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Ex-Gunner Watch

Is it wrong to still love Giroud

  • Yes he’s no longer a gooner

  • No he will always be a top man


Results are only viewable after voting.

freeglennhelder2

Established Member

Country: England

Player:Elneny
Spot on. To me Vieira is still unmatched in the PL era of players that I've watched. As you say only Keane came close to that level of midfielder.
Vieira at his peak was so effortlessly ahead of his peers in the Prem that he often resembled an adult having a kickabout with some kids in the park.

I remember the first time I saw him at Highbury, think he came on as a sub. He received the ball in our half and stormed all the way into the opposition penalty box. Everyone around me was awestruck, bewildered and a little frightened. Who the hell was this guy?
 

Riou

In The Winchester, Waiting For This To Blow Over

Country: Northern Ireland

Player:Gabriel
Arsenal: "Emi, we want you to continue fighting for your place with Leno...we think that will ring out the best in both of you."

Martinez: "That doesn't work for me, brother."
 

Taneruit

Established Member

Country: Switzerland

Player:Zinchenko

"they didn't deserve me"

FFS, have some dignity. Until Leno got injured your value wasn't there at all. Be happy you got your opportunity and move.

If anything this comment only hurts your image. You were a starter for a month+ due to injury.
Demanding to go from that to undisputed number 1 is ridiculous.
 

TromsoGooner

Obsessed With Looking for Eric
Not a great start for Sanogo, missed a penalty fifteen minutes from time at 0-0. By the way, did anyone see Gabriel breaking down in tears in an interview last weekend when the interviewer asked him about Valencia possibly being relegated? Sensitive guy our Paulista.
 

Taneruit

Established Member

Country: Switzerland

Player:Zinchenko
Not a great start for Sanogo, missed a penalty fifteen minutes from time at 0-0. By the way, did anyone see Gabriel breaking down in tears in an interview last weekend when the interviewer asked him about Valencia possibly being relegated? Sensitive guy our Paulista.
Valencia is safe. They're *relegated * just like we were *relegated*.

Gabriel's been really good for them imo.
 

Riou

In The Winchester, Waiting For This To Blow Over

Country: Northern Ireland

Player:Gabriel
That's amazing....after Vieira pushes him away, you just know Beckham is thinking "Nope" about trying to get the ball of him again :lol:
 

Macho

In search of Pure Profit 💸
Dusted 🔻

Country: England

Mislintat exclusive: I don’t feel ashamed of any of the transfers at Arsenal​

Raphael Honigstein

It’s just over two years ago that Sven Mislintat announced he was stepping down from his role as Arsenal’s head of recruitment.
Following his stint in north London, the 48-year-old took over as sporting director at fallen giants VfB Stuttgart and won promotion back to the Bundesliga in his first full season in charge.
In the current campaign, VfB’s young and exciting team have caught the eye with some superb counter-attacking football that’s won them many plaudits as well as points: they’re ninth after 24 games, much closer to the top six places than the relegation zone.
The former Borussia Dortmund scout credited with spotting many of the club’s best signings over the last decade spoke to The Athletic about his successful rebuilding project in Swabia, working with Jurgen Klopp and his time at the Emirates.
Many people thought Stuttgart would be in danger of going down again this season. Instead, everyone’s full of praise for your side, and young shooting stars such as Silas Wamangituka (11 league goals), Sasa Kalajdzic (12 league goals) and Nicolas Gonzalez (six league goals) in particular. Did you expect to be doing this well?
I was convinced that we had the quality to be successful, and survive any relegation battle. It was obvious that we had quality, even more so when Pellegrino Matarazzo took over (in December 2019). If you look at the average age of the squad — at 23.7, we’re the youngest team in the league, beating Borussia Dortmund in their stadium 5-1 with the all-time second-youngest starting eleven (22.8) ever played in Bundesliga history — it’s still quite remarkable how cool we’ve played it so far. We could have won more points. But that’s owed to our youth and part of our development.
sven-mislintat


Matarazzo hugs Mislintat, sporting director of VfB Stuttgart (Photo: Sebastian Gollnow via Getty Images)

Four, five points more and we’d be looking at European football, but maybe that would be too much for the first season back in the top flight, we need to grow at a pace that is sustainable but meets this club’s tradition. Our realistic pathway is to improve step by step our revenues and our infrastructure while staying very hungry for individual and team development. But first we will have to consolidate financially in order to recover from COVID-19, more or less like all clubs have to do so.

By selling players?
Due to the COVID-19 crisis, we have lost more than €30 million so far. Of course, it is one way to generate some income, like we did after we became relegated in ’18-19 to balance our books due to a massive decrease of TV and sponsorships money.
But to be very clear: my ambition is to win every single game, independently of which opponent you are facing. And because of that my aim is to keep this group together, as they’ve only just started and they will keep improving. If we are able to support this improvement, I’m very optimistic about the club’s future. Stuttgart is a fantastic town in one of Europe’s wealthiest areas. VfB have a huge pull. The financial landscape is much better here than for many other clubs in Bundesliga. Especially with (car manufacturer) Daimler, a fantastic partner. Their commitment in general and particularly in the years we played Bundesliga 2 was essential and the key for what you see today.
It is wrong to blame them for sportive failures of the past. This is not their area of responsibility, it’s the club’s. Daimler’s mindset is not to lose a competition, it is about winning, like their racing team is doing in Formula One. Taking this into account it is remarkable that they are still on board, it is our job to convince them, with good work, to become the game-changer for us. This club’s potential is enormous but many people still fight or see conflict in tradition versus the business of sport, instead of combining both and really awakening this giant.

You started out as a match analyst and scout at Dortmund, then became head of recruitment at Arsenal before working as sporting director at Stuttgart. How has the substance of your work changed over the years?
It’s been a journey. Before I started working as an employee at Borussia Dortmund, I was first in touch with them because of my work as chief analyst for a service provider for most of the Bundesliga clubs and the German Football Association.
Our company was offering an exclusive wide angle of the games and provided managers, head coaches and analysts with customised video and analytics. At the time, I worked with (former manager) Matthias Sammer and (assistant) Uwe Neuhaus in the season 2002, when BVB won the championship. That was the initial link.
I was lucky to start four years later as the first and only employee of the new scouting department in 2006. The club had only just avoided bankruptcy, they had no real set-up in that regard. The data revolution hadn’t really happened yet. My first role was technical scout, tasked with setting up data, tracking and scouting systems. Soon after I was made head scout on an interim basis, and then full-time a year later. From being (sporting director) Michael Zorc’s right-hand man to the match analyst in the same time, I was involved with topics that went beyond scouting in the classic sense. It was a lot of work but a cool gig. Dortmund was my club and to be involved as somebody who only had played at the third and fourth league level was great.

Then Arsenal came calling. Did your falling out with (former Dortmund coach) Thomas Tuchel play a part in your decision to leave Dortmund?
Not really. I left Dortmund around six months later than Thomas Tuchel did. When I took my final decision to leave Dortmund for Arsenal, I saw BVB in a fantastic and very strong position, we had just signed Jadon Sancho from Manchester City, we were first in the Bundesliga with a very balanced, exciting squad, and were on an amazing run under our new manager Peter Bosz.
At that point, in October 2017 and after 11 years working for Borussia Dortmund, I just thought it was time to explore another environment and develop myself further. Thankfully, Arsenal was that opportunity.

What made the interest of Arsenal special?
Getting approached by Arsène Wenger was a huge honour and accolade for me. Arsenal had been the benchmark, my personal blueprint, when I started at Dortmund. They were a role model in 2006, playing one-touch football with young talents unearthed in France and elsewhere. They developed them and sold them on for good money. They weren’t yet playing the Barcelona-inspired possession-football; it was fast, vertical, quick transitions, exactly the kind of football that fits Dortmund at its best, with an exemplary recruitment strategy.
wenger-mislintat


Wenger with Mislintat at London Colney (Photo: Stuart MacFarlane/Arsenal FC via Getty Images)
Arsène had made an art-form out of doing a lot with comparatively very little. That’s precisely the path we followed, and it is still the approach I follow here at Stuttgart. Dortmund had been used to being a buying club, but their financial challenges no longer made that possible.
The best ideas are often born in the hour of need and that’s what happened. Thanks to some good decisions and having Jurgen Klopp as a manager, Dortmund won trophies again and became efficient. I was lucky to be part of that amazing project and with a good group of people.

And at Arsenal?
There was of course no sporting or technical director at the time. Arsène oversaw everything, a more common English manager approach. My role was head of recruitment and to be a partner for Arsène regarding the squad planning.
After Arsène left, I had an important technical role as a member of an expert group that included Ivan Gazidis (CEO), Raul Sanllehi (head of football relations), Huss Fahmy (director of football operations), Jaeson Rosenfeld (head of analytics), and later by Unai Emery (the head coach).
I had good relationships with everyone but on many topics, given the nature of our responsibilities, I most worked closely with Huss and Jaeson. We have become good friends since, they’re really great guys and they are two of the best and talented people I have met in my football career.
Huss is a really progressive thinker and honestly has an incredible capacity to work smartly across many different areas. He’s brilliant with people and has real integrity, I value a lot that he will always stand up for what he believes in, always pushing for things to be better. Jaeson is the same, he has extraordinary ability to apply complicated points in ways you can immediately use, and he can adapt to anything. His knowledge of the game is first-class and you know he is always working to find the best solution. I enjoyed working together with them and it would be exciting to work once again with them.

And why did you leave in the end?
I joined Arsenal to work with Arsène and to prove myself in the best competitions, the Premier League.
My plan was to learn from one of the best managers in football history, support and challenge him to win as many games as possible and the day he would stop his career as a manager, maybe watch him change to the board level to preserve the values and philosophy of Arsenal and his work, ambition and legacy. Arsène left after the end of the season of course and a few months later Ivan Gazidis left to become CEO at Milan. At that point, Arsenal restructured its leadership.
I applied for the newly-created technical director role and Raul Sanllehi and Vinai Venkatesham, who succeeded Ivan in a co-leadership role at Arsenal, decided to go for someone else.
We then agreed in a very respectful way that I would leave, all entirely amicable.
Originally, my idea was to take a break for a few months, to learn another language, to improve my poor surfing level (laughs) and to exchange ideas with some of the fascinating characters in sport and business, to swap ideas and experiences and generally learn and improve.
But one of the first calls was by Wolfgang Dietrich, president of VfB Stuttgart those days, and I felt immediately on fire for Stuttgart’s project.

Stuttgart were heading for relegation when you agreed to become sporting director under executive board member Thomas Hitzlsperger in April 2019. Two months later, they indeed did go down. Did you worry about taking on such a big role at a fallen giant?
No. Not for one single moment. Stuttgart are a huge, prestigious powerhouse. Clubs like that only approach you when they’re in trouble. If everything’s going swimmingly, there’s no need for a new sporting director. That’s just the way it is. I took the project on because I saw the potential, not the drawbacks.
And they offered me a much bigger job than the ones I’ve done before. Sporting director is the principal technical role in Germany, it’s a very public-facing role. You’re very integrated with the coach/manager. The sporting director and the coach work very closely but there does need to be some separation. I will always debate important subjects with him and make sure he’s on board but ultimately, I need to make the club decisions and provide the framework for him to work within.
It must be a very open, communicative process but you do need clarity where responsibility falls, and that falls with me.
You are like an architect and a builder. There are no excuses because you need to design a plan and then find the balance between executing directly the things to bring it to life and taking responsibility for putting in place the people who make it happen. I accept if it does not work, it is down to me.

Tell us more about your relationship with Matarazzo. How does it work when it comes to buying players, for example?
We have the perfect scenario here.
We discuss everything openly, on an equal footing. Regarding player recruitment, he’s the most important opinion besides mine and I take his views into account, but it doesn’t mean I will always heed them.
At the end of the day, I’m responsible for making the best use of our resources and in a sustainable manner.
Conversely, he will include me in his thinking and treat me similar to an assistant coach. He might ask about my views after a training session, about a starting XI or match-day squad.
But he will pick the team and I would never interfere. Once he took his decision on something in his responsibility area, he will always get 100 per cent backing from me. We’re extremely honest with each other, that makes our work together so good and productive. This was also key at Dortmund. Take Jurgen Klopp: like nearly all managers he has an ego and is a very confident guy, but there was never a problem during or after a debate, even if I disagreed with him about the qualities of a particular player. We had a culture of debate, those in power challenged each other’s views in a very constructive way. Although he said once that he is the normal one, he is quite special.
Things become problematic when no one’s asking any uncomfortable questions. When I see something I don’t like or I don’t understand, even in a 5-1 win over Schalke 04 two weeks ago, I will talk to Rino about it. Equally, he will give his assessment of a player I would really like to sign: “I’m sorry, but this particular player doesn’t quite have it and I don’t think he’ll ever have it.” That’s exactly what I want and need to happen because it’s important in helping us win games and grow as a club.

Would you say he was your best signing? He was virtually unknown before you brought him in December 2019
I had come across him years ago when he worked as youth coach at Nuremberg. Back then I thought about him for the role of managing Dortmund’s second team. Here at Stuttgart, it might have been easier to appoint him first as assistant coach under a more experienced head, especially for me as a young sporting director. But that would have been a political decision, one designed to reduce the pressure on myself, and I never make political decisions.
It is unfair to compare him to Kloppo — they’re at very different phases of their careers, at very different clubs and are different characters — but for the path that we’re on at Stuttgart, he’s the best man, just as Kloppo was for Dortmund.
We wanted someone brave enough to play the youngsters, someone who didn’t follow the classic pattern of relying only on experienced pros, playing a risk-averse type of football. We couldn’t work with someone who likes his players ready-made. Our model is not that of Juventus. Don’t get me wrong, there will always be a need for managers who get the most out of the existing potential in a star-studded squad, but we needed something different.
The aim was to find someone who wanted to grow himself, who was hungry to get ahead, who wasn’t the finished article yet. For VfB Stuttgart you don’t find the special coach Rino is already by riffling through the portfolio of managers that everyone knows already.
Rino is courageous enough to go our way and also excellent when it comes to turning potential into quality and improving players. He loves doing that. And that’s on top of all the basics he does outstandingly well: devising a match plan, adapting to the opposition, using our strengths smartly, knowing our own weaknesses, and so on. He had a hand in tactics as assistant coach of Julian Nagelsmann at Hoffenheim.
When you see Julian’s RB Leipzig and our team now, you can see a crossover. They both understand football. I’m extremely pleased that we went with him rather than bow to pressure and go for a big name that wouldn’t have fit our philosophy as well.

How difficult was it to go from signing players for Arsenal to signing players for Stuttgart in the second division?
The basic task is the same. You want to sign the best possible player for the best possible price. But you need to take the different competitions and club budgets and needs into account. It was more tricky after relegation. In our case, we had to build a squad that would work in the second division, where it’s rough and ready and we were among the favourites, as well as for Bundesliga, where the football is a lot more refined.
A player like Silas Wamangituka is already pretty good against deep-lying formations but give him a bit of space in the counter-attack in the top flight (and) you can be sure it isn’t really fun to defend him in these situations. We are happy most of our decisions worked out so far.
Additionally, it is worth mentioning that we added only a small group of players after promotion to the team. In Waldemar Anton, one of our centre-backs, only one of them had any Bundesliga experience. In most of our games we used at least nine to 10 players in the starting XI who were already part of the team that achieved promotion.

One of the new signings, on loan, was Konstantinos Mavropanos, whom you had first signed at Arsenal. How is he getting on?
He has all the hardware and all the software to be a great defender. He has been unfortunate, he’s got a lot of injuries. A pubic bone inflammation kept him out more or less for one and a half years. The moment we thought we could play him, he tore his meniscus. It’s important for us to get him fully match fit. If he can stabilise physically, he’s undoubtedly a Bundesliga-level defender. He’s one of the fastest centre-backs in the league alongside Dayot Upamecano. A super guy, a model professional. You have to admire his energy, all the strength it took to get over his injuries. We’re super happy that he’s been a regular starter in recent weeks. We would like to keep him on loan one more season, if possible. But that will be down to Arsenal.

Talking of centre-backs, Nat Phillips has gone back to Liverpool after helping you win promotion last season. Do you miss him?
Absolutely. He’s a Klopp player, through and through. Superb mentality on the training ground, during the game and in the changing room. He was everything we wanted. He was very popular, a really important factor for us with his quality as a defender, his spirit and friendship. We would always take him back, with open arms.
And there’s also another of your Arsenal signings in the Bundesliga: Matteo Guendouzi, at Hertha BSC. He was recently criticised for playing “adolescent football” by coach Pal Dardai.
I disagree with Pal. If you’re not playing Matteo in midfield, it must be a very strong midfield. Matteo has the personality needed to demand every ball in tight situations and has great vision to play vertical and every other angle. That’s his real strength. As a teenager from Ligue 2, he played 48 games for Arsenal in his first season. I assure you, you are not able to “survive” that amount of Premier League caps playing adolescent football.

He’s a young central midfielder. In that position, players reach their peak at 27-28. He obviously doesn’t get everything right but he plays with a decisiveness and quality that make him an extraordinary player. Dardai criticised him for losing the ball in the box against RB Leipzig but we want players who are brave on the ball, who can move past the pressure. Losing the odd ball is part of that. If it happens, you have to ask for the next ball, and that was what Matteo did and I loved to see it. You shouldn’t try to change his game but work on the details to improve him, if you are able to do so, you make him a “monster” midfielder.

But Mikel Arteta didn’t want him in his squad this season?
I respect Mikel a lot. I’d love to talk to him one day, to understand his reasons for sending Matteo as well as Lucas Torreira on loan, and tell him my view in relation to their qualities.
But it’s his decision of course.
My personal opinion remains that Matteo would still add some extra qualities to Arsenal’s midfield, like Lucas could. Their market values increased hugely after their debut season.

Why didn’t it work out for Emery in the end, you think?
For me, it is impossible to make a proper evaluation. I left Arsenal in early February 2019. I think you can’t say he did not do well in his first season, which was the only one I was together with him at Arsenal. I can’t give an opinion on his second season without having the insight of being there.

Looking back at your signings, was is it a mistake to focus on players you knew from your time at Dortmund? It came across as a little uninspired.
“He only knows Dortmund players”. That was the take, I know. But that can’t influence your decisions. You have to free yourself from opinions and politics as best as possible and be convinced that you’re doing the right thing. You can get it wrong. But those have to be honest mistakes, not mistakes you make because you felt you needed to make certain moves for appearances’ sake.
But, anyway, I am fine to discuss the signings of former Dortmund players.
Let’s start with Auba: Arsenal’s captain. No need to talk about it. His statistics since he joined the Premier League stands for itself. He’s still got the most goals and assists since in a team that scores fewer goals than the other top teams. He was massively important for Arsenal’s FA Cup win with his quality and goals.
Henrikh Mkhitaryan? A swap deal with Alexis Sanchez, a player that would hold no residual value for the club a few days later. Miki was more than a good deal for the squad and for the accounts. On top of it, you gain a player who speaks seven languages and connects with everyone in the dressing room, important in that moment. He’s a top pro and an outstanding person. He leads by example, worked really hard. He led players like Matteo. People underestimate him, I will never do that. I am very happy for him that he showed up again at Roma.
Sokratis? He was there to add something to the group: that kind of aggression, his winning mentality, getting your teeth into the game, winning without playing beautiful. Not to forget, he was a perfect mentor for Dinos (Mavropanos).
From my point of view Sokratis and Laurent Koscielny complemented each other well. Behind them, we had Rob Holding, Dinos Mavropanos, Calum Chambers already as successors and challengers in place and a shortlist of some exciting youngsters to buy, including William Saliba for a reasonable amount of money.

Sokratis, Koscielny, Petr Cech, Aaron Ramsey complemented by the Swiss men Stephan Lichtsteiner and Granit Xhaka, this group were ready to push the dressing room more towards a high-performance mentality. The idea was to have a group of seasoned pros to maintain that hunger.
Petr Cech and Stephan were particularly important in setting an example of leadership for our young professionals and academy players like Emile Smith Rowe, Bukayo Saka, Eddie Nketiah, Joe Willock and Reiss Nelson. All of them were introduced into the professional environment at the time.

Would you concede that Stephan Lichtsteiner was not a success?
Cech and Lichtsteiner are prototypes of winners. They improve your whole team with their mindsets, just being in the dressing room. That’s why we added Stephan. He played 23 games in all competitions, he was meant as a back-up and came on a free. Tactically, he’s one of the best full-backs ever.
In Sead Kolasinac, Hector Bellerin and Ainsley Maitland-Niles, we had three full-backs who have their strengths going forward. We wanted to provide them with someone who had a strong defensive mentality, who could be a proxy for Unai on the pitch, to help the others improve their defensive movement and be a pain in the ass for anyone doing things half-heartedly. He did that job perfectly.
To be quite clear: I don’t feel ashamed of any of those transfers, on the contrary, I will always defend these guys. Not because they were my players but because they were Arsenal players and capable ones. They turned up. The team went unbeaten in 22 games in all competitions, made it to the Europa League final and finished fifth with 70 points. You can say that’s not good enough. But many teams would love to finish fifth now. I felt that we were on the right track and I would have enjoyed the opportunity to develop further at Arsenal. Anyway, I don’t look back. I learned massively and loved my days at the club, in the Premier League and in London.

 
  • Goal
Reactions: A_G

Macho

In search of Pure Profit 💸
Dusted 🔻

Country: England
I did not know Wenger approached Sven though, the media always spun it like he was an unwelcome interference from the dictatorship Wenger was running.

Reading Wenger's book though, he always liked to bring "the best of class" to the club for their expertise and looking at Sven's career trajectory at the time it makes sense.
 

Riou

In The Winchester, Waiting For This To Blow Over

Country: Northern Ireland

Player:Gabriel
I did not know Wenger approached Sven though, the media always spun it like he was an unwelcome interference from the dictatorship Wenger was running.

Reading Wenger's book though, he always liked to bring "the best of class" to the club for their expertise and looking at Sven's career trajectory at the time it makes sense.

But Arsène buried him when he joined though...

"The club know every player around the world, but Sven will help with some second devision German clubs"

...Sven was hired to take power away from Arsène by Ivan, unsure if Arsène wanted Sven here.
 

Macho

In search of Pure Profit 💸
Dusted 🔻

Country: England
But Arsène buried him when he joined though...

"The club know every player around the world, but Sven will help with some second devision German clubs"

...Sven was hired to take power away from Arsène by Ivan, unsure if Arsène wanted Sven here.
What made the interest of Arsenal special?

Getting approached by Arsène Wenger was a huge honour and accolade for me. Arsenal had been the benchmark, my personal blueprint, when I started at Dortmund. They were a role model in 2006, playing one-touch football with young talents unearthed in France and elsewhere. They developed them and sold them on for good money. They weren’t yet playing the Barcelona-inspired possession-football; it was fast, vertical, quick transitions, exactly the kind of football that fits Dortmund at its best, with an exemplary recruitment strategy.

wenger-mislintat


Wenger with Mislintat at London Colney (Photo: Stuart MacFarlane/Arsenal FC via Getty Images)

Arsène had made an art-form out of doing a lot with comparatively very little. That’s precisely the path we followed, and it is still the approach I follow here at Stuttgart.

I remember the same as you, that's why I said what I said - but he literally says the opposite here.

Pretty sure it was Sven who convinced Wenger to get Auba as well actually.
 

Riou

In The Winchester, Waiting For This To Blow Over

Country: Northern Ireland

Player:Gabriel
I remember the same as you, that's why I said what I said - but he literally says the opposite here.

Pretty sure it was Sven who convinced Wenger to get Auba as well actually.

Sven looks exactly like Keith Lemon here, dress sense and all ffs :lol:
 

Toby

No longer a Stuttgart Fan
Moderator
I did not know Wenger approached Sven though, the media always spun it like he was an unwelcome interference from the dictatorship Wenger was running.

Reading Wenger's book though, he always liked to bring "the best of class" to the club for their expertise and looking at Sven's career trajectory at the time it makes sense.

Also speaks for Wenger. I always maintained one of his biggest mistakes was not bringing fresh backroom and coaching staff once in a while like e.g. Ferguson did every now and then to support him with the challenges of modern football, divide some responsibility and infuse fresh ideas on the pitch. E.g. I haven't really thought it out in any coherent manner, but I think it's really no coincidence Wenger and his free flowing, expressive football got into trouble with the arrival of highly organized spacial defending and gegenpressing, minimizing space and time you got on the ball thus making it harder to play as expressive and defined by individual choice as Wenger wanted to. Also you do need a certain standard of quality player for such football and the increased transfer fees for such players did the rest. It's actually baffling Wenger kept pulling out relative bargains and made them work for such a long time before the market soured completely and every guy with two feet suddenly cost 20m. A fresh assistant versed in such tactics could've worked wonders during Wenger's later years imo.

Coming back to my first thought - if Wenger approached Mislintat to revamp and strengthen his transfer department that actually speaks against my initial thought of Wenger not trying to change it up with backroom staff.
 

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