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Fredrik Ljungberg (Out)

Discussion in 'Transfer Rumours' started by Olofski, Feb 7, 2004.

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  1. Big_Cake

    Big_Cake New Member

    I think what they say is true to them, but not to us. They (Freddie, Thierry, Gallas) are all towards the end of their careers, and by extension want to win trophies- whats wrong with that? They don't want to wait for the team to mature because then they would be too old.
    We (fans) on the other hand can see the potential and in general have more patientence with the team. I don't think anything untoward is going on at the gunners, just transition.
     
  2. Sammer

    Sammer New Member Elite

    I think you are on the wrong track there mate.

    It´s like in management. You have to make "clean cuts" at some point. To have a player like Freddie, who has been constistently underperforming for the past 30 months, and who is on a relatively high wage, and who has potential problems accepting his personal performance decline (and the new youth concept) - just simply needs to go.
     
  3. qs

    qs New Member Elite

    Well Freddies not going to win much at WHU is he?
     
  4. Big_Cake

    Big_Cake New Member

    Well you never know, but I get your point. Excluding Freddie then, other big players have gone to big clubs with more mature squads because they don't have time to stick around, which is fair enough in some cases, we have to look at the predicament from their side as well
     
  5. Biggus

    Biggus New Member Elite

    If you read the last few pages here Web you would think you were on Arsenal.con

    Yeah I've seen those Wenger quotes, I can just imagine premiership defenders shaking.....with laughter, Time to break out the comical Wenger T's

    SERENITY NOW!
     
  6. gooner_singh

    gooner_singh New Member

    Wow I think the rubbish summer we are having, well in England anyway has really got to people on this forum, the comment about Arsenal may not finish above West ham, good grief, even Ferguson thinks we will be in the the top four and challenging for the title, I genuinely believe that to regardless of what people here think.

    I dont know if its blind faith, but I dont see the squad being any less capable in terms of ability than the other teams, depth is an issue but just at wings, then again it seems Eboue will be playing there, denilson can play there and if the squad stay healthy 4 wingers including eboue can be alright. Gooners are just being too critical and players leaving and saying things does not help.

    I am pretty sure man to man arsenal have the quality and even in depth, we are not like light years behind, look at united for instance there squad is not completety jam packed. I guess it will be hard for fans to see anything till the season actuallu starts, I think we will sign a player or two,who would then eventually become a star, probably would leave and ***** about the club, but thats the world we live in.

    Arsenal for the title
    Van persie - Golden boot
    Cesc - Player of the year
    Walcott - Young player of the year

    Maybe all of that will not happen but I support Arsenal and I have belief in the club, so come on the Arsenal and do something better with your time, people who are not sure whether WHU will finish above Arsenal.
     
  7. kel varnsen

    kel varnsen New Member Trusted

    [/quote]
    and exactly how am i passing judgment? do you, as i mentioned before, even bother to read what the post says or do you just type an answer completely oblivious to the post you're actually answering? all i said was that changing things around against the presumed weaker side is not done in a flash.

    i looked at the 30 games against the weaker sides last season(excluded the top five teams). we picked up 24 points in the first 15 and 29 points in the last 15. slightly better, but not significantly better, so it could be just a coincidence. in any case, far from good enough to challenge for the premiership.

    we also had one of our worst runs at the end of last season. against everton, west ham and newcastle we picked up one point. the match before that, we got extremely lucky against villa(diaby's fluke goal). all in all, i'd say we were still terrible inconsistent against the presumed weaker sides at the end of the season as well.
     
  8. scruzgooner

    scruzgooner New Member

    what on earth did i say that's unrealistic?
    that's fine, if you want to look at it that way. you've been the one using them as a measuring stick. are you telling me that you can't expect to see a dropoff after near-perfection? pires turned to ****, ljungberg turned to ****, bergkamp retired, vieira turned to ****, edu left (mistake, as far as i am concerned, but it has been recognized and addressed), henry played footsie with barca until he left after a half-year of injury, lauren got hurt and couldn't win back his place, cole left for greener chelski pastures...and so on.

    we want improvement in the team, but football is longer than a year on year picture. with most of the invincibles either leaving or turning to **** (and you can't tell me people here didn't slag on vieira, pires, ljungberg, or henry for their performances, their attitudes, and/or their decisions), did you expect mr. wenger to suddenly spash the cash for...who? he tried to get baps and robinho the year before we got baps, he tried for ronaldinho (as far as we know), etc. he's not been sitting on his arse, he's been assembling the team you so blithly dismiss. maybe he sees it as a progression?
    i don't agree with "going backwards". form is temporary, class is permanent. arsenal have class, and a young team growing into their place in footballing. as i said, think 1999, which is before your teams of 2001-2004 about which *you* wax lyrical.
    i've certainly seen a decline in quality, and most of it is because the invincibles aged and got hurt and started playing like ****. you think if pires (et al.) had played like he did in 2002 and 2003 in 2005 (and 2006, if he had stayed) we'd've "declined" as much? i didn't think so. and who should mr. wenger have replaced him with? and that's just one example.
    i agree he shouldn't be slated for it, but i think it's disingenuous coming from someone who played one or two decent matches in two years. :roll:
     
  9. scruzgooner

    scruzgooner New Member

    maybe because mr. wenger is working towards a future where the team didn't revolve around their declining skills? maybe mr. wenger interprets the medical reports on henry's sciatic nerve and wonders if it's not time to move him out?

    there are a thousand things they could be bitter about, and not one of them *has* to be because "something must be wrong at the club." remember, mr. wenger kept adams, keown, etc., into their dotage because they still performed, not for charity.
     
  10. scruzgooner

    scruzgooner New Member

    maybe. it can also have a galvanising effect, causing the remaining team to bind together tighter, play for each other more, etc. i've seen it go both ways, and i think, i hope, it will galvanise rather than demoralise this time.
     
  11. Clrnc

    Clrnc Well-Known Member Trusted

    once again goodbye to freddie our legend.

    [​IMG]
    looking as handsome as always.
     
  12. Lord Dula

    Lord Dula New Member Elite

    His looks are overrated in my opinion. But then again, small, dark and handsome. Well, two out of three aint bad I suppose.
     
  13. DC Gunner

    DC Gunner New Member

    I can see the point now, yet the point I was making is this: Freddie spent a long time in the club to see what is going on, had he been not good enough ONLY, he could just have said "I have had wonderful years here @ Arsenal, but It is time for me to seek new challenges", yes that would be better said, yet he did not. Why !? maybe because there is an element of truth in what he said, Henry indirectly said it, and Gallas said it [and got chastised by those waiting for him to make a fault], this can't be just a coincidence.

    This is a genuine question I pose, how many of our former players said the same thing about us as they were leaving !?
     
  14. scruzgooner

    scruzgooner New Member

    fred, thierry. maybe ali said it, too?

    who cares, really? they can say all they want; at least in fred's case he has no ground to criticise. he's past his sell-by date, didn't want to be a squad player, and felt badly about arsenal because, while mr. wenger *did* want to keep him, it was *only* as a squad player. at west ham he's probably good enough on his tired legs to be first choice. thus the bitterness, the longing for the good old days, the stated concerns for the way arsenal is going, etc., etc.

    the last one is especially funny. while last year he played a few games on a team that was a west ham goal from being out of the champions league, next year he's going to be playing for a team that was a west ham goal away from relegation. and he sees it as a step *up*?
     
  15. ronitc

    ronitc New Member

    bit hard to take the rest of his points seriously after that, lol.
     
  16. IBL

    IBL New Member Elite

    Cheers scorpion, that just made my day :lol:
     
  17. asajoseph

    asajoseph New Member Elite

    There are several issues going on here, which people seem to be confusing.

    1 - Freddie's been a nine year servant at Arsenal, and a pretty loyal one. Regardless of what he's getting paid, he did the business for us for many years - and deserves credit for that.

    2 - Freddie has not performed for two seasons. There can be no doubting it. Will his talents be missed for any other reason than he was one man standing in the way of Abou Diaby playing on the wings? I doubt that too.

    3 - Wenger obviously was prepared to sell him, but his comments in the press, and the fact that it's taken this long to find a buyer would indicate that he wasn't desperate to offload him either.

    4 - Having a pop at your former club isn't classy - but that's no reason to disregard the comments he made out of hand


    So how do you explain what Freddie said? Well, it's hard to know - but I don't accept that you can just dismiss it because it makes you feel uncomfortable. There probably are several reasons, and yes, saving face is probably part of it. But when the chips are down, if he genuinely felt that things were just drifting at Arsenal, without any real efforts being made to break back into the running for serious silverware, perhaps joining an up and coming side, who're spending big, with a chairman who's willing to invest in his side and play hardball for his team would be an attractive way to finish his playing career. After all, what was left for him at Arsenal? A few years as a bit-part player in some kind of 'project', that probably wouldn't come to fruition in the duration of his contract, might not be that attractive to him - and if he felt he'd been told that there would be investment in the side, that then did not materialise, well, I'd probably want to go somewhere where I could make a difference to something, rather than just hang around and get treated like yesterday's news.
     
  18. scruzgooner

    scruzgooner New Member

    if freddie still had the quality to be a starter, he'd still be with us. as he clearly is lacking that, mr. wenger would be happy to keep him as a squad player/backup. that's not what freddie wants, so he left the club.

    the rest of it reminds me of henry saying it was about dein. a convenient bandwagon upon which to jump, imho. if *he*'d said this, i would consider it more than sour grapes or a masking excuse, but thierry focussed on dein's leaving as the excuse.
     
  19. siddharth

    siddharth New Member

    :D
     
  20. Glovegun

    Glovegun New Member Trusted

    Great post. A lot of the old team have 'slated' us since they left, or at least trotted out poor excuses for going (Henry, Vieira, Pires, Ljungberg). For all their money and whatnot, footballers have a short shelf life. Coincidentally, the amount of time Freddie has left of top-flight football is probably how long it will take our youth project to really come to fruition - 2/3 years. I doubt he wants to put in the hard work leading up to success and then be pushed out just as the trophies come flooding in.
     
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