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England: Need The Midas Tuch?

Blood on the Tracks

Michael Owen Level Analysis

Country: England

Player:Rice
I’m just not sure I agree with this. We’re massively overstating the effect of a mediocre playing career. Mourinho started his learning journey as Robsons interpreter, weren’t nothing to do with his dismal playing career.

What I’m getting at is this. There’s plenty of entry level roles in football that women can and should be doing which could then possibly act a springboard to greater things down the line. But without change at these entry levels we will never see change at the top. Being a football manager requires absolutely no inherent physical attributes which would prima facie favour a man over a woman. All you’ve done is given me a list of barriers to entry to women (needing to play men’s football…) which is basically proving the point that the entire set up is unnecessarily discriminatory.

Then again I remember guys like you choking on your dentures when we first started seeing female physios let alone that poor female linesman so it’s all good.

Exactly, this is my point. You don't have to be a good footballer to be a good manager. But Jose Mourinho was sat under the learning tree of a legendary manager like Bobby Robson when a translator for him Barca, he was ingrained in very high level mens football from an early age.

Who was Wiegman or whoever working with and studying under at 25 or whatever? I guarantee it wasn't a manager the calibre of Robson or anything close to the environment Mourinho was in at Barca.

My basic point is yeah, maybe in a decade or two we'll get a couple of the highest performing female managers in the mens game and they might do great.

But mens football exists and women's football exists and as far as I'm concerned the managerial aspect should largely follow suit. Tbh I think there are probably far too many average male managers in the women's game, probably acting as barriers to the growth of decent young female coaches / managers.

There comes a point to me where this debate just becomes about dogmatic equality.

Like when you watch women's football it's generally coached poorly and to far lesser standard than the equivalent level in mens football. I'm not going to pretend it's good out of blind ideology.
 

db10_therza

Senior Spreadsheet Squad Secretary
Moderator

Country: Bangladesh

Player:White
Exactly, this is my point. You don't have to be a good footballer to be a good manager. But Jose Mourinho was sat under the learning tree of a legendary manager like Bobby Robson when a translator for him Barca, he was ingrained in very high level mens football from an early age.

Who was Wiegman or whoever working with and studying under at 25 or whatever? I guarantee it wasn't a manager the calibre of Robson or anything close to the environment Mourinho was in at Barca.

My basic point is yeah, maybe in a decade or two we'll get a couple of the highest performing female managers in the mens game and they might do great.

But mens football exists and women's football exists and as far as I'm concerned the managerial aspect should largely follow suit. Tbh I think there are probably far too many average male managers in the women's game, probably acting as barriers to the growth of decent young female coaches / managers.

There comes a point to me where this debate just becomes about dogmatic equality.

Like when you watch women's football it's generally coached poorly and to far lesser standard than the equivalent level in mens football. I'm not going to pretend it's good out of blind ideology.

In this case we’re actually (sort of) in agreement. Lifting women from the wsl or whatever into the men’s game isn’t gonna end well, but at the same time more work needs to be done to hire more female staff at entry roles within the men’s game so that they have the opportunity to grow within it.

I say this btw as the father of a baby girl who I would never allow within 100 feet of any footballer they are (largely) fking animals.
 

Blood on the Tracks

Michael Owen Level Analysis

Country: England

Player:Rice
In this case we’re actually (sort of) in agreement. Lifting women from the wsl or whatever into the men’s game isn’t gonna end well, but at the same time more work needs to be done to hire more female staff at entry roles within the men’s game so that they have the opportunity to grow within it.

I say this btw as the father of a baby girl who I would never allow within 100 feet of any footballer they are (largely) fking animals.

Yeah, if you put a 20 year old woman who has a high natural aptitude for the game on the staff of Pep, Klopp or even Arteta I see no reason why they couldn't be as good a manager as the equivalent male in 15 years time.

It's not that I think there's something genetically weaker about women when it comes to understanding football 🤣
 

SuperGoon

Lost A Bet And Now He’s A Top G

Country: Ireland

Player:Saka
GSmudUjWYAAdffQ
Stevie G please. PLEASE.
 

BaZZe

Always Blaming Refs

Country: Sweden

Bloodbather

Established Member

Country: Turkiye
Then explain Roberto Martinez who’s coached Belgium and Portugal then?

Yeah I’m just not into the nationalism aspect of international football at all. Think it’s out dated so I’m actually not fussed one bit who the hell manages England as they still won’t win sh*t anyways.

Club football is superior because the best person normally gets the job which is how sports should be.
That's just one exception among dozens of examples to the contrary. Martinez hasn't exactly been successful, either. He's also Spanish, which is as close as it gets to hiring a Portuguese manager. In this Euros, 6 out of the 8 teams in the Quarters had a domestic coach. Let's check the winners of the last few major international tournaments and look at their coaches:

Euro 2024 - Spain - Luis de la Fuente (Spanish)
WC 2022 - Argentina - Lionel Scaloni (Argentinian)
Euro 2020 - Italy - Roberto Mancini (Italian)
WC 2018 - France - Didier Deschamps (French)
Euro 2016 - Portugal - Fernando Santos (Portuguese)
WC 2014 - Germany - Joachim Löw (German)
Euro 2012 - Spain - Vicente del Bosque (Spanish)
WC 2010 - Spain - Vicente del Bosque (Spanish)
Euro 2008 - Spain - Luis Aragones (Spanish)
WC 2006 - Italy - Marcello Lippi (Italian)
Euro 2004 - Greece - Otto Rehhagel (German)

You have to all the way back to Euro 2004, which was a mid-tier country scoring the biggest upset title ever with a foreign coach. Before that one, it never happened at the World Cup or the Euros. Not once.

It's not about "nationalism". A person from the country will always have an advantage because there will be no language barrier or cultural adjustment. That matters everywhere, but it especially matters for national teams who don't train the whole season together.
 
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outlawz

Southgate's waistcoat knitter
Foreigners managing the NT is indeed rare. People wanting a top manager for England will be in for a shock surprise when the next appointment is another manager with few credentials. Then they'll spend the next four years complaining that said manager can't deliver club football like results. You can bookmark this.
 

Riou

🎵 Riouce Riouce Baby 🎶

Country: Northern Ireland
All Carsley needs to do now is recruit his old friend Gravesen to the coaching staff and then this perfect duo will basically be managing England...

857

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