FA: Leeds vs Arsenal | 04/01/04

[Soler]

Toldo's not as good as you make him out to be, but he's still in the top 5 in the world. Lehmann is very good. I'd much rather him as our keeper than Seaman now.

At the moment, the best keepers are Dida, Buffon, and Casillas. Casillas saved Real Madrid personally against Barcelona in the Super Classico, from some of those Kluivert shots that were coming in. I'd rank Lehmann in the top ten, though.

 

[Anonymous]

Get a grip SOL, how much have you actually seen of Toldo, Buffon or Kahn???

Yes, they are all outstanding keepers - and they all make mistakes sometimes, even bad ones like Buffon the other day in the Seria A.

Since we cannot convince you that Jens is a good keeper who has saved our ass many times in the EPL, let´s just leave it the way it is. You think Lehmann is complete crap, ok.

There is obviousely no point in trying to show you that Jens has done quite well....

You're right there. I don't think we can change his mind. He had a go at me once about how I didn't know anything about football because I suggested Edu should start ahead of Gilberto. So be it, I know nothing.

Ive seen every game jens has played for us this year and i, like the majority of people i go to games with are yet to be convinced by him.
I dont think he is a crap keeper sammer i dont think i have ever said that. He has had some good games for us but has made many errors and has not looked safe.
He will do for now, but what i said is that we need a better keeper than him for next year. He is no where near in the top ten keepers in the world on his best day imo.

It is just my opinion. Yours is different. Thats fine.

And Andrew that comment i made about Edu was made nearer the start of the season if i remember rightly. Last season Edus performances were terrible, but he has improved a lot recently. And of course you know about football, you are one of the best posters on this board.

 

[Andrew]

Get a grip SOL, how much have you actually seen of Toldo, Buffon or Kahn???

Yes, they are all outstanding keepers - and they all make mistakes sometimes, even bad ones like Buffon the other day in the Seria A.

Since we cannot convince you that Jens is a good keeper who has saved our ass many times in the EPL, let´s just leave it the way it is. You think Lehmann is complete crap, ok.

There is obviousely no point in trying to show you that Jens has done quite well....

You're right there. I don't think we can change his mind. He had a go at me once about how I didn't know anything about football because I suggested Edu should start ahead of Gilberto. So be it, I know nothing.

Ive seen every game jens has played for us this year and i, like the majority of people i go to games with are yet to be convinced by him.
I dont think he is a crap keeper sammer i dont think i have ever said that. He has had some good games for us but has made many errors and has not looked safe.
He will do for now, but what i said is that we need a better keeper than him for next year. He is no where near in the top ten keepers in the world on his best day imo.

It is just my opinion. Yours is different. Thats fine.

And Andrew that comment i made about Edu was made nearer the start of the season if i remember rightly. Last season Edus performances were terrible, but he has improved a lot recently. And of course you know about football, you are one of the best posters on this board.

I don't think we'll ever come to an agreement over this subject. As you said we all have opinions and most of us don't change them. But my basic view is that Lehmann is an improvement over last season. He does flap at crosses occasionally and makes the odd blunder, but overall I think he's won more matches for us then lost. If we can find a goalkeeper who can do the lot and not make any blunders then that would be great. But in the situation we were in I think he was the perfect buy because he's good, experienced and cheap. I can't think of many better goalkeepers at his price. And by buying him it also doesn't rule out Taylor and Stack's chances in the future.

 

[reggiepaul]

Ive seen every game jens has played for us this year and i, like the majority of people i go to games with are yet to be convinced by him.
I dont think he is a crap keeper sammer i dont think i have ever said that. He has had some good games for us but has made many errors and has not looked safe.
He will do for now, but what i said is that we need a better keeper than him for next year. He is no where near in the top ten keepers in the world on his best day imo.

It is just my opinion. Yours is different. Thats fine.

And Andrew that comment i made about Edu was made nearer the start of the season if i remember rightly. Last season Edus performances were terrible, but he has improved a lot recently. And of course you know about football, you are one of the best posters on this board.

Sol, no offence but I would change the people I would go to a game with.

I go to games with different people all the time and talk to different people every game and their opinions all differ, based upon the type of people they hang around with. The same is on the internet where on messageboards you find everyone in agreement because they want to be in the same gang.

Sad, yes, but even amongst arsenal fans no one wants to look like a rebel. I know people who come together and damn some of our own players while they like others - no reason, it's just part of their like cliquey group to suck up to certain players and have a go at others. I have never ever, been given brilliant arguments against Lehmann or any of our players. Never. Heard rubbish like "he looks..." this way crap or is ****e or he has no form when the stats clear state differently.

One thing is Sol I've noticed if you can back up your statements effectively, statistically, reasonably - you've got a chance for people to believe you, well some, others are too arrogant in their little groups to think otherwise. I'd love to be proved wrong but it'll be nice if someone can come up with something better than "his form is crap" when he plays most games and the one's that make me laugh the most like, "he can't pass" or "he loses the ball". For those statements you should stop watching accrington stanley and watch arsenal - we don't lose the ball and we can all pass.

I've seen everyone of Lehmanns games and damn this man is good. It's been a long long while I've been confident about a keeper and I'm glad I am. He catches the ball well - is always in position, his distribution pisses all over Seaman and our other keepers over the past season and most times he has done things our previous keepers would wave at the defence to do for them. We've been poverty stricken when it came to keepers and we've been making average keepers look good at Arsenal.

Now this guy, practically gets rated highly (yes not from sky sports, but god, they talk garbage) from all corners - he deserves respect.

Viduka took his chances - good for him. Flukey fat ****.

 

[thegame24]

even though he has made 2 mistakes i reckon lehmann has been very good for us and has saved us on many occasions. most importantly against kiev at highbury.

 

[lewdikris]

Lehmann is the new Grobbelar. Pure and simple. Brilliant, but prone to silliness every 10 games or so.

It happens, goalies are like drummers, inveterate ****ing weirdos. Still, he's saved our butts quite a few times, and though his kicking's variable, i've rarely seen a keeper as strong on crosses, or as mentally determined.

O, and he does the monkey dance for penalties, which is just class. And just like Grobbelar, who may have been a cheating git, but was also pretty class.

 

[thegame24]

thing about that monkey dance is that it dont work.

well it worked once against van diver but lehmann still went the wrong way.

if you notice in the comm shield everytime he DID the dance he didnt save, but as soon as he stopped he SAVED a van nistlerooy Pen SAVED!!!

 

[jc8gooner]

I read an article in the arsenal magazine with Jens that says that the monkey dance does not increase the chance of saving the pen, but increases the chance of the taker missing the goal. As Van Nistelrooy did against Arsenal. Apparently, it makes the goal look smaller.

 

[Mark]

I read an article in the arsenal magazine with Jens that says that the monkey dance does not increase the chance of saving the pen, but increases the chance of the taker missing the goal. As Van Nistelrooy did against Arsenal. Apparently, it makes the goal look smaller.

sounds interesting. i don't think i've ever seen any other keeper do that before.

 

[jc8gooner]

Maybe it wasn't in the arsenal mag, but I am sure I read or heard that somewhere

 

[thegame24]

grobbelarrrrrrwhatever his name is used to do something similar only he wasnt allowed to move across the line.

 

[AFCG7]

Penalties are like a lottery.. i dont think any one keeper has a solution.
Some players may be put off by the likes of Lehmann and co. who move alot across the line, but for some pk takers it makes no difference.
BUffon when asked about penalties in the last world cup said he always keeps still with his arms spread wide and tries to assume which way the kicker will go by analyzing his body movement just before the kick is taken.. but he also said this does not always work.
There's no secret really.. just that some players are psyched out before they kick and some just feel nothing and give the ball a whack

 

[Anonymous]

Ive seen every game jens has played for us this year and i, like the majority of people i go to games with are yet to be convinced by him.
I dont think he is a crap keeper sammer i dont think i have ever said that. He has had some good games for us but has made many errors and has not looked safe.
He will do for now, but what i said is that we need a better keeper than him for next year. He is no where near in the top ten keepers in the world on his best day imo.

It is just my opinion. Yours is different. Thats fine.

And Andrew that comment i made about Edu was made nearer the start of the season if i remember rightly. Last season Edus performances were terrible, but he has improved a lot recently. And of course you know about football, you are one of the best posters on this board.

Sol, no offence but I would change the people I would go to a game with.


One thing is Sol I've noticed if you can back up your statements effectively, statistically, reasonably - you've got a chance for people to believe you, well some, others are too arrogant in their little groups to think otherwise. I'd love to be proved wrong but it'll be nice if someone can come up with something better than "his form is crap" when he plays most games and the one's that make me laugh the most like, "he can't pass" or "he loses the ball". For those statements you should stop watching accrington stanley and watch arsenal - we don't lose the ball and we can all pass.

I've seen everyone of Lehmanns games and damn this man is good. It's been a long long while I've been confident about a keeper and I'm glad I am. He catches the ball well - is always in position, his distribution pisses all over Seaman and our other keepers over the past season and most times he has done things our previous keepers would wave at the defence to do for them. We've been poverty stricken when it came to keepers and we've been making average keepers look good at Arsenal.

Now this guy, practically gets rated highly (yes not from sky sports, but god, they talk garbage) from all corners - he deserves respect.

Viduka took his chances - good for him. Flukey fat ****.

I cant really back my opinion of him up with any facts or figures, just from watching him i dont have great confidence in him at all. Football is a strange game that creates many differnet opinions on players, to one person a player can be the best but the worst to another.

I used to have so much confidence in Seaman (before he went downhill fast of course).
I felt whenever a ball went back to him from a kick or a cross came in it would be his. I knew there would be no errors.

Whenever a new keeper came in be it Lukic, Bartram, Miller, Harper, Manninger, Wright, Taylor or Lehamann i have never felt the same confidence.

I remember being at OT when we won the league, and at the Reebok the game before that. Taylor and Wright had occupied the goal at times that season with limited success, and Seaman was just faultless in those to games. I knew if a ball went into the box it was his.
Im probably being harsh on mad Jens, but i dont think ill ever trust a keeper as much as i did Seaman in his pomp, and that is who ever keeper is going to be compared to for a long time.

 

[thegame24]

to be honest i do feel more confident with jens lehmann compared to the others you mentioned, however, seaman was really great so its tough to say lehmann is better because hes not, but i am confident of him in goal.

 

[thegame24]

you are not an arsenal fan so why bother calling yourself henry14?

no arsenal fan would call seaman an old fart after what hes done for us. you are a pure arsehole and you talk rubbish.

 

[Mark]

u r just a sad man u fan with nothing better to do than trying to put us down. get a life.

 

[Pat's missing Gerbil]

Ive seen every game jens has played for us this year and i, like the majority of people i go to games with are yet to be convinced by him.

you must be surrounded by a different minority. We all have opinions. I think that Jens is a big step up from the ageing seaman. he ballsed up. he also slipped in moscow when row z would have been good. keepers are easy to be judgemental about. henry missed a sitter early on in the leeds game. Vieira couldnt find a pass for 40mins of the game. we didnt play well until they forced us to. jen messed up. Do you think he is not professional enough to know that. He made an error of judgement.

Wenger is clever enough to know that if you want the best from people you have to let them be able to judge for themselves and that they will make errors in doing so. but to rob them of the ability to make decisions on the field of play is not what the present team is about. There will be mistakes as there will always be, but wenger trusts his players to be on average better than the rest and to condemn good players out of hand leads to man management like Gerrard Houllier.

Do you want that? A team that is fearfull of experiencing its best. Wenger knows how to unlock the talent in players and by expressing faith in them, and letting them grow, turns natural quality into greatness. What you express Sol, is the man management stratergy of Gerard Hooflier. I dont want a team that has ability but is never allowed to express it through fear of making a mistake. Over critism of error may be the best way of achieving that.

At present we give alot of ball back to jens to distribute. I think more that we did with seaman. it can be a dangerous stratergy.

 

[Sammer]

Lehmann is the new Grobbelar. Pure and simple. Brilliant, but prone to silliness every 10 games or so.

It happens, goalies are like drummers, inveterate f****g weirdos. Still, he's saved our butts quite a few times, and though his kicking's variable, i've rarely seen a keeper as strong on crosses, or as mentally determined.

.

He just said in an interview (Stern; large german newsmag) that Arsène deliberately bought him to act as a "sweeper-keeper" which implies, that he is taking more risks by coming out of the box than the old-fashion-style of play "Wenger encourages me to come out of the box to support our defense".

That will make him look bad once in a while - but it will save our ass in many precarious situations. Sweeping is not as spectacular as a dramatic save, but it is essential for a modern defense to be successful.

Here´s an interesting thing they wrote about Lehmann in the same article (Stern) when comparing him to his rival Oliver Kahn :

"When Kahn collects a ball in the air, he looks like a bodyguard making a protective jump to protect the president. Jens Lehmann saves, in contrary, look easy, maybe due to his physique, as if he was collecting an apple from a tree.
Lehmann is an goalkeeper actively reading and interfering in the game with sound reaction-capacity. Whereas Kahn is a reaction/shot-stopping genious with limited operating radius."

 

[Andrew]

Lehmann is the new Grobbelar. Pure and simple. Brilliant, but prone to silliness every 10 games or so.

It happens, goalies are like drummers, inveterate f****g weirdos. Still, he's saved our butts quite a few times, and though his kicking's variable, i've rarely seen a keeper as strong on crosses, or as mentally determined.

.

He just said in an interview (Stern; large german newsmag) that Arsène deliberately bought him to act as a "sweeper-keeper" which implies, that he is taking more risks by coming out of the box than the old-fashion-style of play "Wenger encourages me to come out of the box to support our defense".

That will make him look bad once in a while - but it will save our ass in many precarious situations. Sweeping is not as spectacular as a dramatic save, but it is essential for a modern defense to be successful.

Here´s an interesting thing they wrote about Lehmann in the same article (Stern) when comparing him to his rival Oliver Kahn :

"When Kahn collects a ball in the air, he looks like a bodyguard making a protective jump to protect the president. Jens Lehmann saves, in contrary, look easy, maybe due to his physique, as if he was collecting an apple from a tree.
Lehmann is an goalkeeper actively reading and interfering in the game with sound reaction-capacity. Whereas Kahn is a reaction/shot-stopping genious with limited operating radius."

LOL! Yeah, Lehmann does make most takes look relatively simple. He does pluck the ball from a dangerous situation well, take the end of Southampton for example. He occasionally does flap at crosses but when he does he either a) is being fouled with it no given (eg. away to Liverpool) or b) recovers to knock the ball behind out of play. Overall, the opposition haven't scored too many goals from crosses/headers this season which is a lot down to Jens.

 

[Stim]

Jens is solid. Tell me when you find another goalkeeper as good as him for 1.5 mill.