Football and BLM

Arsenal1508

Mods are unethical! Özil, come assist me please!
While I respect players having the right to protest against oppression, isnt Black Lives Matter taking the knee now over?

I wonder if some players that do not stand for this political corrupt organization have been forced into it.

Lets focus on football and leave protests away from pitch. Am I in the minority that feel this way?
 

Rimaal

Questionable Taste
Trusted
While I respect players having the right to protest against oppression, isnt Black Lives Matter taking the knee now over?
It'll be over when institutional racism is eradicated and people stop acting like taking the knee is a personal insult to them rather than a plea for equal human right & dignity, until then the answer is no.
 
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Iwobeast

Active Member
While I respect players having the right to protest against oppression, isnt Black Lives Matter taking the knee now over?

I wonder if some players that do not stand for this political corrupt organization have been forced into it.

Lets focus on football and leave protests away from pitch. Am I in the minority that feel this way?

I think you need to know the difference between an organization and a movement. BLM started as an organization, but last year became a worldwide movement.

When I go to BLM-protests I'm protesting against racism and discrimination, and I'm supporting the movement, I'm not rooting for BLM as an organization specifically.

Conservative propaganda has been very succesful in blurring this distinction, and convincing people BLM serves an evil, communist or extremist cause. It baffles me that people are convinced to believe an anti-racism movement is somehow dangerous.

There have been protests inside football for a while. Rainbow armbands, the anti-racism campaign of UEFA, I don't see why taking the knee is different.
 
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truth_hurts

Holding a dilemma
I think you need to know the difference between an organization and a movement. BLM started as an organization, but last year became a worldwide movement.

When I go to BLM-protests I'm protesting against racism and discrimination, and I'm supporting the movement, I'm not rooting for BLM as an organization specifically.

Conservative propaganda has been very succesful in blurring this distinction, and convincing people BLM serves an evil, communist or extremist cause. It baffles me that people are convinced to believe an anti-racism movement is somehow dangerous.

There have been protests inside football for a while. Rainbow armbands, the anti-racism campaign of UEFA, I don't see why taking the knee is different.

So no, we won't stop until racism is fully eradicated.

Interesting, well written.

I am a school teacher by trade and refuse to address BLM. Black history? Absolutely as long as the narrative isn't always oppression. Cultural learning? Yes. BLM? No way think the imagery of black oppression that it alludes to is a dangerous message to send to young people.

Of course when the George Floyd murder happened the implications of this needed to be discussed. It opened up space for some awkward but necessary conversations. I don't actually get what BLM, yes a movement, but for what?

If it's equality in football, social media abuse seems to have gone through the roof, so it's been pointless in the sport.
 

Pop Tart

Well-Known Member
Kind of feel this knee stuff is kind of taking away the real issue here which is the abuse of players of a race not just black. Tottenham Son has been abused with chants before and even though I do not think he was racist , the late claude with a silly comment stereotyping asians.

Educating kids early on about race and being different but still the same is the way to go. Maybe getting people who have been racially abused to speak to children. Maybe even reformed racists.


Don't see what taking a knee is really doing to help things.
 

El Duderino

99 Problems But A Mitch Ain't One
Trusted
The title of this thread, sounds horrible ffs :lol:

Though there needs to me more done than just taking a knee, tbh...that only draws attention to the problem, the problem still has to be fixed.

Not expecting football to fix racism worldwide, don't think that will ever be fixed sadly, but it can still do much more in it's own field.

The small of amount of non-white managers in the game, the small amount of non-white referees in the game...etc.

It doesn't help when there's people that say racismn doesn't exist in football when there's plenty of ample proof that it does.

Even after everything that has happened in the past year and with protests and players taking a larger role politically and using their reach and platform to talk about this (club captain included), Kamara was still racially abused and an EL or UCL game had to be stopped are among a few examples that shows you we have not gone far at all.

I don't know how things are in England, but in America slavery and racismn towards non-whites is something they very much like to pretend is not part of their history, despite being interwoven in how the US came to exist as a country. Same with here in Brazil. Hell, Argentina's president (a leftist) literally said yesterday that Argentines came from boats hailing from Europe and not from the jungle like Brazilians. During the years Argentina was under a Military Dictatorship, they comemorated the centenary of the army ethically cleansing the indigenous population.

You can't see all that and think football is somehow immune or insulated from it. Players weren't raised in a racismn free environment.

Players could be much more vocal about this, but the reason some fans refuse to understand why they are taking a knee in the first place are the some ones that complain that players have other interests besides football, bling and cars. So, why try and take on the angry mob?
 

Monstar-Gunn4r

Well-Known Member
Kind of feel this knee stuff is kind of taking away the real issue here which is the abuse of players of a race not just black. Tottenham Son has been abused with chants before and even though I do not think he was racist , the late claude with a silly comment stereotyping asians.

Educating kids early on about race and being different but still the same is the way to go. Maybe getting people who have been racially abused to speak to children. Maybe even reformed racists.


Don't see what taking a knee is really doing to help things.
Initially I thought it was an Americization that made its way over because of solidarity that would be clamped down on, it was an easy thing for Fifa to latch on to that wasnt controversial I guess. I think it done as much good as it can in raising awareness, but definitely think Fifa should be looking at something that might actually help.

Im sure there are many black (and other people who have been racially abused) coaches out there who would love a chance to explain how racism can affect someone to kids, I dont think the "adults" are going to be convinced too much by a show of solidarity. Im sure they could invest in football camps that do a little piece about how sh*t like that can seriously affect someone if they really gave a sh*t.

Racism doesnt just affect black people but it has definitely dragged other forms of racism in to the light as well, you improve the whole struggle there it helps with other forms as well. Like a kid sending James McClean a message saying how he hopes he watches his family and his brothers children burn alive because hes Irish, that stuff comes from parents so target the kids and show them how fkin insane that is.

Whats funny is I think that there is too little politics in the game that represent the smaller voices in a calm and organised way, like if Barca want to fly Catalan flags, why the fk not?
 

GoonerJeeves

Up The Terriers
Trusted
Controversial, but feel BLM is very gimmicky now. It's been a year and nothing has changed to really move the needle. The token knee before football really seems pointless.
I am not so sure it is all that controversial. QPR and Les Ferdinand phrased it somewhat differently, but I interpreted his view along those lines. More or less the same with Zaha.

Honestly, I am not so sure what the rest of us can do. As a middle-aged blonde man, I am about as discriminated against as Boris Johnson. I can call it out when I hear it, which I sometimes do, apart from that, you feel quite powerless. Down at my local, you know it is going to be the same blokes that start racial abuse and anti-immigration talk, "taking our jobs, islam taking over the world, time to send them back, ****ing monkeys etc". Those people will never change, not sure any of us can make them change.
 

Monstar-Gunn4r

Well-Known Member
I am not so sure it is all that controversial. QPR and Les Ferdinand phrased it somewhat differently, but I interpreted his view along those lines. More or less the same with Zaha.

Honestly, I am not so sure what the rest of us can do. As a middle-aged blonde man, I am about as discriminated against as Boris Johnson. I can call it out when I hear it, which I sometimes do, apart from that, you feel quite powerless. Down at my local, you know it is going to be the same blokes that start racial abuse and anti-immigration talk, "taking our jobs, islam taking over the world, time to send them back, ****ing monkeys etc". Those people will never change, not sure any of us can make them change.

Yeah, you need to target the kids, like the kids watching the match will be asking the parents what its about, I dont think the average racist will take the time to explain the what and the why. I imagine it will be a very different version of events that paints black people in a fairly bad light.
 

Wiggins

Active Member
What's it got to do with anywhere outside of America? They spawned the movement. Isn't it their problem? why are they trying to guilt everyone else into sharing their collective shame?

That said, I don't think BLM members understand how much they're being used and manipulated. The head lady of that organisation just bought another mansion. Does BLM actually do anything for the black community over there, or anywhere, for that matter?
 
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Batman

Bruce Wayne
While I respect players having the right to protest against oppression, isnt Black Lives Matter taking the knee now over?

I wonder if some players that do not stand for this political corrupt organization have been forced into it.

Lets focus on football and leave protests away from pitch. Am I in the minority that feel this way?
First of all, BLM is mischaracterized as being an actual organization rather than an idea that has been co-opted by some with good intention and some with bad intention. It's no different to how the KKK lists itself as a Christian organization. The difference is that nobody lambasts the entire religion due to certain unsavory elements with in it. As a minority, I personally would not be taking a knee because I find hollow gestures pointless and I certainly am not getting down on a knee which is a bit of a servile position. The messaging is definitely clunky and open to misinterpretation BUT there is a clear issue when people are more concerned with that than the actual inarguable existence of racism. When you put more effort into booing a gesture of solidarity, however flawed it may be than actually addressing the root cause of the gesture, you are really sending a pretty transparent message that you have an issue with marginalized people standing up for themselves or being stood up for. It's like if someone is hit by a car and bleeding and they're yelling for help but you're more concerned with the tone of their voice than the injury.

I don't think anyone should be forced to kneel or not kneel or put a little useless black box on their instagram or whatever the case may be but if you're tired of hearing imperfect messages about the issue of racism then do something to combat it or stop complaining. I guarantee you that the same people booing at something that's pretty harmless are the ones in Rashford's inbox calling him racial slurs. I'm sorry that the feelings of those people are inconsequential to me.
 

RunTheTrap

In midfield with Cellabos
I just wanna know why it’s so hard for some people to separate the organisation from the actual cause. First of all, why is BLM described as a “Marxist” organisation? Genuine question. Does anyone really think a bunch of multi-millionaires would be in support of a Marxist organisation?
Secondly, aren’t the players kneeling against racism rather than supporting the organisation?
 

Batman

Bruce Wayne
I just wanna know why it’s so hard for some people to separate the organisation from the actual cause. First of all, why is BLM described as a “Marxist” organisation? Genuine question. Does anyone really think a bunch of multi-millionaires would be in support of a Marxist organisation?
Secondly, aren’t the players kneeling against racism rather than supporting the organisation?
Because that's what the propaganda machine feeds them. These are people who believe that there are "Jewish space lasers" causing wildfires and that windmills give you cancer because they'll believe anything said by someone on tv who has expressed a disdain for the same social or ethnic groups that they hate. They call themselves "free thinkers" but can't expand upon any of these regurgitated talking points when challenged. They couldn't pick Karl Marx out of a lineup, can't even tell you that his name was Karl and don't have any clue what Marxism is. They just parrot what they hear in the echo chamber like they've been conditioned to do and have no interest in challenging anything that those who appeal to their hateful thoughts feed them, even when it's harmful to their own self interest. These are the same people that let multimillionaire "news" anchors with multiple ivy league degrees tell them how bad college is and then vote for politicians who work tirelessly to weaken the unions they belong to because they're against gays and abortion. Almost nothing they "believe in" or vote for actually benefits them so much as harms people they don't like. It's a combination of decades of defunding education and counting on the age old guarantee that where intelligence is lacking, tribalism can take root.
 

SevenOfClubs

Well-Known Member
What's it got to do with anywhere outside of America? They spawned the movement. Isn't it their problem? why are they trying to guilt everyone else into sharing their collective shame?

That said, I don't think BLM members understand how much they're being used and manipulated. The head lady of that organisation just bought another mansion. Does BLM actually do anything for the black community over there, or anywhere, for that matter?
If the leader is buying it with their OWN money what difference does it make. No money that was donated was used to purchase their mansion.
 

kash2

More Consistent Than Arteta
its a lovely simple way to show solidarity against racism. Just have to take a knee. Doesnt really hurt anyone does it? If nothing it reminds those watching that racism is an issue which needs being aware of.
 

Blood on the Tracks

Well-Known Member
Trusted
I can see why some see the taking a knee thing a bit gimmicky. At the same time I don't think anyone could say it's causing any real harm so I have no issue with it as long as the wider issues around it are being addressed and the taking a knee stuff isn't just being used as PR cover.

What's important I think is normalising anti-racism messages for future generations, kids are people who are still having their views on society shaped, if seeing their favourite footballer taking a knee makes them think, or ask questions then that's all good.

Your average 50 year old booing players taking a knee or having a breakdown over poppies not being allowed on the England shirt isn't going to learn or change, I think we have to be realistic about that. You're better off just writing them off for the most part.

Beyond football we have to focus on educating kids and future generations and normalising talking about issues like these, that's where the battle can be won. It'll be a long and arduous process though.
 
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rich 1990

Not A Big Believer In Diversity
What's it got to do with anywhere outside of America? They spawned the movement. Isn't it their problem? why are they trying to guilt everyone else into sharing their collective shame?

That said, I don't think BLM members understand how much they're being used and manipulated. The head lady of that organisation just bought another mansion. Does BLM actually do anything for the black community over there, or anywhere, for that matter?
I'm going to hold my tongue for obvious reasons but i'll make a few points. You're right, this has nothing to do with anyone other than America. Most of the problems with the cops is caused, imo, by their braindead gun laws. The cops have to live on the edge all the time because basically everybody has a gun. Obviously the Floyd death shouldn't have happened but there is a reason American cops are ****ed up. These incidents don't happen in any other civilised country on any comparable scale.

Then we get other problems with the knee taking. I'm sorry but you're never going to wipe out abuse fully. You'll constantly get a few idiots. I've been abused online for having contrarian views, threats of being beaten up, house set on fire etc. I won't name names though i would say Trilly was involved more than once. All this is is a bunch of multi millionaires having a bit of a whinge because some gutless, chubby teen with manic depression is saying stupid things online. You can not go round tarring the majority with the same brush. People are spending a lot of money on tv bills, match tickets to be entertained not preached too. You want to lecture? Fine. Stop taking obscene amounts of money or get on with it. The world doesn't revolve around footballers or twitter.
 

MutableEarth

Reiss' Dad
Trusted
As an anarchist who actually does lean towards Maxism, the fact that people still tie an organization like Black Lives Matter to a nefarious "communist"* agenda, when in fact, it's just a run of the mill non-profit that makes it's owners money will never not be hilarious to me.

The knee, like everything else, is symbolism. That's it. Some people believe in it, and others don't. Nonetheless, I will always side-eye the people who have a problem with it, primarily because they're so easily led into believing in the above.

*-anytime I've asked people like this what communism actually is, they always prove they don't actually know what it is :lol:
 

SA Gunner

Hates Tierney And Wants Him Sold Immediately
Trusted
The Fox News and all in its orbit propaganda has found its way far across the world. I see it in my country in the news, personal conversations, twitter, facebook, I see it here, and almost everywhere I go now.

Simply put, BLM is a ***** organisation to the right, LQBTQI rights and protections are under constant threat because conservatives do not believe black lives matter, nor for example believe in the rights and protections of LQBTQI communities.


I will not repeat what I feel has already been while stated here. Instead I will go slightly off topic and recommend you get hold of Ian Danskin's video series which thouroughly traces the roots of conservatism which has now been engulfed by the alt right. His YouTube channel is called "Innuendo Studios" and the playlist is called "The Alt-Right Playbook". It will compress about 3-6 months of reading on the topic into an hour. Check it out.
 

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