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Edu's Considering Transfer Targets: Summer 2022 🛒

If we only make one more signing, which would you prefer?


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lomekian

Well-Known Member
Is that so? I admit I haven't followed Tielemans much. But a quick look at defensive stats give a completely different picture:
Xhaka vs Tielemans in PL last season
Games 27 vs 32
Tackles 32 vs 74
Blocked shots 11 vs 20
Interceptions 21 vs 21
Clearances 28 vs 36
Recovering 148 vs 188
Yellows 10 vs 3

If anything, Tielemans seems to be doing far better defensively

Easy to rack up better defensive stats when your team spends much more time in defensive posture due to a complete inability to retain possession consistently in the opposition half.
Blocked shots and tackle stats generally reflect more on the team than the individual if you play as a CM.

I don't watch Leicester every week, but Tielemans is physically week, poor in the air, good at 'nicking the ball' tackles but that's about it, and loves a lazy leg dangle. Xhaka's lack of agility holds him back, but when we are under the cosh, he can offer decent defensive cover in multiple zones, where Tielemans is much more nimble but operates in less zones, and is not great on the cover.

Xhaka's card ratio cf Tielemans is partly reputational (booked for multiple offences for his only foul), partly because he gets caught covering others in zones Tielemans has never set foot in, and partly him getting isolated due to the team being caught up the pitch.

Stats are useful but only when adjusted for context.

I like YT, just know that he has very different strengths and weaknesses.
 

lomekian

Well-Known Member
He's been much better in the advanced 8 role. His lack of press resistance doesn't stand out when he plays further up the pitch. Should've seen it coming tbh, he did well in that role for Swizerland at the Euros too.
Also the position where he made his name, at least when breaking into the national team.

The timing of his runs has been excellent so far this season.
 

lomekian

Well-Known Member
I honestly fear that if we don't sign a mobile LCM(not tielemans) and real competition for Saka, we won't achieve our goals this season.

This transfer window is January all over again. Sp**s and Chelsea go the extra mile while we are happy with a lazy Saka and Granit Xhaka scoring and assisting in a game for probably the first time in his Arsenal career.

I've seen this movie to many times to know how it will end.

Edit: I don't understand what we are doing honestly.

Paqueta is the perfect fit for our team and Zaha is begging to join Arsenal for years.

Just get it done.
Arteta's been pretty explicit that they went to shift 1 or 2 more out and bring another 1 or 2 in. And he's not a salesman like Wenger who could charm us into believing any old **** until near the end.
 

Regista21

Member
So again for 2nd straight mikel not even bother to bring pepe for 5 minutes. What the point of having 150k a week on bench if manager don't trust him pepe need to sort this out.
Easy. As everybody knows by this point, Pepe was brought to Arsenal in a rather shade deal that has been put into investigation. No one in this planet will pay a salary like this to him. And he will not just left and lose his earnings. So the options Arsenal has are:
1) Loan him offering to pay part of the salary.
2) Keep him and use it as a rotation players in cup matches until 2024, when his contract ends and he will probably go back to France.
 

Regista21

Member
Easy to rack up better defensive stats when your team spends much more time in defensive posture due to a complete inability to retain possession consistently in the opposition half.
Blocked shots and tackle stats generally reflect more on the team than the individual if you play as a CM.

I don't watch Leicester every week, but Tielemans is physically week, poor in the air, good at 'nicking the ball' tackles but that's about it, and loves a lazy leg dangle. Xhaka's lack of agility holds him back, but when we are under the cosh, he can offer decent defensive cover in multiple zones, where Tielemans is much more nimble but operates in less zones, and is not great on the cover.

Xhaka's card ratio cf Tielemans is partly reputational (booked for multiple offences for his only foul), partly because he gets caught covering others in zones Tielemans has never set foot in, and partly him getting isolated due to the team being caught up the pitch.

Stats are useful but only when adjusted for context.

I like YT, just know that he has very different strengths and weaknesses.
At the same time, Arsenal badly needs a player who can work the ball like Tielemans.
In this case, the best case would be: Arsenal plays 3-2-5 in possession. Xhaka often stays on the left as a double with Partey. This season, Arteta has also used Zinchenko inverted as a double 6 and Xhaka more as a 8, closer to the box.
If Tielemans arrive, Arteta could move Partey to the left side of the double six, giving him the responsibility to cover for Zinchenko/Tierney and let Tielemans to cover the zone in front of the defense, like this:
White-Saliba-Gabriel
Tielemans-Partey
Saka-Odeegard Martinelli-Zinchenko
Jesus

A in-game varatiation to allow Tielemans to operate higher on the pitch and use his De Bruyne like crosses:
White-Saliba-Gabriel
Partey-Zinchenko
Saka-Tielemans Odeegard-Martinelli
Jesus

Now, you can argue Xhaka is better defensively than Tielemans, but it's harder to say he would cover better than Partey.

In my opinion, Tielemans is a no brainer and could see a huge increase in performance playing in Arteta's style of possession based football.

 

Tom349

Well-Known Member
Now that we clearly have a pattern on play. Can anyone think of signings we should make?

- If a LCM, they need to be box to box, have the ability to drift wide and also cover for the LB who might have tucked into CM

- If a winger, they need to be well rounded, able to hold down the wing on their own, help out defensively, ability to take on one or two men and add G/A.

Looking at the CM, i'm not sure thats Tielemans. He ticks the boxes going forward, but not coming back, not covering the LB.

Originally I was under impression that Viera was signed to be the back up to Ødegaard on the right of midfield but I wouldn't be surprised if he is actually the back up to Xhaka with Tielemans being the alternative to Ødegaard on the right.


Profile wise Tielemans and Xhaka are similar while Viera and Ødegaard are similar.
 

Tir Na Nog

Changes Opinion Every 5 Minutes
I think someone with the capability to play 6 (maybe someone who could play 8 and 6 if needed) should take precedence over a Tielemens signing in terms of priority. I mean Arteta confirmed Vieira will be vying for Xhaka's position, unless Tielemens is meant to compete with Ødegaard the other side, I doubt it, and we've still got Sambi so I don't see it as a necessity at all. Partey getting injured or something is a far bigger issue and as it forces us to alter our entire play as seen last season when he was gone and our season fell apart.
 

Yousif Arsenal

On Vinai's payroll & misses 4th place trophy 🏆
Moderator

Not strong link but if he keep improving we need to consider him next summer.

You know what just buy Brighton scouting staff they too good.
 
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