the summer. We need at least 1 first 11 quality cm, arguably 2…

b) So the strategy we used this window, where if we get shot down we go bargain hunting to keep our powder dry will not be good enough in the summer. No more dry powder please. Just very very moist powder. We need credible plan Bs.

c) I’ve made this point before, but a key part of this role is to have a good forecast of where players might trade. If you consistently have a maximum bid that is below the minimum offer then your valuation model needs a rethink. That’s just facts. I’m not saying we should pay up, but rather that we shouldn’t have gone for that target in the first place…

 

[CaseUteinberger]

Ok then mate. I forgot we’re not allowed to voice concerns about the future of Arsenal Football Club on a forum dedicated to Arsenal Football Club. I’ll bear this in mind.

Of course you can voice your concerns. Where have I said anything contrary to that? Just don't expect them to be supported by everyone, especially when they are not well founded or frankly a bit silly.

Above all, remember, words are not violence and critique is not harassment.

 

[drippin]

b) So the strategy we used this window, where if we get shot down we go bargain hunting to keep our powder dry will not be good enough in the summer. No more dry powder please. Just very very moist powder. We need credible plan Bs.

We have now two January transfer windows, where they kept the powder dry. Last one resulted in getting Jesus, Zinchenko and Vieira (this deal is likely in many installments and low wages).

You saw that Arsenal had even more money to spend now, and has likely UCL next season, and gets money from selling players next summer. So you can assume next summer will be bigger than last one.

c) I’ve made this point before, but a key part of this role is to have a good forecast of where players might trade. If you consistently have a maximum bid that is below the minimum offer then your valuation model needs a rethink. That’s just facts. I’m not saying we should pay up, but rather that we shouldn’t have gone for that target in the first place…

Again, White is the perfect example of not haggling too much if Arsenal and Edu value the player enough. But none of you have not commented on this fact about the transfer.

And regarding the other bolded part, Arsenal according to Athletic had Zubimendi -> Caicedo -> Jorginho from the available options that Arteta agreed were the best one's for his plans.

So what you're saying that Arsenal should have gone straight to get Jorginho.

 

[CaseUteinberger]

More like where is that damn point?

 

[db10_therza]

We have now two January transfer windows, where they kept the powder dry. Last one resulted in getting Jesus, Zinchenko and Vieira.

I’m saying Jesus and Zinchenko won’t happen again… we ain’t getting that level of player for 45m from a rival. If we tried pulling that this year city would say 100m or fk off. In fact they’d probably just say fk off…

You saw that Arsenal had even more money to spend, and has likely UCL next season, and gets money from selling players next summer. So you can assume next summer will be bigger than last one.

Yeah I’m confident we’ll have a decent budget to work with. What I am not sure of is whether we can use the whole budget on 1/2 players though or if the board set a maximum level for transfers for example.

Again, White is the perfect example of not haggling too much if Arsenal and Edu value the player enough. But any of you have not commented on this fact about the transfer.

I haven’t mentioned White? I was just speaking in hypotheticals tbh. I have absolutely no idea what valuation models we use for players. Not sure my experience with the Black Scholes model gonna translate unfortunately

And regarding the other bolded part, Arsenal according to Athletic had Zubimendi -> Caicedo -> Jorginho as the options that Arteta agreed were the best one's for his plans.

So what you're saying that Arsenal should have gone straight to get Jorginho.

Nah lol. I’m saying regardless of what the Athletic says, there is no way Jorginho is a long term alternative to a transfer for Caicedo. He’s a stop gap. And that was fine this winter. But it won’t be fine in the summer.

I’m feeling more and more confident about it though. Maybe you’re rubbing off on me lol. If Edu brings in Rice I’ll change my Avatar to Edu. If he brings in Camavinga though. Uff. If it wasn’t against my religion I’d be getting an Edu tattoo on my butt cheeks.

 

[Vinci]

If it wasn’t against my religion I’d be getting an Edu tattoo on my butt cheeks.

Frankly, a religion that doesn't allow Edu tattoo's is quite a horrible religion.

 

[CaseUteinberger]

So what you're saying is Edu can go to the club and pick up that qt 7 who is giving you the eyes, but he is yet to walk into a group of hot chicks and pick up the 10 in front of her mates, when the pressure is on.

I guess we'll see in summer.

Think that metaphor needs some adjustments since Edu would actually pay for either of the dates.

 

[drippin]

I’m saying Jesus and Zinchenko won’t happen again… we ain’t getting that level of player for 45m from a rival. If we tried pulling that this year city would say 100m or fk off. In fact they’d probably just say fk off…

Wasn't my point, the point was that keeping the powder dry in January meant that they got two very good players in January (Vieira is a question mark of course). So with even more money and UCL attraction we can expect even better transfers.

Yeah I’m confident we’ll have a decent budget to work with. What I am not sure of is whether we can use the whole budget on 1/2 players though or if the board set a maximum level for transfers for example.

Anyone can see that the team requires only a couple top players to be quite complete. So again I assume that Arsenal's management and board are not idiots who can't see it.

I haven’t mentioned White? I was just speaking in hypotheticals tbh. I have absolutely no idea what valuation models we use for players. Not sure my experience with the Black Scholes model gonna translate unfortunately

Yeah, but it was my example of Arsenal paying what Brighton wanted. Many thought 50 million for White is way too much. I didn't, and neither did Arsenal.

Nah lol. I’m saying regardless of what the Athletic says, there is no way Jorginho is a long term alternative to a transfer for Caicedo. He’s a stop gap. And that was fine this winter. But it won’t be fine in the summer.

He isn't, but from the sensibly available players he was the next one Arteta wanted. Which of course likely means that they rather took Jorginho to help with the title push, rather than buy someone like Onana (maybe for 60+ million or even more, they paid a lot for him and got Gordon money) as a stop-gap that blocks the summer moves for top midfielders.

I’m feeling more and more confident about it though. Maybe you’re rubbing off on me lol. If Edu brings in Rice I’ll change my Avatar to Edu. If he brings in Camavinga though. Uff. If it wasn’t against my religion I’d be getting an Edu tattoo on my butt cheeks.

 

[CaseUteinberger]

I’m not saying we should pay up, but rather that we shouldn’t have gone for that target in the first place…

But that assumes you already know the outcome. Like in all bidding processes you actually often do not know well what your counterpart's position is on various factors impacting their future decision. One can argue that Edu should know better what is doable versus what is not, but that is a bit dishonest as often there is little way of knowing other than actually making the offer. There is often much posturing to get to a good initial position, especially for bidding processes that are not very repetitive.

 

[db10_therza]

But that assumes you already know the outcome. Like in all bidding processes you actually often do not know well what your counterpart's position is on various factors impacting their future decision. One can argue that Edu should know better what is doable versus what is not, but that is a bit dishonest as often there is little way of knowing other than actually making the offer. There is often much posturing to get to a good initial position, especially for bidding processes that are not very repetitive.

But sometimes you do know right… most of this forum KNEW that Brighton wouldn’t sell late in the window for anything under 80m. We even had a poll on it ffs. I’d expect Edu to have way more information than us plebs. Everyone in the world knew that Shakhtar wanted 100m eur for Mudryk. They weren’t exactly shy about it… pretty sure our opening bid was 60?? Doesn’t matter if we think that was a lot for a Ukrainian kid or not, that’s what his owners valued him at.

I’d also expect him to get a pretty good indication from talks with them either before or after the first bid to know that he should walk away and save face instead of coming back again and again. This might be a case of him really not wanting to come back to Mikel empty handed idk, but if I was in his shoes I would’ve come back and told Mik it wasn’t happening.

These things all feed into reputation. Which matters, which is why you raised the point that it’s good that we have a reputation that we won’t be bullied which I agree with.

 

[El Duderino]

More like where is that damn point?

People are having a good grown up conversation, they're debating their points mostly fairly. They're not saying the club is bad or negating that a good job is being done, despite some people trying their hardest to make it up that they are.

Posters are just voicing what they think will be the next challange for the club and if they think if Arsenal (more specificaly, Edu) will rise up to it. It's a valid opinion to have and no one is badgering the club about it.

Some agree with it, some don't. What I don't see the damn point is coming in, policing what people are having conversations about when they're arguing like adults, while adding nothing to the discussion , because that's all you've done.