Emery's Loan Targets With An Obligation to Buy But We Want An Option to Buy Hopefully: January 2019

Discussion in 'Transfer Rumours' started by American_Gooner, Dec 12, 2018.


What two players would you prefer we got with the loan/buy shenanigans?

  1. Christopher Nkunku

  2. Ivan Perisic

  3. Aissa Mandi

  4. Malcom

  5. Denis Suarez

  6. Gary Cahill

  7. Yannick Carrasco

Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. Slartibartfast

    Slartibartfast CIES Loyalist

    Arsenal was not used to secure Kroenke's loan. This is a myth that's been perpetuated by Arsenal fans for quite awhile now, but Arsenal is safely separate from Kroenke's stadium venture (which, by the way, will be one of the greatest moneymaking ventures in sports history and as safe a bet as can possibly be imagined). Nor has he taken a penny from Arsenal to fund the stadium. Kroenke has a personal fortune of about $8.5 billion and, in a pinch, the Walmart fortune. He doesn't need Arsenal to leverage a loan. He put $1.6 billion of his own money into the project.
  2. al-Ustaadh

    al-Ustaadh Professor of Twitter

    Walmart isn't his - it's his wife's. My understanding is he took a large loan from the banks that he leveraged with his assets - Arsenal are part of those assets.


    Rams/Chargers Stadium cost sources
    Amount Source

    • $2.25 billion, Banks
    • $1.6 billion, Stan and Ann Kroenke
    • $400 million, NFL stadium financing
    Total: $4.25 billion

    Source: SportsBusiness Journal research

    Notice costs for the stadium continue to go up (previous estimations were $2.3 billion, and it's now over $4). And that the bank loans are more than double what I previously mentioned.

    Also... I think people are overestimating the pay-off of this stadium. NFL ratings have been on the decline, and as concerns over concussions increase, those numbers will continue to go down and ratings for soccer ("football") will go up (you have to realize this is a trickle down effect in American culture; people already wont let their kids play football until high school, which less and less are becoming interested in doing anyways). I don't expect the NFL to be around in 25 years (my dad played in the NFL and I've had conversations with Hall of Famers about this; if it survives, it wont be anything like what it is now as a sport - my dad jokes it'll be, "two-touch football"). I'm of the personal belief that rugby will probably replace it as a like-for-like while the fan bases for boxing and UFC will also go up. Kroenke is looking too much in the short term and he hasn't paid enough attention to the changing culture that surrounds the game, and at the same time they're pricing out their main fan base (the smaller market teams, which make up a good portion of the League, don't even come close to selling out games).
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
    celestis and 1CK1S like this.
  3. al-Ustaadh

    al-Ustaadh Professor of Twitter

    These are from 2017-2018. Yes, they're sourced as Arsenal PLC Holdings, but I don't think you'll see this current fiscal year's budget be released to the public next year given the takeover was completed in August/September.

    Edit: Also, I don't buy into these interviews he gives - it's a fake persona, the guy doesn't ****ing care. The fact you can find contradictive quotes shows that as well as the fact the Rams have only had recent success, while all of his other sports franchises have done awful.
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
  4. Slartibartfast

    Slartibartfast CIES Loyalist

    Walmart isn't his wife's either. She only has part of it. But if Kroenke needed a quick cash infusion from his wife and in-laws -- he doesn't -- he could swing it. But that's not the point. Neither is the cost of the stadium (about half of Kroenke's personal wealth -- alone, not including his wife, who has another $6.6 billion fortune of her own. Josh Kroenke has another $2.6 billion. And, of course, neither the stadium cost nor the loan are in any way relevant to Arsenal since Kroenke did not put Arsenal up in any way was collateral for the loan. Even if somehow he blew his entire fortune on this deal (instead of making another fortune, which is what will happen), the worst it could mean for Arsenal would be that he would sell the club (which I would think would make you happy).

    Whether the NFL is around in another 25 years is also irrelevant. They're around now and the stadium project will have been long-settled by that time. But the idea that an NFL franchise would be a money loser is preposterous. NFL attendance was down slightly overall in 2018 (a trend in all sports, actually), but 13 clubs saw attendance increases. Any guesses as to which team saw the biggest increase in attendance? Yep, the Rams. In fact, the Rams' attendance grew by 14.3 percent to 579,439. The Rams will also have an NFL tenant, the Chargers, paying them for using the stadium when the Rams aren't. So the Rams are already raking in the cash and will be making money head over heels once the new stadium is opened.

    By the way, the project is actually NFL proof anyway. Even if the NFL folded in 25 years (it won't) -- or 10 -- this isn't just a stadium like The Emirates. It's an entire entertainment district. The Washington Post described it as "bigger than Disneyland" and "perfect for L.A."

    They described it thus:

    At a cost estimated at more than $5 billion, the development – its formal name is the LA Stadium & Entertainment District at Hollywood Park – includes a 70,240-seat stadium and 6,000-seat performance center under one roof that will anchor a 298-acre complex of office buildings, shops, restaurants, residential units, hotels and parks. It’s 3 1/2 the size of Disneyland and twice as big as Vatican City.

    Look, if there's one person who knows how to make money on development projects, it's Stan Kroenke. He may not know a counter attack from an offside trap, but he knows development. This thing is going to be a huge cash cow. But, again, even if it fails, it has nothing to do with Arsenal. You can be upset that Kroenke isn't a personal plaything owner like Abramovich or Mansour, but the idea that Arsenal is being used to fund the Rams or the stadium is simply ridiculous.

    Beksl and Dj_sds - like this.
  5. Slartibartfast

    Slartibartfast CIES Loyalist

    Arsenal has broken its transfer record twice in the past 18 months or so. How can you argue that they may have stopped spending money since 2017?

    And how many times do I have to say it? The success or failure of the American sports franchises he owns (or that Josh owns, specifically the Nuggets and Avalanche since Stan had to divest himself of those teams to buy the Rams) is completely irrelevant to Arsenal. American sports do not operate in the same way. It's comparing apples and bananas.

    That said, again not that it relates to Arsenal in any way, the fact is that when Kroenke took over the Rams just before the 2010 season, they were the worst team in the NFL. They were coming off a 1-15 season. They've shown steady improvement through the years of his ownership until finally hitting on the right combination through several years of good drafting, a dynamic young coach and a handful of good free agent signings. To portray Kroenke's ownership of the Rams as anything but a success is a dishonest narrative.

    Also, the Nuggets currently have the second best record in the Western Conference and the Avalanche are in the thick of the Stanley Cup playoff hunt again. So even if you could argue that this alleged lack of success with his American teams had anything remotely to do with Arsenal, it would be rather difficult considering the success they're having.
    Beksl and Dj_sds - like this.
  6. al-Ustaadh

    al-Ustaadh Professor of Twitter

    This just proves my point... It's only the larger market teams.

    With relation to Stan, Walmart is his wife's.

    It's important to note that Kroenke isn't cash rich, he's asset rich. This was reported by Forbes when he took over Arsenal.

    Is it not basic business practice to leverage your assets for bank loans to be utilized towards other enterprises?

    Time will tell. But as an American, and with the conversations I hear, I don't see the NFL being the money maker it is right now in the next couple of decades, and I still don't think the League will be around come 2045. Health costs and the player's union will have a big role to play in that (not to mention the dwindling fan base).

    I'm not upset that Kroenke isn't a plaything owner. I'm more upset that he isn't an owner who cares about the Club and its community. The countries may be different, and so may the laws, but give it time... he'll double-cross the Club and its fans at some point. I only hope I'm wrong.
  7. Slartibartfast

    Slartibartfast CIES Loyalist

    I'm not going to go over this point by point again. I have something of a life (even if it's only watching Hogan's Heroes). But, again, what the NFL may or may not be in 25 years is completely irrelevant. Kroenke will be dead by then, somebody else will own Arsenal and the stadium and entertainment complex will have been a cash cow for a couple of decades.

    However, I did just find this from Bloomberg:

    "The Los Angeles Rams’ Super Bowl berth has been good news for its merchandise business, with the team ringing up about $3.5 million in online sales in the 10 days after they clinched a spot in the big game."

    But you go ahead and live in Kroenke conspiracy world if you want. There's no evidence for anything you're claiming. It sounds like an episode of Alex Jones' radio program.
  8. al-Ustaadh

    al-Ustaadh Professor of Twitter

    I didn't say anything about Arsenal not spending money. Yes, we've been self-sustainable. My point is how Arsenal's finances will start to be secretive, as I do find them to be connected to his Rams' stadium venture (and any other venture of his in the future; who's saying he wont have another one?).

    That dishonest narrative depends on who you're talking to. Ask the St. Louis fanbase. While Kroenke says he wont leverage the Deutsche loans against Arsenal, I wouldn't be surprised if he double-crossed the Club and eventually did (for whatever reason). I find it humorous that the Rams' success has correlated with their move to LA and the push to build "disneyland the stadium". Makes it seem like he got superficially serious just so he could get the stadium.

    Glad to know a majority of his franchises are starting to have success. For the longest time they were at the bottom of the barrel. Good news for Arsenal.

    Don't get me wrong, I'd love for Arsenal to succeed. But I don't trust Kroenke, and he has a track record not to. When Vince McMahon calls you out, you know you're a cold-hearted prick.
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
  9. al-Ustaadh

    al-Ustaadh Professor of Twitter

    Again... this is a large market team. Not representative of the smaller market teams that make up the League.

    Edit: Also... anytime there's a dwindling in consumers for a particular business and its market, there's usually losses and not profits. Doesn't matter if Stan is dead and gone or if it takes 25 years... It's the slow decline and the negative business affect that that has over that time period.
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
  10. Kingslayer

    Kingslayer Forza Milan

    Raul = Fraud

    Never would've happened in the old regime. Just sayin.
  11. Mark Tobias

    Mark Tobias Mr. Agreeable

    I'm just sad he didn't accept the cage match to settle.
  12. Beksl

    Beksl Sell All The Youngsters

    Conned? :lol:

    They wanted 40m a daylight robbery ffs.
  13. Ceballinhos

    Ceballinhos Cheating on Santi

    Oh boy it's not even summer :lol:
  14. <<reed>>

    <<reed>> Meme Merchant

    Last summer we were hearing about 50m, ended up spending 70m+
    American_Gooner likes this.
  15. HBL

    HBL Well-Known Member

    And why would anyone believe what Crossy has to say?
    say yes likes this.
  16. Vinci

    Vinci The Sultan of Unai

    Cross is a true genius. He looked into his crystal ball and saw that we aren't going to make CL and the new commercial deals aren't all that, ergo summer budget is 40M.
  17. yousif_arsenal

    yousif_arsenal King of Twitter Rumours Moderator

    Wtf Cross on about only the TV deal and new Adidas deal will give us at least 100M to spend without sales.

    I'm considering to ban John Cross tweets.
  18. Kingslayer

    Kingslayer Forza Milan

    neimad, say yes, al-Ustaadh and 2 others like this.
  19. Ricardinho

    Ricardinho La Liga Correspondent

    Will be cause for concern if Orny comes out with similar.
    Sapient Hawk likes this.
  20. Beast Incarnate

    Beast Incarnate Well-Known Member

    Bloody hell, I hope that's not true. We need 100 mil at the very least.
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