Gabriel Jesus: The Resurrection (Pt. 3)

[Blood on the Tracks]

The way I look at him is that he's a decent striker, you're not going to get more than 15 PL goals a season. He just doesn't have the killer instinct in front of goal.

But he's a great footballer, some of his link up play, dribbling and reading of the game is phenomenal.

The guy's going to be motivated to get into the Brazil squad for the WC so I think he'll have a lot to contribute here second half of the season, barring him being cursed with another injury, which is always a possibility at this stage of his career.

 

[Trilly]

I think it has to do with de Bruyne, Sterling, Silva, Mahrez, Gundogan and Rodri in their prime to be that dominant instead of playing with false 9.

Thanks for pointing that out, I mentally checked out as soon as I read that because it became clear to me this wasn’t somebody who was prepared to debate in good faith

Every top team, even those that have had some measure of success with a false 9 type (or more specifically an average finisher) up front has always tried to move away from that system in a bid to improve.

Even if you look at PSG who are currently an example of a team who have found success with the false9. They keep Dembele centrally for a reason, as he’s by far the most clinical of their front three and was converting like an elite striker last season and over performed his xG.

My point is that teams will always try to move on from a player who has excellent general play but sub-par finishing, even if the team is winning.

 

[Kysus]

I think it has to do with de Bruyne, Sterling, Silva, Mahrez, Gundogan and Rodri in their prime to be that dominant instead of playing with false 9.

Fielding as many technically gifted players as possible was their thing, suffocating opposition by pure control. Just like Barca used to.

Teams got more and more physical and started to expose the weaknesses of a purely technical side.
So the new way to truly dominate is to be elite at both. Dominate physically, dominate technically. Our team construction is a prime example of that.

Strikers seem to be the ones who struggle most to merge both worlds.
Players who really excel at both just don't really exist yet.
And with defenders improving so much physically the edge right now at the top level comes from having someone who is elite technically.
Old school strikers are a dying breed, in an age where even the goalkeepers are more and more technically gifted there is no space for a player you cannot pass the ball to.

 

[Kysus]

My point is that teams will always try to move on from a player who has excellent general play but sub-par finishing, even if the team is winning.

So your point is that football teams always try to improve? Holy ****, must have required some deep meditation to come up with this unique concept!

So, how about teams always trying to move on from a player who has elite finishing but sub-par general play, even if the team is winning?
Yeah no **** Sherlock, you rather have both than just one.

 

[El Duderino]

He doesn't even necessarily have to play CF imo. He's also very effective out on the LW and it would be a way of fitting him and Gyokeres together.

Jesus - Gyokeres - Saka would be an immense front 4
-----------Eze----------

If only we could fuse him and Leo…

We’d have a resting grumpy face, heroin’d eyes, grayed hair, dodgy kneed absolute peach of a footballer.

 

[FluffyDoozi]

Thanks for pointing that out, I mentally checked out as soon as I read that because it became clear to me this wasn’t somebody who was prepared to debate in good faith

Every top team, even those that have had some measure of success with a false 9 type (or more specifically an average finisher) up front has always tried to move away from that system in a bid to improve.

Even if you look at PSG who are currently an example of a team who have found success with the false9. They keep Dembele centrally for a reason, as he’s by far the most clinical of their front three and was converting like an elite striker last season and over performed his xG.

My point is that teams will always try to move on from a player who has excellent general play but sub-par finishing, even if the team is winning.

I don't have a bone in this argument but OP's point is not outlandish. Most of those teams got worse after going for an out and out CF. There's little evidence that such a player is going to make you a better team in the modern game.

Sure Haaland, Kane, Lewa would still have thrived in the prime City team but those are going to go down as legendary strikers. Academies just aren't producing them even in South America. Because Jesus is not a great finisher doesn't mean that there aren't other false nines like Alvarez or Martinez who are decent finishers (Martinez isn't the greatest of finishers tbf but he's above average). Being a false mine doesn't mean that you have to be a crap finisher. Sure if a young Haaland popped up we'd have to go for that but they are rare.

I'd argue that Saka, Trossard, Eze, Ødegaard needing to boost their numbers is a bigger issue. It would be a tall ask to win the league or Champions league without any of our attackers being in player of the season conversations

 

[Tnegs]

I think it has to do with de Bruyne, Sterling, Silva, Mahrez, Gundogan and Rodri in their prime to be that dominant instead of playing with false 9.

They also had Aguero up front during that period and he was a pure 9 and one of the best ever strikers to play in the PL. It’s simply untrue that they were playing with a false 9 before Haaland when they had Aguero as their main attacker.

 

[ThisFather]

Even though he doesnt score as much, our overall chance creation feels like it goes up whenever he plays. In the big games he is also a big factor. I wish we had him against PSG last season.

I find Arteta's praise hilarious. Even he can't hide how happy he is having him back.

 

[viktor]

Not with Jesus. He’s a talented player. But he’s a poor finisher and this time next month he will be injured. This is a Christmas fling. Don’t get emotionally attached to him

no way he will get injury again next month even after surgery and rest more than 10 month

 

[viktor]

They also had Aguero up front during that period and he was a pure 9 and one of the best ever strikers to play in the PL. It’s simply untrue that they were playing with a false 9 before Haaland when they had Aguero as their main attacker.

city using false nine when won league in 20/21 (aguero only played 14 games) and in 21/22 (aguero already left mancity)

 

[Tnegs]

city using false nine when won league in 20/21 (aguero only played 14 games) and in 21/22 (aguero already left mancity)

That’s 2 out of 7 league wins and doesn’t include their 100 point season, domestic treble and treble with the CL which were all achieved with a goalscoring 9 up front. Like @Kuroske said their decline is down to them losing the likes of De Bruyne, Sterling, David Silva and Mahrez and replacing them with inferior players.

 

[viktor]

Yeah great examples.
Liverpool who was fantastic with Firmino as False 9 signed a 90mil striker who sucked so they used Diaz, Jota and Gakpo as False 9 and won the league.
Then they signed 2 strikers, for over 200 million and guess what? They got worse again.

Moral of the story? Unless you get an absolute physical freak like Mbappe or Haaland you are better of with a "false 9" in today's game.

i think we almost success (win premier league) when using false nine 9 in 22/23 season but unfortunately our defense so poor at that time which is cost us & the level of our defense in 22/23 season nowhere near close our defense this season

 

[Jamie99]

He just needs to stay fit so that he can do great things for us in the CL where teams don't play to hack opponents' legs in the guise of being very physical. We should be able to manage without him in the rugby EPL.

 

[gasperini]

He will be the reason arsenal won't sign a forward in the next 3 transfer windows. Not because he'll be good but he won't accept to let go 265k a week. He is more likely to get injured again than scoring 3 goals

 

[2 White Thighs]

The scenes if he's the reason we win the 2025/2026 title when his absence during the 2nd half of the 2022/2023 season was one of the main reasons we crumbled like a badly made apple pie.

 

[Trilly]

I don't have a bone in this argument but OP's point is not outlandish. Most of those teams got worse after going for an out and out CF. There's little evidence that such a player is going to make you a better team in the modern game.

OP and yourself are arguing about how it worked out for those teams. I thought I made it clear I was talking about why those teams made the move in the first place.

Football is a game where your highest quality chances will end up being created in and around that small area inside the box and inbetween the goalposts. Whether it’s the eye test or any statistical model, the goal to winning games is to have a clinical player in that area. That can be a Haaland type, an Mbappe or even a reinvented Dembele. The key is that they’re clinical.

I’m not really sure why this is a debate, every team in the world is trying to do this? Mikel’s first choice CFs were Alvarez and Isak for a reason. Even going for Gyokeres shows the intention.

 

[FluffyDoozi]

OP and yourself are arguing about how it worked out for those teams. I thought I made it clear I was talking about why those teams made the move in the first place.

Football is a game where your highest quality chances will end up being created in and around that small area inside the box and inbetween the goalposts. Whether it’s the eye test or any statistical model, the goal to winning games is to have a clinical player in that area. That can be a Haaland type, an Mbappe or even a reinvented Dembele. The key is that they’re clinical.

I’m not really sure why this is a debate, every team in the world is trying to do this? Mikel’s first choice CFs were Alvarez and Isak for a reason. Even going for Gyokeres shows the intention.

Yeah no ****. Obviously you'd want a better finisher. I didn't go back to OPs posts but that's not what they or I are saying. Everyone's looking for a better finisher. That's not the point though. Your original point was about false nines. You can be a false nine who's a decent finisher. It's not binary. We'd want to move on from Jesus and Kai or Liverpool with Nunez not because they are false nine ish but because they are poor finishers.

 

[2Smokeyy]

Football is a game where your highest quality chances will end up being created in and around that small area inside the box and inbetween the goalposts. Whether it’s the eye test or any statistical model, the goal to winning games is to have a clinical player in that area. That can be a Haaland type, an Mbappe or even a reinvented Dembele. The key is that they’re clinical.

Saw a similar thing being discussed on a video during the past week as to why our other attackers (Saka, Gyokeres and co) need to improve and one or two have to step forward rather than it being all steady…



The question that was posed - has a team ever won the league without their attackers being in POTY discussions? In the PL era, I can’t recall that being the case as there’s always been a player that exploded even in recent years and turned Super Saiyan (Salah, Aguero, Haaland, Vardy, Costa/Hazard…) I know it’s still early but I think the club had the right idea when they opted for a CF it just hasn’t worked out as of yet. Still, if people are so keen on a false 9 ala Firmino then we need a talisman to step up from either flank.

Honestly, I didn’t even take any notice of the below but I was quite surprised to see how this is shaping:



Interesting.

 

[AndItsArsenal]

Yes, it is a big worry now that Foden is scoring.

 

[baccy_man]

Hopefully Jesus, can stay fit for the rest of the season when he makes his runs going forward he is unpredictable and players are not sure what way he is going to go we need that to help open teams up,
We could do with him getting on the score sheet as well.