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Eduardo Camavinga

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dashsnow17

Doesn’t Rate Any Of Our Attackers
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That’s been our whole strategy for the past 3 years, it hasn’t worked.

People complain about Pepe but he was highly rated before he joined. Saliba was supposed to be the Varane before he become Varane but he’s not gotten the chance. Gabriel is another one who started bright but has gone a bit sideways in a difficult season where he’s rotated heavily. All from the French league too.

At best, Camavinga would have a Nasri type impact where he will show his quality here and there, not renew contract and go to a proper team when he’s ready to win trophies. Seen it all before tbh and I’m actually sick of Arsenal ruining so many careers - that young lad would do well not to come here.

He’s absolutely attainable though and spunking our budget and watching his development stall and complain about lack of leadership is just such an Arsenal thing to do - it needs to stop.

I'd say our strategy has been between two stools, youth and experience, and not nailing either. It's like the club wants to build long-term, but it's scared to miss out on CL so it always does something desperate to get top 4 right now. It'd be better to make peace with no top 4 for 1-2 seasons, target only younger players on lower wages, and actually build something.

And listen I get the frustration, we get linked to top prospects, sometimes we buy them, and it feels like they always fall flat, but that's not always the case. Tierney was a top prospect, we nabbed him, he's been good. Others will also come good. If you never gamble and go for the top prospects, you'll get nowhere imo. You have to make bets on talent. The two best players of the modern era, Messi and Ronaldo, were bets on talent. Barca gambled on him at 12, Utd gambled on him at 18. It didn't pay off straight away, eventually it did, cos the talent was there.

I'm sick of the lack of quality in this Arsenal squad, I mean real quality, there's barely any. I'd rather have a quality 18 year old than a good 23 year old.
 

HairSprayGooners

My brother posted it ⏩
I'd say our strategy has been between two stools, youth and experience, and not nailing either. It's like the club wants to build long-term, but it's scared to miss out on CL so it always does something desperate to get top 4 right now. It'd be better to make peace with no top 4 for 1-2 seasons, target only younger players on lower wages, and actually build something.

And listen I get the frustration, we get linked to top prospects, sometimes we buy them, and it feels like they always fall flat, but that's not always the case. Tierney was a top prospect, we nabbed him, he's been good. Others will also come good. If you never gamble and go for the top prospects, you'll get nowhere imo. You have to make bets on talent. The two best players of the modern era, Messi and Ronaldo, were bets on talent. Barca gambled on him at 12, Utd gambled on him at 18. It didn't pay off straight away, eventually it did, cos the talent was there.

I'm sick of the lack of quality in this Arsenal squad, I mean real quality, there's barely any. I'd rather have a quality 18 year old than a good 23 year old.

This, we may sign some under 23 players. But the quality of those players is either unheard of or meh. Tierney was the only under 23 in recent times who we've signed who is guaranteed quality. Saliba, despite his cost was unknown. Martinelli unknown. Guendouzi unknown. Torreira looked decent, I'd say he's the only real flop we've had in that age range.
 

Macho

In search of Pure Profit 💸
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Country: England
I'd say our strategy has been between two stools, youth and experience, and not nailing either. It's like the club wants to build long-term, but it's scared to miss out on CL so it always does something desperate to get top 4 right now. It'd be better to make peace with no top 4 for 1-2 seasons, target only younger players on lower wages, and actually build something.

And listen I get the frustration, we get linked to top prospects, sometimes we buy them, and it feels like they always fall flat, but that's not always the case. Tierney was a top prospect, we nabbed him, he's been good. Others will also come good. If you never gamble and go for the top prospects, you'll get nowhere imo. You have to make bets on talent. The two best players of the modern era, Messi and Ronaldo, were bets on talent. Barca gambled on him at 12, Utd gambled on him at 18. It didn't pay off straight away, eventually it did, cos the talent was there.

I'm sick of the lack of quality in this Arsenal squad, I mean real quality, there's barely any. I'd rather have a quality 18 year old than a good 23 year old.
I completely disagree sorry.

Quality 18 year olds is just a road to nowhere, they either fail to reach expectations and stay forever or become too good and because we're not doing much eventually leave, there's no pay off and nothing here to keep genuine world class. If Saka refused to sign another contract and left when he was 22 would we be surprised? No.

Also Tierney hasn't truly worked really - we had been forced to play makeshift (Saka, Cedric, Xhaka, Kolasinac) when it really counted FA Cup final's aside. Realistically we will have to buy in that position again but that's a different subject and not quality related.

It's false economy buying rated young players and just hasn't worked. We need more players in their prime - mid twenties. We have more than enough young talents than we know what to do with.
 

HairSprayGooners

My brother posted it ⏩
I completely disagree sorry.

Quality 18 year olds is just a road to nowhere, they either fail to reach expectations and stay forever or become too good and because we're not doing much eventually leave, there's no pay off and nothing here to keep genuine world class. If Saka refused to sign another contract and left when he was 22 would we be surprised? No.

Also Tierney hasn't truly worked really - we had been forced to play makeshift (Saka, Cedric, Xhaka, Kolasinac) when it really counted FA Cup final's aside. Realistically we will have to buy in that position again but that's a different subject and not quality related.

It's false economy buying rated young players and just hasn't worked. We need more players in their prime - mid twenties. We have more than enough young talents than we know what to do with.

I'd agree with you if we were buying a squad full of under 19's but we don't, we rarely ever buy established young players. They almost always go to bigger clubs.

Tierney's been one of our best players, only reason I can imagine you say he's not worked is due to injury.
 

Macho

In search of Pure Profit 💸
Dusted 🔻

Country: England
I'd agree with you if we were buying a squad full of under 19's but we don't, we rarely ever buy established young players. They almost always go to bigger clubs.

Tierney's been one of our best players, only reason I can imagine you say he's not worked is due to injury.
Exactly what I am saying, like I said its not quality related he's just not dependable. Besides the point anyways.

The squad needs balance, looking to 18 year olds to improve the team and lead just isn't right. If we had a coach renown for young player development then I'd have a different perspective, but our current manager played Saka are rwb or whatever yesterday.
 

HairSprayGooners

My brother posted it ⏩
Exactly what I am saying, like I said its not quality related he's just not dependable. Besides the point anyways.

The squad needs balance, looking to 18 year olds to improve the team and lead just isn't right. If we had a coach renown for young player development then I'd have a different perspective, but our current manager played Saka are rwb or whatever yesterday.

I mean KT has played over 3000 minutes for us this season, and the season has been insanely congested. The problem is not having a backup player to be able to actually rest him enough, once you have that there won't be an issue with KT.

You're correct, the squad does need balance. But Camavinga is arguably on the same level as Bissouma right now with a ridiculously high ceiling. Only thing Camavinga doesn't have is the PL experience. I believe we need 2 CM signings regardless. Would you not be happy with Camavinga and another, more experienced CM if say Xhaka were to leave? I just don't think you can pass up on Camavinga, but you're right the squad needs balance.
 

blrgooner

Established Member
I'd say our strategy has been between two stools, youth and experience, and not nailing either. It's like the club wants to build long-term, but it's scared to miss out on CL so it always does something desperate to get top 4 right now. It'd be better to make peace with no top 4 for 1-2 seasons, target only younger players on lower wages, and actually build something.

And listen I get the frustration, we get linked to top prospects, sometimes we buy them, and it feels like they always fall flat, but that's not always the case. Tierney was a top prospect, we nabbed him, he's been good. Others will also come good. If you never gamble and go for the top prospects, you'll get nowhere imo. You have to make bets on talent. The two best players of the modern era, Messi and Ronaldo, were bets on talent. Barca gambled on him at 12, Utd gambled on him at 18. It didn't pay off straight away, eventually it did, cos the talent was there.

I'm sick of the lack of quality in this Arsenal squad, I mean real quality, there's barely any. I'd rather have a quality 18 year old than a good 23 year old.
I mostly agree.I don`t even think we need to look so far ahead though. I think we need to have a balance. We cannot buy 9/10 or even 8/10 players. They are already off our budget and we are not in a position to attract such players. So I think we need a combination of 7/10 players and young players who may not be there yet but are potentially 9/10. What we are doing in recent times is buy 6/7 out of 10 players and convince ourselves that they are 8/9 out of 10.
Also, Just because we have been very poor at selling our assets till now doesn`t mean we would remain poor at that.
 

dashsnow17

Doesn’t Rate Any Of Our Attackers
Trusted ⭐
Why can a club like Dortmund buy talented teenagers who quickly go on to play really well for them, but we can't? I also don't think Arsenal are in *such* a dire state that an 18 year old wouldn't come here from Rennes. I don't know if he's on our list, it could just be a fluff rumour, but on paper I don't think it's so outrageous.
 

akhil

Well-Known Member
Why can a club like Dortmund buy talented teenagers who quickly go on to play really well for them, but we can't? I also don't think Arsenal are in *such* a dire state that an 18 year old wouldn't come here from Rennes. I don't know if he's on our list, it could just be a fluff rumour, but on paper I don't think it's so outrageous.

Bundesliga, outside of 3 like teams, the standard is pretty lousy. Attacking players break through really easily in that league. It's not about him wanting to come here rather than stay at Rennes, it's who's interested in him. If anyone half decent in Europe was interested in him, he probably would consider that over us. There's nothing exciting about playing for us. Dud players all around boring the fans with a wannabe manager.
 

akhil

Well-Known Member
Partey, Bissouma, Camavinga, Willock, Azeez.

Definition of black excellence in midfield. Nice variety of ages as well and with no European football you only really need 4 or 5 for two spots.

Why in the world would you want 5 players for 2 spots with no Europe? Worst case 40 game season with maybe 45 games played if we have semi decent cup runs.
 

dashsnow17

Doesn’t Rate Any Of Our Attackers
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Bundesliga, outside of 3 like teams, the standard is pretty lousy. Attacking players break through really easily in that league. It's not about him wanting to come here rather than stay at Rennes, it's who's interested in him. If anyone half decent in Europe was interested in him, he probably would consider that over us. There's nothing exciting about playing for us. Dud players all around boring the fans with a wannabe manager.

Yh no i'm not saying players would crawl through glass to come here, but I also don't think we're at a point where we're not even an option, especially for an 18 year old from Rennes, and especially if the other better clubs can't actually offer him much game time.

And sure the Bundesliga isn't the PL, but are we saying that Haaland, Sancho and Bellingham would have flopped if they arrived in the PL as teenagers? Talented teenagers have broken into the PL before, I don't see why Camavinga couldn't.
 

Goonger

Well-Known Member
Why in the world would you want 5 players for 2 spots with no Europe? Worst case 40 game season with maybe 45 games played if we have semi decent cup runs.

One is a youngster who I don't think has made a league debut, & Bissouma & Partey will be going to AFCON in January.
 

akhil

Well-Known Member
Yh no i'm not saying players would crawl through glass to come here, but I also don't think we're at a point where we're not even an option, especially for an 18 year old from Rennes, and especially if the other better clubs can't actually offer him much game time.

And sure the Bundesliga isn't the PL, but are we saying that Haaland, Sancho and Bellingham would have flopped if they arrived in the PL as teenagers? Talented teenagers have broken into the PL before, I don't see why Camavinga couldn't.

We can only guess if they'd have been successful in the PL. Haaland yeah, he was physically next level at 19. I'm not sure about the other 2.

Teenagers who break through in the PL are freakishly good for their age though; mostly in terms of their decision making or their physical ability. There quite a few players under Wenger who started out with a bang in the Carling cup only to never do anything significant in the league.

I don't know anything about Camavinga outside of Youtube so I can't say he'd be an instant hit here. The likes of N'dombele struggled when he came over who was far more experienced. I just wouldn't spent 30+ million on a another project which takes 2-3 years to fulfill their potential if they ever do. Would prefer a sure thing at those prices and make an impact straight away. Signings from within the PL or UK preferrably.
We aren't a Wenger team anymore where players would just come in from anywhere and they'd just fit in within the team immediately. Every signing post Wenger has basically struggled to some degree or just outright flopped. Tierney being the only exception.
 

akhil

Well-Known Member
One is a youngster who I don't think has made a league debut, & Bissouma & Partey will be going to AFCON in January.

Play the kid if he's that highly rated, he's physically ready already. It's not like we'll give him a league debut with another teenager in January. If he's gradually given starts from September in the League cup with some decent minutes in the league thrown in. He'd be a lot better prepared to start come January. This stuff is pretty basic in terms of promoting youth. Chambers, ESR can all fill in there in case of emergencies.

Why would you have an extra man in the squad for a month in a season? That additional person on a 4-5 year contract. That's how you end up with Cedric's and El Neny's in the squad. We actually have 4 RB options right now on the roster and none of them are actually good enough.
 

Sebastes

Statbomb Merchant
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Country: Sweden
For me Partey, Bissouma, Xhaka, young player*, Azeez would be a good setup. Overall upgrade on midfield, good age mix etc. Would allow Willock to go on loan for a full season and get some real consistency.

* = 19-21ish, broken through in senior football but in a smaller team in a lesser league. Not Camavinga, he's too high profile - rather think someone in the profile of Samuele Ricci from Empoli or Guendouzi when we got him.

I still wouldn't be against Sabitzer over Bissouma, depending a bit on what options we'll have at RB and AM/LW. Hard worker, excellent passing and vision. Shouldn't have too much of an adaptation period.
 

Goonger

Well-Known Member
Play the kid if he's that highly rated, he's physically ready already. It's not like we'll give him a league debut with another teenager in January. If he's gradually given starts from September in the League cup with some decent minutes in the league thrown in. He'd be a lot better prepared to start come January. This stuff is pretty basic in terms of promoting youth. Chambers, ESR can all fill in there in case of emergencies.

Why would you have an extra man in the squad for a month in a season? That additional person on a 4-5 year contract. That's how you end up with Cedric's and El Neny's in the squad. We actually have 4 RB options right now on the roster and none of them are actually good enough.

Im not saying we will sign 2 central midfielders, but in terms of numbers, we definitely need that amount to get through a season, be it keeping Xhaka or the like.

Do you think we could get through a season with Partey, Bissouma, Willock & Azeez for instance? You'd be quite happy for a central midfield pairing of Willock & Azeez for a month? And if 1 gets injured or the likes?!
 

HairSprayGooners

My brother posted it ⏩
Play the kid if he's that highly rated, he's physically ready already. It's not like we'll give him a league debut with another teenager in January. If he's gradually given starts from September in the League cup with some decent minutes in the league thrown in. He'd be a lot better prepared to start come January. This stuff is pretty basic in terms of promoting youth. Chambers, ESR can all fill in there in case of emergencies.

Why would you have an extra man in the squad for a month in a season? That additional person on a 4-5 year contract. That's how you end up with Cedric's and El Neny's in the squad. We actually have 4 RB options right now on the roster and none of them are actually good enough.

Why should you be thinking that we will have to play them there in an emergency though? We need 4 quality CM options and then one like Azeez who is coming through.
 
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