England: Need The Midas Tuch?

[Blood on the Tracks]

I’m just not sure I agree with this. We’re massively overstating the effect of a mediocre playing career. Mourinho started his learning journey as Robsons interpreter, weren’t nothing to do with his dismal playing career.

What I’m getting at is this. There’s plenty of entry level roles in football that women can and should be doing which could then possibly act a springboard to greater things down the line. But without change at these entry levels we will never see change at the top. Being a football manager requires absolutely no inherent physical attributes which would prima facie favour a man over a woman. All you’ve done is given me a list of barriers to entry to women (needing to play men’s football…) which is basically proving the point that the entire set up is unnecessarily discriminatory.

Then again I remember guys like you choking on your dentures when we first started seeing female physios let alone that poor female linesman so it’s all good.

Exactly, this is my point. You don't have to be a good footballer to be a good manager. But Jose Mourinho was sat under the learning tree of a legendary manager like Bobby Robson when a translator for him Barca, he was ingrained in very high level mens football from an early age.

Who was Wiegman or whoever working with and studying under at 25 or whatever? I guarantee it wasn't a manager the calibre of Robson or anything close to the environment Mourinho was in at Barca.

My basic point is yeah, maybe in a decade or two we'll get a couple of the highest performing female managers in the mens game and they might do great.

But mens football exists and women's football exists and as far as I'm concerned the managerial aspect should largely follow suit. Tbh I think there are probably far too many average male managers in the women's game, probably acting as barriers to the growth of decent young female coaches / managers.

There comes a point to me where this debate just becomes about dogmatic equality.

Like when you watch women's football it's generally coached poorly and to far lesser standard than the equivalent level in mens football. I'm not going to pretend it's good out of blind ideology.

 

[db10_therza]

Exactly, this is my point. You don't have to be a good footballer to be a good manager. But Jose Mourinho was sat under the learning tree of a legendary manager like Bobby Robson when a translator for him Barca, he was ingrained in very high level mens football from an early age.

Who was Wiegman or whoever working with and studying under at 25 or whatever? I guarantee it wasn't a manager the calibre of Robson or anything close to the environment Mourinho was in at Barca.

My basic point is yeah, maybe in a decade or two we'll get a couple of the highest performing female managers in the mens game and they might do great.

But mens football exists and women's football exists and as far as I'm concerned the managerial aspect should largely follow suit. Tbh I think there are probably far too many average male managers in the women's game, probably acting as barriers to the growth of decent young female coaches / managers.

There comes a point to me where this debate just becomes about dogmatic equality.

Like when you watch women's football it's generally coached poorly and to far lesser standard than the equivalent level in mens football. I'm not going to pretend it's good out of blind ideology.

In this case we’re actually (sort of) in agreement. Lifting women from the wsl or whatever into the men’s game isn’t gonna end well, but at the same time more work needs to be done to hire more female staff at entry roles within the men’s game so that they have the opportunity to grow within it.

I say this btw as the father of a baby girl who I would never allow within 100 feet of any footballer they are (largely) fking animals.

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

In this case we’re actually (sort of) in agreement. Lifting women from the wsl or whatever into the men’s game isn’t gonna end well, but at the same time more work needs to be done to hire more female staff at entry roles within the men’s game so that they have the opportunity to grow within it.

I say this btw as the father of a baby girl who I would never allow within 100 feet of any footballer they are (largely) fking animals.

Yeah, if you put a 20 year old woman who has a high natural aptitude for the game on the staff of Pep, Klopp or even Arteta I see no reason why they couldn't be as good a manager as the equivalent male in 15 years time.

It's not that I think there's something genetically weaker about women when it comes to understanding football

 

[Paperino]

What kind of football do Lee Carsley promote?

 

[db10_therza]

It's not that I think there's something genetically weaker about women when it comes to understanding football

Does your missus understand the offside rule then?

 

[Paperino]

Does your missus understand the offside rule then?

He is living in celibacy because of principles as per @A_G.

 

[SuperGoon]

Stevie G please. PLEASE.

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

Does your missus understand the offside rule then?

Nah, not really. She's improved though.

Up until her late 20's she legit thought an offside was when the ball went out of play

 

[Dokaka]

Nah, not really. She's improved though.

Up until her late 20's she legit thought an offside was when the ball went out of play

Not a bad take tbf, that is what the word implies when you think about it

 

[BaZZe]

It would be interesting to know if any women managers have ever tried to get an interview in the mens game let alone be interviewed. I am 100% certain Emma Hayes would make better decisions than Rooney and he has been considered for premier league jobs.

Football’s pioneers: women who have managed men’s teams in Europe

Before Hannah Dingley was appointed at Forest Green, Helena Costa, Corinne Diacre and Carolina Morace led the way

www.theguardian.com

 

[Batman]

I hope we sign a proper manager. @Trilly really took the Southgate years hard.

 

[GoonerJeeves]

Like when you watch women's football it's generally coached poorly and to far lesser standard than the equivalent level in mens football. I'm not going to pretend it's good out of blind ideology.

My apologies for this *snip* but I think this particular thing will change rapidly as more money is coming into the women's game.

 

[<<reed>>]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1813565692450365620

Poch is quality
You won't find a better time to pick a new England manager really, lots of solid choices rn

 

[Bloodbather]

Then explain Roberto Martinez who’s coached Belgium and Portugal then?

Yeah I’m just not into the nationalism aspect of international football at all. Think it’s out dated so I’m actually not fussed one bit who the hell manages England as they still won’t win sh*t anyways.

Club football is superior because the best person normally gets the job which is how sports should be.

That's just one exception among dozens of examples to the contrary. Martinez hasn't exactly been successful, either. He's also Spanish, which is as close as it gets to hiring a Portuguese manager. In this Euros, 6 out of the 8 teams in the Quarters had a domestic coach. Let's check the winners of the last few major international tournaments and look at their coaches:

Euro 2024 - Spain - Luis de la Fuente (Spanish)
WC 2022 - Argentina - Lionel Scaloni (Argentinian)
Euro 2020 - Italy - Roberto Mancini (Italian)
WC 2018 - France - Didier Deschamps (French)
Euro 2016 - Portugal - Fernando Santos (Portuguese)
WC 2014 - Germany - Joachim Löw (German)
Euro 2012 - Spain - Vicente del Bosque (Spanish)
WC 2010 - Spain - Vicente del Bosque (Spanish)
Euro 2008 - Spain - Luis Aragones (Spanish)
WC 2006 - Italy - Marcello Lippi (Italian)
Euro 2004 - Greece - Otto Rehhagel (German)

You have to all the way back to Euro 2004, which was a mid-tier country scoring the biggest upset title ever with a foreign coach. Before that one, it never happened at the World Cup or the Euros. Not once.

It's not about "nationalism". A person from the country will always have an advantage because there will be no language barrier or cultural adjustment. That matters everywhere, but it especially matters for national teams who don't train the whole season together.

 

[outlawz]

Foreigners managing the NT is indeed rare. People wanting a top manager for England will be in for a shock surprise when the next appointment is another manager with few credentials. Then they'll spend the next four years complaining that said manager can't deliver club football like results. You can bookmark this.

 

[Paperino]

Lee Carsley appointed as England men's interim head coach

The England MU21s head coach will take on Three Lions role for September's Nations League fixtures

www.englandfootball.com

Pretty sure he will get the job on a permanent basis the second he win a game just like Southgate.

 

[Mitch]

ESR will be back in the England squad before the season is over. Better than Eze.

 

[blaze_of_glory]

Selling ESR might end up being very regrettable

 

[Riou]

All Carsley needs to do now is recruit his old friend Gravesen to the coaching staff and then this perfect duo will basically be managing England...

 

[GoonerJeeves]

All Carsley needs to do now is recruit his old friend Gravesen to the coaching staff and then this perfect duo will basically be managing England...

Carsball can't be less exciting than what Southgate served up. England U21s actually played some good stuff.