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Formation 20/21 Season

Discussion in 'Arsenal Talk' started by DennisTheLegend, Aug 12, 2020.

  1. DennisTheLegend

    DennisTheLegend Active Member

    I’ve been thinking that with Luis staying for a another season and with two young centre backs joining - Saliba and potentially Gabriel - Would you guys stick to a 3 at the back?

    Would we dare to go with an aggressive 3-3-1-3 formation?

    Martinez

    Saliba Luis Gabriel


    Bellerin Partey Tierney


    Coutinho / Willian

    Pepe Laca Auba
     
  2. Fewtch

    Fewtch Ozil at 10 And Emery Out

    I’m hoping for a Thiago Motta style 2-7-2
     
    HollandGooner likes this.
  3. krackpot

    krackpot Established Member

    Brazil Christmas tree with Willian, Coutinho behind Auba and Pepe.
     
  4. drippin

    drippin Well-Known Member

    With the rumoured CB's I think Arteta has no choice, but to play 3 at the back next season. But your formation looks like the midfield will get overrun.
     
  5. HairSprayGooners

    HairSprayGooners Al Jazeera Correspondent

    343 in big games. 433/4231 in games against weaker sides.
     
    Manberg, DasBootist and Impact like this.
  6. RunTheTrap

    RunTheTrap Well-Known Member

    I think this will be our team by the end of the transfer window.

    3-4-3
    Leno
    Saliba-Luiz-Gabriel
    AMN-Partey-Xhaka-Tierney
    Pepe-Auba-Willian

    Obviously this depends on the signings that we make but for the most part that looks like the team we will assemble. I think for the near future you stick with that and hopefully in that time Gabriel and Partey have adjusted to the league. It’s quite telling how the club seemingly put Partey ahead of a AM as their main summer signing. I think Arteta really wants to shift to a back 4 but he needs footballers he can to cover space. Mainly that triangle in front of goal. Gabriel, Saliba and Partey.

    433/4231 in the near future.
    Leno
    AMN-Saliba-Gabriel-Tierney
    Willian-Partey-Cellabos
    Pepe-Auba-New LW

    I think and I hope that when Gabriel, Saliba and Partey are comfortable in the league we can phase out Luiz and Xhaka. They’re ok for their leadership skills but they’re physical limitations will always hold the team back because you have to limit the space they’re in and they are both fairly error prone. I can see Willian playing in that 10 role or in the pocket. He’ll be getting old so like Auba I think he’ll be making that transition to central sooner than later. I don’t know where Arteta sees Saka. I can see him being a RW or a 8 in a 3 man midfield. I personally don’t see think Arteta wants him out on the LW. For the most part Arteta has been reluctant to play Auba central, even putting Eddie and Laca there but I think for the prolonging of his career it makes more sense to move Auba central then keep him out wide. That being said, a new LW has to come. Hence, the links with Joelson Fernandez are prevalent but maybe Nelson can be that answer.
     
  7. Football Manager

    Football Manager Copy & Paste Merchant

    It depends on what system would Arteta play.

    At the moment, we are forced to sit back, play counter attack/long pass to aubameyang.

    Why? Because our players had no skills at all. Auba and laca could get past players. But it’s only a walcott-esque getting past, not a ronaldinho-esque getting past.

    How can we dominate possession, slowly build up our way to the final third with these type of players?

    However, look at who are we linking with: Willian/Coutinho/Aouar....I see hope in this (despite preferring to have a younger version of them).

    What does this mean? It means Arteta has spotted our weaknesses. If we get more skillful players in, we can have a lot more dimensions/ways in attack, we can be dangerous in both Barcelona-esque slow build up and in counter attack.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2020
  8. DennisTheLegend

    DennisTheLegend Active Member

    yes it’s overly aggressive - I think Arteta would prefer a 4-3-3 with the right personnel - until then we should stick to a 3-4-3
     
  9. HairSprayGooners

    HairSprayGooners Al Jazeera Correspondent

    Partey has very good progressive stats on the ball. A very high pass rate into the final third along with being very good defensively as well. An all action midfielder which we desperately lack. He allows us to play 433.

    Some sources say Willian could operate centrally which excites me, he's 32 now but still has everything to be superb centrally. But considering Ceballos is likely to not return we need a player of that ilk.

    I like Xhaka but I think he has glaring deficiencies which shouldn't go unnoticed. Ceballos was essentially a better version of Xhaka. However I fully expect Xhaka to stay and play.

    A midfield 3 of -

    Xhaka
    Partey - Willian ​

    Gives you a bit of everything. It adds the creativity we've been sorely lacking and also adds a lot more defensive stability. Both Partey and Willian bust a gut for the team.

    HOWEVER, for me Willian is being signed to also play out wide. So we need another option in the middle. A young creative 8 would be perfect, we have nobody like that in the squad.

    Aouar, Pellegrini and Szoboszlai would be my three choices. Best value for money would be in Pellegrin or Szoboszlai for sure.

    So in short Arteta's transfer plans are going towards the 433 route. Long term plan would be to obviously have Gabriel partner Saliba. After that the only thing you need to sort out is a Lacazette replacement.
     
  10. Football Manager

    Football Manager Copy & Paste Merchant

    Defensive formation will depend on the opponent attacking numbers (for example, we may play 2 CB against 1 ST, 3 CB against 2 ST). So to me, it’s not a big deal, can always change things up in attack anyway.

    In attack, you can always push a CB up to the CM position. Or you can move a CB out wide in attack, pushing the WB into more advanced position. So through player movement, a 3 at the back formation in defending phase, can be switched into a 2 at the back in attack.

    For example, that 3-4-3 (defensive phase formation, when we don’t have the ball) we played in the FA cup final. When our CB tierney becomes a LB. And our LB Niles tuck inside to become a CM joining Xhaka and Ceballos. Our formation has become 4-3-3 (1st build up phase at the back).

    In attack (the final third phase that is close to the opponent goal), most teams play a 2-3-5 or 3-2-5 (again depending on how many opponent strikers are ready to counter). How Arteta can achieve the 2-3-5/3-2-5 from the starting 4-3-3/4-4-2/3-4-3 though player movement would be interesting.

    From the matches that we have played, Arteta seems doesn’t preferred a certain way of play. He likes to use different approaches of movement to achieve the attacking formation.

    We have had inverted fullback plus winger stay wide. We have had wide full back with winger cutting inside. But I think Arteta likes to have more ways of doing this, we just don’t have the right player now. For example, like city, CM push up to AM/ST role to join the 5 in 2-3-5. And let the inverted full back to occupy the CM role, joining the 3.

    And talking about the variety of play, because Arteta has learned from the best attacking/possession based tactical master Pep Guardiola, I’m sure Arteta would likes us to play some good possession football instead of just counter attack like what we are doing now. He would like to have both. Can’t wait to see what players he brings in from the transfer market to make this happen.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2020
    HairSprayGooners likes this.
  11. drippin

    drippin Well-Known Member

    Sorry, but what is this -ski ending here? Looks and reads funny. :lol:

    Is this some Polish fandom flavour now that Fabian-ski has been gone so long and no other Polish players here?

    Or are you suggesting skiing would help players get past defenders better?
     
  12. Football Manager

    Football Manager Copy & Paste Merchant

    You get what I mean.
    Our team lacks technicality/flair/skill moves/ball control in tight area/teamwork/intelligent play.
    We are so far behind in terms of players’ quality. Compares to 07-08 Arsenal and 09-10 Barcelona.
    Sorry, I do have a strong personal preference on how we should play (And how we shouldn’t play, I hate how Liverpool/Chelsea/Stoke played their boring hoof ball).

    If you want a less bias tactical analysis, this post of mine is a good read:
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2020
  13. drippin

    drippin Well-Known Member

    I said sorry, because I'm not currently very interested in talking/reading tactics. Just saw your post and asked.

    I haven't seen that kind of "-ski" usage anywhere so wanted to know on what it is based on, and joked a bit in addition.
     
  14. DennisTheLegend

    DennisTheLegend Active Member

    ESR back up ??
     
    GoonerJay24 likes this.
  15. HairSprayGooners

    HairSprayGooners Al Jazeera Correspondent

    ESR reminds me of a Ramsey sort of player. Would probs work with a more creative player next to him in a 3. Will deffo get minutes next season.
     
  16. Monstar-Gunn4r

    Monstar-Gunn4r Well-Known Member

    If I've to watch 3 at the back again with us trying to get the ball down the pitch without passing it through the middle I'll get sick. The 3-3-1-3 is leaving the midfield pretty much vacant we'd be ripped to shreds. If we're not going 4-3-3 I wouldn't mind seeing a 4-1-4-1, assuming we get Partey, Willian and Ceballos and somehow keep Aubemeyang


    ------------------------Auba
    Saka/Marti-----Ceballos-------Willian----Pepe/Nelson
    -------------------------Partey
    Tierney----------Saliba--Chambo/Luiz---------Bellerin
    ---------------------------Martinez

    This formation lets us rotate a lot of our younger players in and out the likes of Niles, Nelson, Nketiah and ESR can all get plenty of time without weakening the team too much. Gives us a nice base in the central areas with some good possibilities to play centrally or through wings. If we lose Auba we can use Laca up top, we would lose a bit on the counter but probably be better at buildup and breaking down teams because of his ability to hold on to the ball.
     
  17. RunTheTrap

    RunTheTrap Well-Known Member

    Nah ESR is much cleaner technically than Ramsey. He’s more of the KdB vein imo. Willock is more comparable to Ramsey.
     
    Football Manager likes this.
  18. Football Manager

    Football Manager Copy & Paste Merchant

    Exactly.

    ESR has much better ball control. Can keep possession in tight space. So he can play in a patient build up team like how Barcelona played.

    Ramsey would lost the ball if he is tightly marked by a defender. Because Ramsey does not have the skills to keep the ball in tight area, he can only try to exploit the space in behind in counter situation, to avoid being in areas crowded with opponent.

    ESR is actively involved in a lot of build up. Always makes himself available as a passing option. Enjoys passing around with teammates. And he helps to create space in the midfield, gradually moves us up the pitch.

    Ramsey detached himself from the build up play. When he get the ball, he would pass and burst up the pitch. He wouldn’t offer himself deep to pass around with teammates. He never likes to build up. Once we have the ball, he rushes everything and try to get up the pitch as quick as possible.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2020
  19. UnitedBeard

    UnitedBeard Active Member

    God. Why Willian is in your midfield three? :rofl:

    Some of these Arsenal fans don't watch Willian aye.

    The guy is a natural winger, unless if he has the same passing ability & midfield positioning as Ryan Giggs, he shouldn't be anywhere near playing in midfield.
     
  20. HairSprayGooners

    HairSprayGooners Al Jazeera Correspondent

    Reports saying he will play centrally. Has all the traits to do so plus the best chance creation per minute in the league last season behind KDB.

    He also bags a goal or assist every other game for Chelsea when playing centrally.

    He isnt a natural winger, hes just a naturally gifted footballer, a great ball carrier and passer.

    @RunTheTrap I meant more positional sense wise. He is cleaner than Ramsey but he also doesn't offer that cutting edge or incision we really need. He would make a good 8 in a 3 but he isnt the creative spark we still need.
     
    Monstar-Gunn4r likes this.

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