Ethan Nwaneri: New Nwan-era?

[TakeChillPill]

Sorry, but every great manager has integrated youth in total he starting 11. Guardiola did it with Pedro, busquets, alba. Now he's doing it with youngsters such as Bobb, same with foden.

Wenger did it during our pomp with cole, toure, cesc.

Fergie obviously with the golden generation.

Arteta needs to stop ****ting himself and actually in 4 years he hasn't bought in 1 youth player.

I really hope we see plenty of Nwaneri.

 

[Rasmi]

Would Wenger have handed him a full PL debut in the NLD considering our injury/suspension issues in Midfield?

Maybe not away from him I suppose.

Wenger loved a technician more than anything. He was a football purest. He would have absolutely used him already

 

[berric]

Wenger loved a technician more than anything. He was a football purest. He would have absolutely used him already

Ode - Nwaneri with Rice at the base would ball so much for papa Wengz. Shades of Cesc-Wilsh-Song.

 

[lomekian]

Sorry, but every great manager has integrated youth in total he starting 11. Guardiola did it with Pedro, busquets, alba. Now he's doing it with youngsters such as Bobb, same with foden.

Wenger did it during our pomp with cole, toure, cesc.

Fergie obviously with the golden generation.

Arteta needs to stop ****ting himself and actually in 4 years he hasn't bought in 1 youth player.

I really hope we see plenty of Nwaneri.

20 year old are not the same as 16/17 year olds. If Nwaneri and MLS are still picking splinters out in 2-3 years time, you'll have a point

 

[Melquiades]

Sorry, but every great manager has integrated youth in total he starting 11. Guardiola did it with Pedro, busquets, alba. Now he's doing it with youngsters such as Bobb, same with foden.

Wenger did it during our pomp with cole, toure, cesc.

Fergie obviously with the golden generation.

Arteta needs to stop ****ting himself and actually in 4 years he hasn't bought in 1 youth player.

I really hope we see plenty of Nwaneri.

The whole Saka/ESR/Eddie/Nelson/Martinelli generation got a tiny bit of action under Emery but Arteta is the manager that basically developed them as squad regulars. He also brought Saliba into the squad, albeit probably a year late and not technically a youth player.

Problem is that the generation of players for the last 5 years just ... hasn't been very good. The big gems have been guys like Patino and Azeez and people complained to high heaven about them not getting minutes ... but when it shakes out for them at age 20-21 it's pretty obvious why they weren't getting minutes. If you're playing in the Spanish 2nd Division or the Greek 2nd Division at age 21 you sure as hell weren't good enough to be playing for Arsenal when you were 18.

This next generation with Nwaneri/MLS seems a level up from that and we'll see how they're handled.

 

[Big Poppa]

Sorry, but every great manager has integrated youth in total he starting 11. Guardiola did it with Pedro, busquets, alba. Now he's doing it with youngsters such as Bobb, same with foden.

Wenger did it during our pomp with cole, toure, cesc.

Fergie obviously with the golden generation.

Arteta needs to stop ****ting himself and actually in 4 years he hasn't bought in 1 youth player.

I really hope we see plenty of Nwaneri.

I've come to accept that Arteta doesn't see promoting academy players as his responsibility. It's not a view I agree with but I understand it. If Per or Jack suddenly became Arsenal manager it would be different, because they'd be willing to accept mistakes from these players whereas Arteta simply isn't. His argument, and a valid one it is, is that he's going to get a much higher points total as a result.

 

[Melquiades]

I've come to accept that Arteta doesn't see promoting academy players as his responsibility. It's not a view I agree with but I understand it. If Per or Jack suddenly became Arsenal manager it would be different, because they'd be willing to accept mistakes from these players whereas Arteta simply isn't. His argument, and a valid one it is, is that he's going to get a much higher points total as a result.

What academy players between Saka (2001-born) and Nwaneri/MLS (2006/07 born) should have been promoted into the 1st team and seen substantial minutes?

We don't really know what Arteta thinks or how he'll operate with good young players because there simply haven't been any since Saka ... outside of Saliba, who somehow always gets ignored.

 

[MutableEarth]

What academy players between Saka (2001-born) and Nwaneri/MLS (2006/07 born) should have been promoted into the 1st team and seen substantial minutes?

We don't really know what Arteta thinks or how he'll operate with good young players because there simply haven't been any since Saka ... outside of Saliba, who somehow always gets ignored.

Saliba gets ignored because he's not Hale End - and even Saliba took a long while to earn Arteta's trust. As soon as Arteta actually played him competitively, he proved himself. The argument will be split on him if it was brought up - was Saliba always capable or was Arteta right to make him fight for it?

That said, I also understand Arteta's reluctance - especially with the recent difficulties of the generation just after Saka/Nelson/ESR etc. Patino and Azeez were two of the best young midfielders of their age group in the country at one point, now neither of the two are playing top flight football. Patino has to rebuild his reputation in Spain and Azeez.......well, I dunno what Azeez is doing right now but his football career looks like it won't peak past being a heralded academy talent.

The simple fact of the matter is that Arteta has built a team that's not only a brick to beat, but it's hard to get in. Criticisms aside, we're competitive again both within and without. In order to play, you have to be better than the first team players. You wanna play LCM? You have to be as good as Rice. That son of a ***** #5 is still a relatively handy footballer even though he [redacted]. You need to be better than him AND Jorginho. Ødegaard is one of the best players in the PL. Try and take his spot!

It's frustrating not seeing the youngsters getting opportunities, but I can at least get behind the approach because the team is actually doing well enough that if the youngsters do get a chance, it's because they're matching their more experienced peers. Nwaneri will get his chance to shine. I'm almost certain of it. We've seen in pre-season and in his West Ham cameo last season that he's not a pushover nor does he lack personality on the field. Same with Lewis-Skelly - if they keep doing what they're currently doing I have no doubt they'll make in-roads into the team. We can have the conversation later on in the season (or if we don't see them vs Bolton) but I'm relaxed right now on their chances.

 

[Melquiades]

Saliba gets ignored because he's not Hale End - and even Saliba took a long while to earn Arteta's trust. As soon as Arteta actually played him competitively, he proved himself. The argument will be split on him if it was brought up - was Saliba always capable or was Arteta right to make him fight for it?

That said, I also understand Arteta's reluctance - especially with the recent difficulties of the generation just after Saka/Nelson/ESR etc. Patino and Azeez were two of the best young midfielders of their age group in the country at one point, now neither of the two are playing top flight football. Patino has to rebuild his reputation in Spain and Azeez.......well, I dunno what Azeez is doing right now but his football career looks like it won't peak past being a heralded academy talent.

The simple fact of the matter is that Arteta has built a team that's not only a brick to beat, but it's hard to get in. Criticisms aside, we're competitive again both within and without. In order to play, you have to be better than the first team players. You wanna play LCM? You have to be as good as Rice. That son of a ***** #5 is still a relatively handy footballer even though he [redacted]. You need to be better than him AND Jorginho. Ødegaard is one of the best players in the PL. Try and take his spot!

It's frustrating not seeing the youngsters getting opportunities, but I can at least get behind the approach because the team is actually doing well enough that if the youngsters do get a chance, it's because they're matching their more experienced peers. Nwaneri will get his chance to shine. I'm almost certain of it. We've seen in pre-season and in his West Ham cameo last season that he's not a pushover nor does he lack personality on the field. Same with Lewis-Skelly - if they keep doing what they're currently doing I have no doubt they'll make in-roads into the team. We can have the conversation later on in the season (or if we don't see them vs Bolton) but I'm relaxed right now on their chances.

Oh, for sure it's incredibly difficult to be an elite team and also develop academy players in the main squad. Especially in England with the level of competition - teams like Bayern, PSG, Madrid, Barca have a hell of a lot less competition for UCL spots and are often home and cooled in the league by mid-season and have a lot more wiggle room to give opportunities to young players. And I'll always take competing for championships over developing teenagers.

And it absolutely isn't a coincidence that our best run of academy talent into the team in decades happened circa 2019-2021 when the team was at their lowest ebb in the standings so there was scads more opportunity to be had.

But there also just hasn't been any sort of elite talent in between Saka and MLS/Nwaneri. Musah would probably have been next up after Saka but he left in 2019 and after that ... the 2002-2005 birth years are just barren. And I don't really know what else Arteta could have done. Fans here were screaming from the rooftops to give guys like Azeez/Patino minutes 2-3 years ago and when you see where those guys are at at age 21, you can see why they weren't getting those opportunities at 18. They did give a look to Sagoe Jr. last year and he looked awful in his one appearance, then had a bad loan in the Championship, now is in League 1. People wanted to give someone like FA Cup Winner Matt Smith a look, but would that have really been anything more than just pure charity?

Nwaneri and Lewis-Skelley are by all accounts on a different level and closer to the Saliba/Saka level of prodigious talent. I'm waiting to see how they're handled, and it sounds like Nwaneri in particular will be given some big looks soon.

 

[Aevi]

Saliba gets ignored because he's not Hale End - and even Saliba took a long while to earn Arteta's trust. As soon as Arteta actually played him competitively, he proved himself. The argument will be split on him if it was brought up - was Saliba always capable or was Arteta right to make him fight for it?

That said, I also understand Arteta's reluctance - especially with the recent difficulties of the generation just after Saka/Nelson/ESR etc. Patino and Azeez were two of the best young midfielders of their age group in the country at one point, now neither of the two are playing top flight football. Patino has to rebuild his reputation in Spain and Azeez.......well, I dunno what Azeez is doing right now but his football career looks like it won't peak past being a heralded academy talent.

The simple fact of the matter is that Arteta has built a team that's not only a brick to beat, but it's hard to get in. Criticisms aside, we're competitive again both within and without. In order to play, you have to be better than the first team players. You wanna play LCM? You have to be as good as Rice. That son of a ***** #5 is still a relatively handy footballer even though he [redacted]. You need to be better than him AND Jorginho. Ødegaard is one of the best players in the PL. Try and take his spot!

It's frustrating not seeing the youngsters getting opportunities, but I can at least get behind the approach because the team is actually doing well enough that if the youngsters do get a chance, it's because they're matching their more experienced peers. Nwaneri will get his chance to shine. I'm almost certain of it. We've seen in pre-season and in his West Ham cameo last season that he's not a pushover nor does he lack personality on the field. Same with Lewis-Skelly - if they keep doing what they're currently doing I have no doubt they'll make in-roads into the team. We can have the conversation later on in the season (or if we don't see them vs Bolton) but I'm relaxed right now on their chances.

Top 5 poster on this forum, glad to see not much has changed since I've been gone.

 

[lomekian]

Such a shame about Azeez. Kid looked better at 17 than he does now. Don't know if it was mental, attitude or what, but for such a technically accomplished footballer with a good frame, decent physicality etc, he really should be at a higher level.

Patino less surprised by, much smarter than Azeez in terms of running a game, but physically apart from growing a bit taller and stronger, hasn't really developed since he was 16. A shame, but one can't really predict that side of things all that easily.

Bar them, Musah & Balogun, its been a bit barren until the current u21/u18 crop.

 

[Gooner Zig]

I think Arteta will surprise a lot of you guys with Ethan this season - moving on ESR, Vieira, Nelson is a *big* signal that Nwaneri is being elevated to first team status.

As an aside, obviously Wenger is well known for his ability to integrate youth but did he do this when we were going toe to toe with Manchester United from 98-04? I only started following Arsenal fully in 01/02 as a teenager so my memory isn't the best but I can't recall those Arsenal teams playing youth so much?

 

[Arsenal1508]

The whole Saka/ESR/Eddie/Nelson/Martinelli generation got a tiny bit of action under Emery but Arteta is the manager that basically developed them as squad regulars. He also brought Saliba into the squad, albeit probably a year late and not technically a youth player.

Problem is that the generation of players for the last 5 years just ... hasn't been very good. The big gems have been guys like Patino and Azeez and people complained to high heaven about them not getting minutes ... but when it shakes out for them at age 20-21 it's pretty obvious why they weren't getting minutes. If you're playing in the Spanish 2nd Division or the Greek 2nd Division at age 21 you sure as hell weren't good enough to be playing for Arsenal when you were 18.

This next generation with Nwaneri/MLS seems a level up from that and we'll see how they're handled.

Stop rewriting history.

Saliba was forced on Teta...he didn't want him but Saliba was too good to be overlooked....voted Young player of the Year at France at age 20.

Saka and Martinellli was Unai Emery.

ESRowe was forced upon Arteta, but then he gave up on him and sold him after Smith Rowe save his job. We choose Sterling over Smith Rowe.

 

[Rasmi]

I think Arteta will surprise a lot of you guys with Ethan this season - moving on ESR, Vieira, Nelson is a *big* signal that Nwaneri is being elevated to first team status.

As an aside, obviously Wenger is well known for his ability to integrate youth but did he do this when we were going toe to toe with Manchester United from 98-04? I only started following Arsenal fully in 01/02 as a teenager so my memory isn't the best but I can't recall those Arsenal teams playing youth so much?

Well it would be surprise if that happened. We can only go by his history and his past indicates it’s very unlikely Ethan gets any minutes outside of the cups. My real issue is when he let esr and vieira go he should have brought in an attacking midfielder. Now if Ødegaard gets injured for 2 months it will be havertz in midfield.

 

[DJ_Markstar]

Sorry, but every great manager has integrated youth in total he starting 11.

Very much not true, Mourinho didn't give a toss about youth dev and Ferguson was gifted with a crazy amount of academy guys in the 90s but didn't appear to care much about it afterwards, aside from the odd Rooney/Ferdinand purchase who were more or less world class already when he bought them. Many other managers either see it as completely irrelevant or something they do as a side quest.

With a team like Brighton youth dev is a core part of their business model so they have a different approach to it.

 

[HattoriHanzo]

Stop rewriting history.

Saliba was forced on Teta...he didn't want him but Saliba was too good to be overlooked....voted Young player of the Year at France at age 20.

Saka and Martinellli was Unai Emery.

ESRowe was forced upon Arteta, but then he gave up on him and sold him after Smith Rowe save his job. We choose Sterling over Smith Rowe.

So, he wanted him?
Or not?
Bolded part is contradiction.

This can be said for any young player and any manager.
If he's good, he will not be overlooked.

And what this means, he was forced upon?
Who forced Arteta to use ESR?

 

[Tom349]

Saka and Martinelli never started a PL game under Emery, Freddie was the first to give them an opportunity and then Arteta developed them.

 

[Rasmi]

Saka and Martinelli never started a PL game under Emery, Freddie was the first to give them an opportunity and then Arteta developed them.

You do know this is absolutely not true right. Saka was a starter for months under Emery in 2019/2020 season

 

[MutableEarth]

Oh, for sure it's incredibly difficult to be an elite team and also develop academy players in the main squad. Especially in England with the level of competition - teams like Bayern, PSG, Madrid, Barca have a hell of a lot less competition for UCL spots and are often home and cooled in the league by mid-season and have a lot more wiggle room to give opportunities to young players. And I'll always take competing for championships over developing teenagers.

And it absolutely isn't a coincidence that our best run of academy talent into the team in decades happened circa 2019-2021 when the team was at their lowest ebb in the standings so there was scads more opportunity to be had.

But there also just hasn't been any sort of elite talent in between Saka and MLS/Nwaneri. Musah would probably have been next up after Saka but he left in 2019 and after that ... the 2002-2005 birth years are just barren. And I don't really know what else Arteta could have done. Fans here were screaming from the rooftops to give guys like Azeez/Patino minutes 2-3 years ago and when you see where those guys are at at age 21, you can see why they weren't getting those opportunities at 18. They did give a look to Sagoe Jr. last year and he looked awful in his one appearance, then had a bad loan in the Championship, now is in League 1. People wanted to give someone like FA Cup Winner Matt Smith a look, but would that have really been anything more than just pure charity?

Nwaneri and Lewis-Skelley are by all accounts on a different level and closer to the Saliba/Saka level of prodigious talent. I'm waiting to see how they're handled, and it sounds like Nwaneri in particular will be given some big looks soon.

I think there are players who perhaps would have had a couple of opportunities had injuries not completely ruined their development, while there are a handful who have left early on to seek more concrete opportunities (Hutchinson, Cozier-Duberry, Walters come to mind). In terms of injuries, the most egregious that comes to mind is Tyreece John-Jules. He had some flaws, but ultimately he was one of, if not the most rounded #9 talent we had produced but he has never been able to get off the ground due to his constant stream of injuries. He was released this Summer and still doesn't have a club, sadly.

Timing is everything in football and unfortunately windows can close just as quickly as they open. You have to be hungry (and fit) enough to take every opportunity that shows it's face. Sagoe Jr I thought did as well as I expected him to. He has often taken time to acclimatise to the levels he ascends to. I would have preferred Cozier-Duberry to get his opportunity - again, timing! But Sagoe Jr had worked hard to get his go.

I will say though, the newer generation look quite sturdy - although early days. Nwaneri and Lewis-Skelly get the plaudits naturally but the likes of Michal Rosiak, Ayden Heaven, Josh Nichols etc all look like good players in the making aswell. I'd say we're looking light in the attacking areas but dig below the current 2nd years and you've got the likes of new scholars like Andre Annous and Louis Zecevic-John (currently injured), who look really promising, as well as schoolboys like Brando Bailey-Joseph. Time will also tell on them, but Wilshere has done a very good job with them over the last 6 months or so and continuing to do so.

 

[MutableEarth]

I think Arteta will surprise a lot of you guys with Ethan this season - moving on ESR, Vieira, Nelson is a *big* signal that Nwaneri is being elevated to first team status.

As an aside, obviously Wenger is well known for his ability to integrate youth but did he do this when we were going toe to toe with Manchester United from 98-04? I only started following Arsenal fully in 01/02 as a teenager so my memory isn't the best but I can't recall those Arsenal teams playing youth so much?

Not really. The youth thing only really became more prominent post-Invincibles. Back in those days, Pennant and Aliadiere were like the main 2 youngsters who had significant rep and they didn't play all that much unless there was a League Cup game or some late minutes. Wenger was very liberal with the minutes in dead rubbers though, he always gave the kids a game when it didn't matter - but we didn't have as many back then it was just the two aforementioned. After that, we started to see a few guys like Karbasiyoon (spelling?), Seb Larsson (remember him?), Fabregas had just joined as a literal baby and who could forget David Bentley? . But that was mostly during or after the Invincibles, when the team started to get older and Wenger started rebuilding with an eye on the new stadium.

I was a big supporter of Project Youth and had we been able to keep hold of some of our better players it would have yielded better results. But Project Youth was a necessary evil at the time, rather than a super viable means of winning. It was meant to keep us afloat. IMO Wenger abandoning the philosophy post-2014 was one of the things that screwed us up in his later years as manager. We're in a position now where we don't really need to do that anymore - it feels a little more like 2001 Arsenal at the moment. Competitive but just marginally shy of a behemoth Manchester club. The only thing we don't have is a Thierry Henry.

EDIT: There was one defender we had who was really promising actually a REALLY long time ago but he died in a car accident IIRC. Can't remember his name but I remember that.