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Oxeki

Match Day Thread Merchant
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Country: Nigeria

Player:Saliba
You can definitely improve it. Not all of them do, but you look at players like Sterling, Cristiano, Lampard etc. They were all bad at finishing until something clicked and then their numbers rocketed. I see some encouraging signs with ESR & Saka this season. In numbers terms our attack is awful but it feels like it's on the cusp of a big improvement. Maybe blind optimism but they are definitely starting to shoot more now
Sterling is still pretty much **** at finishing. He just gets a huge volume of chances nowadays, it's impossible for him to get at least 20 goals.

Stats actually shows he's one of the most wasteful players in the league.
 

GLITCH

Well-Known Member
Pass was definitely on.

Not only did he not play it but he dithered, let the defender close him down so he could only aim near post.
I'm a huge admirer of ESR, but I have to say there was more than enough time and space ahead of him to make the pass early without the keeper intercepting it. Those are the types of "risky" passes he has to attempt if he's going to be a top player.
 

Barry

Definitely Not An Old Poster
Sterling is still pretty much **** at finishing. He just gets a huge volume of chances nowadays, it's impossible for him to get at least 20 goals.

Stats actually shows he's one of the most wasteful players in the league.

This gets mentioned quite a lot. I'm a big fan of Sterling's, also interested in the shot volume stats because quite often you see players with high shot volumes and relatively low conversion rates who get plenty of goals.

It's quite a simplistic way of looking at it, but I wonder if the best players are upping their shot volume through their skill, movement and anticipation. To put it another way, it doesn't matter so much if they are wasteful if they are generating high shot volumes. If ESR and Saka can get to that place then we might see their numbers taking off.
 

samshere

Why so serieuse?
How many times have he seen him with miss high xG chances already this season. Needs to work on his finishing.
 

samshere

Why so serieuse?
You have to take into account the weather and the tiredness in the legs in that missed pass I think.
Only thing we have to take into account is his inexperience. He missed close to 2 years due to injuries, and is playing like a 19 year old. Should've released the ball in his first or second touch.
 

Barry

Definitely Not An Old Poster
Only thing we have to take into account is his inexperience. He missed close to 2 years due to injuries, and is playing like a 19 year old. Should've released the ball in his first or second touch.
Physically you can see he has developed a lot this season but he's still missing experience. Tavares & Lokonga both have more pro league experience than ESR for example. He's being carried by his talent which is massive and really exciting.
 

AbouCuéllar

Author of A-M essays 📚
This gets mentioned quite a lot. I'm a big fan of Sterling's, also interested in the shot volume stats because quite often you see players with high shot volumes and relatively low conversion rates who get plenty of goals.

It's quite a simplistic way of looking at it, but I wonder if the best players are upping their shot volume through their skill, movement and anticipation. To put it another way, it doesn't matter so much if they are wasteful if they are generating high shot volumes. If ESR and Saka can get to that place then we might see their numbers taking off.
You're spot on @Barry . Conversion rates always are lower with bigger samples of shots, even Ronaldo and Messi's.


When people talk about people like Sterling being 'wasteful' they are missing a bit the point. The more important skill is getting into those positions through as you say their skill, movement, and anticipations. Messi, Ronaldo, Lewandowski, all the great goal scorers of the history, are not that because they have significantly better conversion rates with the rest...they combine upper level conversion rates--without being statistically that significant the difference--with being most of all very good at getting into interesting shooting positions with their ability.

So yeah, Sterling doesn't have the higher range conversion rate nor has he ever nor will he ever, but it's really the most uninteresting and insignificant part of the question of rather a player is good or not. And especially high conversion rates, outside of the range of normal levels which not even Messi, Ronaldo, or Lewndowski get to, tend to actually suggest players who are worse than the stats suggest they are and are getting a bit lucky of fluky (like Willock in his goal scoring run with Newcastle last season).
 

Riou

In The Winchester, Waiting For This To Blow Over

Country: Northern Ireland

Player:Gabriel
Jokes aside... when's the last time one of our players played really well in an away league match, when it's been raining?

Feel like everytime I see bad weather, I expect us not to win :lol:
 

Barry

Definitely Not An Old Poster
You're spot on @Barry . Conversion rates always are lower with bigger samples of shots, even Ronaldo and Messi's.


When people talk about people like Sterling being 'wasteful' they are missing a bit the point. The more important skill is getting into those positions through as you say their skill, movement, and anticipations. Messi, Ronaldo, Lewandowski, all the great goal scorers of the history, are not that because they have significantly better conversion rates with the rest...they combine upper level conversion rates--without being statistically that significant the difference--with being most of all very good at getting into interesting shooting positions with their ability.

So yeah, Sterling doesn't have the higher range conversion rate nor has he ever nor will he ever, but it's really the most uninteresting and insignificant part of the question of rather a player is good or not. And especially high conversion rates, outside of the range of normal levels which not even Messi, Ronaldo, or Lewndowski get to, tend to actually suggest players who are worse than the stats suggest they are and are getting a bit lucky of fluky (like Willock in his goal scoring run with Newcastle last season).
Really interesting, cheers. This is something I've mused about in the past without really being informed on it. Not to rule out the impact that creativity has on creating chances either, but it seems that the best players can find those chances a little easier as well.
 

Barry

Definitely Not An Old Poster
Jokes aside... when's the last time one of our players played really well in an away league match, when it's been raining?

Feel like everytime I see bad weather, I expect us not to win :lol:
Was it the FA Cup where Tierney scored that immense goal in the snow last year? That was probably my favourite goal of last season, he was absolutely loving it as well.
 

Macho

In search of Pure Profit 💸
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Was it the FA Cup where Tierney scored that immense goal in the snow last year? That was probably my favourite goal of last season, he was absolutely loving it as well.
West Brom in the league I believe, they got battered still.

opoyi_CJ-KxIjFW-.jpg


Absolute scenes I will never forget tbh, pretty sure the snow buffed all of Tierney's stats that day.
 

Barry

Definitely Not An Old Poster
West Brom in the league I believe, they got battered still.

opoyi_CJ-KxIjFW-.jpg


Absolute scenes I will never forget tbh, pretty sure the snow buffed all of Tierney's stats that day.
It was probably partly because of the drama of the snow, but he was so pumped up for that match, was on turbo drive and the goal looked so classy with the snow coming down around him.
 

Rex Stone

Long live the fighters
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Country: Wales
West Brom in the league I believe, they got battered still.

opoyi_CJ-KxIjFW-.jpg


Absolute scenes I will never forget tbh, pretty sure the snow buffed all of Tierney's stats that day.

When you think of the GOAT performances I don’t think of Ronaldinho at Stamford Bridge, Ronaldo at OT or Bale against Inter Milan.

For me it’s the time Holding had to hold back Tierney after scoring against Allardyce in the snow. Hair on the back of the neck vibes.
 

Riou

In The Winchester, Waiting For This To Blow Over

Country: Northern Ireland

Player:Gabriel
Didn't Fat Sam say we were in a relegation battle with West Brom, before we smashed them in that game?

Good stuff.
 
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