Emile Smith-Rowe (Loan)

[al-Ustaadh]

Wenger invented the Carabao trick , man was truly a trail blazer.

 

[BobP]

Thought this might be interesting to some of you.

The tranfermarkt PL insider on Smith-Rowe:

Smith Rowe is one of five youngsters who don't necessarily see their future with the Gunners. Leipzig has been monitoring him for one and a half years. RB was one of multiple Bundesliga loan options for him, but also the one club among them that could pay the asking price in case of a fix transfer. Leipzig are also closely watching Xavier Amaechi.

Asked why they don't see their future only at Arsenal:

Minimal chances for consistent game time. The trick of satisfying youngsters by playing them in early League Cup ties or against third rate opposition in the Europa League doesn't work anymore on the more ambitious among them, who have seen colleagues like Sancho, who would have faced a smiliar fate had he stayed in England, take an exceptional development in the Bundesliga.

The so called middle way of loaning them to a Championship club doesn't work out as easily anymore, too, because there a group of clubs has formed that primarily wants to get promoted, so young loan players from whose development and increase of value they don't profit don't fit their recruiting system anymore.

Furthermore those youngsters are very well connected today. On one hand they know each other personally from years of training together in several youth selections and on the other hand they are connected via a network of agents and middle men, who in recent years have worked to make the way to Germany easier.


On the guys credibility: Pretty high. I recently went back and looked for clues to what he actually does, and like I suspected, he/she works for a sports/football marketing and law consultation company in London. He's been dodgy calling specific transfers as he probably goes on hearsay from within the industry with those, but regarding general machinations and workings of the industry, how transfers are negotiated and done, how clauses actually play out and such, how different clubs/people generally operate, their current reputation and overall strategies, as well as insights regarding agents and general deals - he's pretty credible and insightful on those.

So if he says player X will transfer to club Y, I would take that with a proper grain of salt. But if he's saying there's a general dissatisfaction of younger players all around England because of a lack of playing time and these players themselves as well as their network of agents is working on options to get them off the island - I'd rate that as pretty credible.

Not entirely sure about the veracity of these claims.

1. If someone like ESR is privy to the Carabao or Europa League 'trick', then why sign a long term contract, which ties you to the club for the foreseeable future, just last year? The same could be said of Nelson who signed a 5 year contract before heading out on loan.

2. Say what you want about your Chelsea's or your Man City's but you can't accuse Arsenal of not giving opportunities to academy players. The only academy player I can think of who left for fresher pastures before establishing themselves in the 1st team is Gnabry, and even that had more to do with untimely injuries and the sanctioning of the stupidest loan known to man.

 

[BobP]

Our strategy vis-a-vis the loaning of players seems to have improved.

Spending a season or two in the Bundesliga will do these players a world of good and have them ready to compete for 1st team spots when they return. That's as opposed to bouncing from lower league club to lower league club, or conversely playing dead rubber cup games.

I see no reason why Nelson won't be in the mix once he gets back.

 

[Beksl]

Thought this might be interesting to some of you.

The tranfermarkt PL insider on Smith-Rowe:

Smith Rowe is one of five youngsters who don't necessarily see their future with the Gunners. Leipzig has been monitoring him for one and a half years. RB was one of multiple Bundesliga loan options for him, but also the one club among them that could pay the asking price in case of a fix transfer. Leipzig are also closely watching Xavier Amaechi.

Asked why they don't see their future only at Arsenal:

Minimal chances for consistent game time. The trick of satisfying youngsters by playing them in early League Cup ties or against third rate opposition in the Europa League doesn't work anymore on the more ambitious among them, who have seen colleagues like Sancho, who would have faced a smiliar fate had he stayed in England, take an exceptional development in the Bundesliga.

The so called middle way of loaning them to a Championship club doesn't work out as easily anymore, too, because there a group of clubs has formed that primarily wants to get promoted, so young loan players from whose development and increase of value they don't profit don't fit their recruiting system anymore.

Furthermore those youngsters are very well connected today. On one hand they know each other personally from years of training together in several youth selections and on the other hand they are connected via a network of agents and middle men, who in recent years have worked to make the way to Germany easier.


On the guys credibility: Pretty high. I recently went back and looked for clues to what he actually does, and like I suspected, he/she works for a sports/football marketing and law consultation company in London. He's been dodgy calling specific transfers as he probably goes on hearsay from within the industry with those, but regarding general machinations and workings of the industry, how transfers are negotiated and done, how clauses actually play out and such, how different clubs/people generally operate, their current reputation and overall strategies, as well as insights regarding agents and general deals - he's pretty credible and insightful on those.

So if he says player X will transfer to club Y, I would take that with a proper grain of salt. But if he's saying there's a general dissatisfaction of younger players all around England because of a lack of playing time and these players themselves as well as their network of agents is working on options to get them off the island - I'd rate that as pretty credible.

This is pure speculation on his/her part based on some facts and half truths that are not necessarily connected. It could be true for some other clubs like Chelsea or City but not Arsenal IMO. ESR stated many times he's goal is to succeed here, he signed a longterm contract not so long ago as a testament to this.

We're giving ample opportunities to academy players and considering Emery is not afraid to play the likes of Geundouzi on a regular basis I'd say Arsenal seems like a great place for a youngster.

Maybe we'll see more longterm loans to Bundesliga and other top leagues in the future but I doubt we'll see max exodus of academy players seeking greener pastures.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Players like Nelson and Smith-Rowe should be foundation of future Arsenal.

The trouble is that it's difficult to compete for the top 4, much less titles, with such young players and by the time they're developed and ready for that they've long ago decided to move on. City lost Sancho (and others) because they simply could not offer them playing time. If Arsenal is to truly be competitive, that needs to be the case for them as well. You can't depend that heavily on such young players, no matter the talent level. Mbappes are very rare (and even he has his drawbacks from lack of experience).

 

[Toby]

This is pure speculation on his/her part based on some facts and half truths that are not necessarily connected. It could be true for some other clubs like Chelsea or City but not Arsenal IMO. ESR stated many times he's goal is to succeed here, he signed a longterm contract not so long ago as a testament to this.

I sincerely doubt it's pure speculation. That guy is working in the wider football industry and definitely knows stuff. He's been around for years on transfermarkt, his "insights" aren't reduced to one club and I have a pretty good idea on which topics he's got something and on which he's fishing in the dark. He's rather reclusive about personal info and doesn't run around with his inside tibits. Regarding the topics he's involved with due to his line of work, he's more trustworthy than any Twitter idiot.

Players say a lot when the day is long. How many have stated they wanted to stay their career at a club, or wanted to succeed at a club and a week later they're gone?

The info also fits in with other intel he had on Nelson and generally youth player agent networks.

Young players get a fair bit more chances at Arsenal than at say Chelsea, but it's the same pattern of early Cup ties and against ****e opposition in the EL and I think the impression you have of that is slightly warped:
Smith Rowe has 6 games for the first team, Nketiah 5, Willock 3 - Nketiah being the only one with a start in the league. Every other start came in the Carabao Cup or the EL group stage. I wouldn't say that's exactly ample opportunity. Emery doesn't even put them on the bench in league games but just puts 5 defensive veterans on there.

This is from last season:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...elsea-failed-play-single-teenager-season.html

Loans also only go so far. BL clubs will be okay with loaning and developing players for half a season or a whole season, but young players mostly need more than just one season to really break into a first team, and the benefit of loaning and developing players for two season but being basically denied to reap the benefits of developing him are marginal. Any club would rather go out and buy their own talent and benefit financially, too, than just take on longterm loans from big clubs. In that regard I highly doubt there's a option to loan longer for ESR - either he's coming back or leaving for good in the summer.

There are definitely rumblings among english talent regarding consistent playing time at a high level and against good opposition under the impression of what Sancho and to a degree Nelson have done in the Bundesliga. The other link by @krengon just reinforces that further. As things stand there's no reason why Arsenal should be extempt from this development, as yes, they give more chances to youngsters than some other big clubs, but it's still not enough game time.

That's a guardian article on the whole problem:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/sep/05/english-premier-league-gareth-southgate

 

[<<reed>>]

What's wrong with playing in the EL and the Haribo Cup when you are 17-19? Young players thinking they are the next Sancho are like Henry/Neville thinking they are the next Guardiola.

 

[MutableEarth]

I sincerely doubt it's pure speculation. That guy is working in the wider football industry and definitely knows stuff. He's been around for years on transfermarkt, his "insights" aren't reduced to one club and I have a pretty good idea on which topics he's got something and on which he's fishing in the dark. He's rather reclusive about personal info and doesn't run around with his inside tibits. Regarding the topics he's involved with due to his line of work, he's more trustworthy than any Twitter idiot.

Players say a lot when the day is long. How many have stated they wanted to stay their career at a club, or wanted to succeed at a club and a week later they're gone?

The info also fits in with other intel he had on Nelson and generally youth player agent networks.

Young players get a fair bit more chances at Arsenal than at say Chelsea, but it's the same pattern of early Cup ties and against ****e opposition in the EL and I think the impression you have of that is slightly warped:
Smith Rowe has 6 games for the first team, Nketiah 5, Willock 3 - Nketiah being the only one with a start in the league. Every other start came in the Carabao Cup or the EL group stage. I wouldn't say that's exactly ample opportunity. Emery doesn't even put them on the bench in league games but just puts 5 defensive veterans on there.

This is from last season:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...elsea-failed-play-single-teenager-season.html

Loans also only go so far. BL clubs will be okay with loaning and developing players for half a season or a whole season, but young players mostly need more than just one season to really break into a first team, and the benefit of loaning and developing players for two season but being basically denied to reap the benefits of developing him are marginal. Any club would rather go out and buy their own talent and benefit financially, too, than just take on longterm loans from big clubs. In that regard I highly doubt there's a option to loan longer for ESR - either he's coming back or leaving for good in the summer.

There are definitely rumblings among english talent regarding consistent playing time at a high level and against good opposition under the impression of what Sancho and to a degree Nelson have done in the Bundesliga. The other link by @krengon just reinforces that further. As things stand there's no reason why Arsenal should be extempt from this development, as yes, they give more chances to youngsters than some other big clubs, but it's still not enough game time.

That's a guardian article on the whole problem:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/sep/05/english-premier-league-gareth-southgate

With the EL and CC, there's a finite amount of games they get to play as they are dropped for the later stages and not trusted. There has to be a sterner test, rather than waiting every season for 4 games worth of game time. It is not enough and the penny is beginning to drop, especially with this generation - aware of their talent level.

We cannot lose out on their brilliance. That would be a catastrophe IMO and we would end up costing ourselves many millions while others reap the benefits of Hale End.

 

[Yousif Arsenal]

The german window has been closed strange they didnt announce the deal yet

 

[NieThePiet]

The german window has been closed strange they didnt announce the deal yet

Bild says, that the deal was done it time and will be announced shortly.

 

[luigicalzone]

Bild says it's done. Loan withoug option to buy.

 

[Beksl]

I sincerely doubt it's pure speculation. That guy is working in the wider football industry and definitely knows stuff. He's been around for years on transfermarkt, his "insights" aren't reduced to one club and I have a pretty good idea on which topics he's got something and on which he's fishing in the dark. He's rather reclusive about personal info and doesn't run around with his inside tibits. Regarding the topics he's involved with due to his line of work, he's more trustworthy than any Twitter idiot.

Players say a lot when the day is long. How many have stated they wanted to stay their career at a club, or wanted to succeed at a club and a week later they're gone?

The info also fits in with other intel he had on Nelson and generally youth player agent networks.

Young players get a fair bit more chances at Arsenal than at say Chelsea, but it's the same pattern of early Cup ties and against ****e opposition in the EL and I think the impression you have of that is slightly warped:
Smith Rowe has 6 games for the first team, Nketiah 5, Willock 3 - Nketiah being the only one with a start in the league. Every other start came in the Carabao Cup or the EL group stage. I wouldn't say that's exactly ample opportunity.

This is from last season:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...elsea-failed-play-single-teenager-season.html

There are definitely rumblings among english talent regarding consistent playing time at a high level and against good opposition under the impression of what Sancho and to a degree Nelson have done in the Bundesliga. The other link by @krengon just reinforces that further. As things stand there's no reason why Arsenal should be extempt from this development, as yes, they give more chances to youngsters than some other big clubs, but it's still not enough game time.

That's a guardian article on the whole problem:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/sep/05/english-premier-league-gareth-southgate

Do young players (especially foreigners) get more chances at Bundesliga clubs or is these just a myth enhanced by recent success of Sancho?

At a quick glance average age of squads in Bundesliga is 25,2 which is significantly lower than for PL (27,2) which could indicate youngster get more chances.

I looked at some clubs and how much their starlets (20 and bellow as we're talking about the likes of ERS, Sancho and Nelson) are playing in the league as the narrative is playing in the cups is not enough.

I looked at Leipzeig and they have some young talents the likes of Upamecano, Konate and Cunha who played quite a bit (14/19, 15/19 and 13/19 games in the league). They're a club with the lowest average age (23,6) and are clearly implementing a model of buying and developing young talents and selling them for big fees.

At Schalke, for example, only one player played significant minutes this season, Weston McKennie (14/19 in the league on average 62 minutes).

At Stuttgart there are Gonzalez and Kabak with serious minutes.

Leverkusen paid big money for Paulinho but he played 84 minutes in the league so far and only got serious game time in EuropLeague. On the other hand Kai Hravetz is an integral part of their team but he's considered as one of the biggest talents in Germany.

I only did a quick check on transfermarkt and it seems German clubs are more open to the idea of giving youngsters more minutes. There are plenty of players that get minutes only in the cups thou.

I didn't get an impression Bundesliga is this promised land for youngsters although it does seem you have more chances for a breakthroug than in the PL. Most often than not they give their starlets chance to prove themseves in the cups just like in the PL but not many of them are 20 or younger.

I only looked at current season and not all Clubs mind you.

 

[Yousif Arsenal]

Confirmed good luck ESR!

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

Do young players (especially foreigners) get more chances at Bundesliga clubs or is these just a myth enhanced by recent success of Sancho?

At a quick glance average age of squads in Bundesliga is 25,2 which is significantly lower than for PL (27,2) which could indicate youngster get more chances.

I looked at some clubs and how much their starlets (20 and bellow as we're talking about the likes of ERS, Sancho and Nelson) are playing in the league as the narrative is playing in the cups is not enough.

I looked at Leipzeig and they have some young talents the likes of Upamecano, Konate and Cunha who played quite a bit (14/19, 15/19 and 13/19 games in the league). They're a club with the lowest average age (23,6) and are clearly implementing a model of buying and developing young talents and selling them for big fees.

At Schalke, for example, only one player played significant minutes this season, Weston McKennie (14/19 in the league on average 62 minutes).

At Stuttgart there are Gonzalez and Kabak with serious minutes.

Leverkusen paid big money for Paulinho but he played 84 minutes in the league so far and only got serious game time in EuropLeague. On the other hand Kai Hravetz is an integral part of their team but he's considered as one of the biggest talents in Germany.

I only did a quick check on transfermarkt and it seems German clubs are more open to the idea of giving youngsters more minutes. There are plenty of players that get minutes only in the cups thou.

I didn't get an impression Bundesliga is this promised land for youngsters although it does seem you have more chances for a breakthroug than in the PL. Most often than not they give their starlets chance to prove themseves in the cups just like in the PL but not many of them are 20 or younger.

I only looked at current season and not all Clubs mind you.

Couldn't find numbers for last year but here is a old post from me in the football section under some thread. Its for 2016/17 season so maybe it has changed for better or worse. I don't know.

According to opta youth players get least chances in premier league. Youth players get most chances in France, no surprise.
Total league appearances by teenagers so far in 2016/17:
Ligue 1 - 546
Serie A - 284
Bundesliga - 284
La Liga - 271
Premier League - 130

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

Smith-Rowe is my favorite player! Hope we have a plan for him here next season! He is brilliant modern player in making!

 

[Rex Stone]

Grab the bull by the horns ESR

 

[Yousif Arsenal]

Smith-Rowe is my favorite player! Hope we have a plan for him here next season! He is brilliant modern player in making!

If he preform well his place should secured in starting 11 for next season. Same as Nelson.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

If he preform well his place should secured in starting 11 for next season. Same as Nelson.

Not sure about starting XI, but they should be trusted more if they perform well. I think given their talent it is probably around 40 M worth in them, it is a players we can use in next years and I hope Emery acknowledge this and spend more money on the defense instead!

 

[dashsnow17]

His surname isn't hyphenated? Or does he just go by his middle and last names?

 

[Slartibartfast]

Do young players (especially foreigners) get more chances at Bundesliga clubs or is these just a myth enhanced by recent success of Sancho?

At a quick glance average age of squads in Bundesliga is 25,2 which is significantly lower than for PL (27,2) which could indicate youngster get more chances.

I think it's absolutely the case that Bundesliga clubs are more willing to give young players an opportunity in their important competitions. Just off the top of my head, Leipzig just bought Tyler Adams (19) from Red Bull New York and threw him into the starting lineup the other day (he responded with a Man of the Match performance). Alphonso Davies (18, barely) debuted for Bayern the other day. Josh Sargent (18) debuted for Werder Bremen in December and has two goals in five games. Reiss Nelson, of course. McKennie and Pulisic are just 20 and Bundesliga veterans by now. Kai Havertz is just 19, has played something more than 70 times for Leverkusen and is one of the top midfield playmakers in the league.