Gabriel Martinelli: The Grift Of The Gab

[2Smokeyy]

I mean it’s fair what you’re saying. I’m not a fan of the guy he’s the Brazilian Kuyt.

Our whole LW (and CF) is pretty dire for a team that’s got as far as have in the various competitions this season. My ideal scenario is we get the level raise LW, and if you made me pick better Trossard and GM as the back up I’d probably steer towards GM. Just think his niche skillset would be more usefully for us, especially as Eze theoretically could offer us the wing fielder option there.

Knowing that we will probably be going for Gordon, who’s closer in style to GM it changes things.

Not sure Eze is worth playing on the LW especially for what Arteta is after.

The whole Gordon thing makes no sense to me, personally. I’ve said he’s a decent player and would probably do a job given he knows the PL inside out like how Mbuemo and Cunha are starting to perform and Joao Pedro is flourishing but at the price point which Newcastle have set + the issues of technical base we have when Nelli, Gyok and Noni play, what does he really solve?

For our LW especially if you want him to replace Trossard, you do have to ask a few questions:

- Can he work in tight spaces?
- Does he have the ability to alleviate pressure by holding/dribbling with the ball?
- Is he able to beat his fullback 1 vs 1 with something other than pace? Since teams sit quite deep vs us.
- Can he execute a range of passes inside, behind the defender or across the box when he beats his fullback?
- How’s his ball striking?

These are a few questions to ask especially if we’re spending 75m+ on Gordon and from what I can tell this season he’s thriving in the CL like Nelli compared to the PL whereby he’s been given a lot more space in Europe. Newcastle fans haven’t even been happy with him, I remember a month ago they were saying he hadn’t scored an open play goal in the league for over a year and with his type of profile, that should be a must.

 

[Aubamabludclat94]

He's the type of guy I think Mikel would keep around as well. Seems to be happy as a backup, whereas Trossard seems to want to be number 1.

As a backup he's fine imo. I think part of the reason he's getting more stick now is because Trossard's form has tailed off.

Yep, I would rather my LW room be Martinelli + Khrava than Trossard + Khrava. Just logistically and skillset wise, the former makes a lot more sense imo

 

[Aubamabludclat94]

Exactly. I'm not sure how we even want him as a backup. Dowman comes back from 2 month injury, immediately shows how good he is on a pitch full of farmers as a 16 y/o.

Then there's Martinelli, who has let us down for three years now but people still think of him as a good backup. The lad is done. Imagine losing Trossard to an injury and he's a starter for the remaining 8 games. We could lose the title, he's that bad.

Dowman is a world class talent. You build your team around a player with a ceiling like that. Martinelli is someone you stick in when the team is pushing against you and you need an outlet. Weird comparison. Dowman makes all our forwards look like donkeys.

 

[Aubamabludclat94]

Those numbers don't mean much to me when I just watch him as a player and see someone who really shouldn't be at a top club.

Every squad player should have something about them even if they're not good enough to be a starter, I think Noni (1v1 ability),Gyok (shooting), Merino (versatility, heading, shooting), Trossard (starting level when on form) are good examples of this.

Martinelli is fast and an okay finisher. That is it. If he has 11 goals then somebody else would too. I'm sick of him playing at the cost of a more talented player, I'm sick of him failing more often than not when a crucial opportunity falls his way. As much as I don't really rate Noni he's at least worthy of a squad place at a top side, that should be the floor when we're talking about ability and Nelli is short of that imo.


Haven't seen the Trossard news but there's a genuine risk of this happening unless somebody else steps up massively. He seems to cost us more than he gives us these days.

How does Martinelli not have something about him? He's a really good off the ball runner and counterattacking outlet. We've seen him score multiple goals just this season with exactly that skillset. Noni is fast but he's not good playing off the shoulder of a defender like Martinelli does, he doesn't have the off the ball movement. Noni wants the ball to feet. Whoever the next LW we get is, he needs to be able to have the iq and technique to maneuvre in tight spaces and offer solutions as well as some level of physicality / speed. In a situation like that, Trossard is the most obvious surplus piece as ideally we're getting a player with his same level of technique and iq + more physically gifted + younger.

 

[Aubamabludclat94]

A lot of you let your frustration of seeing a player play week in and out for us seep into your ability to accurately assess their skillset. It's why this sub has such a "grass is greener" mentality. This isn't just about Martinelli, but saying he's not even a squad level player for us considering the things he can offer is weird. He's a taylor-made player for putting on the pitch when the opposite team starts pushing us into our box looking for an equalizer or a winner. He's a really solid outlet to have on the pitch to see out games and he's shown why multiple times. Trossard is the type of player you upgrade on because, ideally, our starter LW is just a more physically gifted and younger version of him. He's also 31. Now, if we're making the case that Martinelli makes more sense to move because you can actually get a decent price for him, then yes, that is a strong arguement for him to be the next one gone.

 

[Trilly]

How does Martinelli not have something about him? He's a really good off the ball runner and counterattacking outlet. We've seen him score multiple goals just this season with exactly that skillset. Noni is fast but he's not good playing off the shoulder of a defender like Martinelli does, he doesn't have the off the ball movement. Noni wants the ball to feet. Whoever the next LW we get is, he needs to be able to have the iq and technique to maneuvre in tight spaces and offer solutions as well as some level of physicality / speed. In a situation like that, Trossard is the most obvious surplus piece as ideally we're getting a player with his same level of technique and iq + more physically gifted + younger.

being a good off the ball runner and a counter attacking outlet is scraping the barrel. That is pretty much a base attribute for any winger let alone one at a top side. Maybe you notice it more with Nelli because of how limited he is.

How’s his off the ball movement in tight spaces though? Meh. Saka’s on the other hand is elite. Trossard’s is pretty good too which is why he seems to get so many more clear cut chances than Nelli does.

lot of you let your frustration of seeing a player play week in and out for us seep into your ability to accurately assess their skillset.

Nope, he’s just a poor footballer. Your entire point for him being good enough is because he can run fast and latch onto through balls in open game states. The bar is in hell.

 

[DJ_Markstar]

People really turning their noses up at Kvara? Madness. You sign him if he's available and move Trossard on, Martinelli is a great rotation option.

 

[Rasmi]

People really turning their noses up at Kvara? Madness. You sign him if he's available and move Trossard on, Martinelli is a great rotation option.

No one is turning their nose at him. But people don’t really know him too well. He has his flaws as well. I just don’t think Arteta will like a player as selfish as he is

 

[Aubamabludclat94]

being a good off the ball runner and a counter attacking outlet is scraping the barrel. That is pretty much a base attribute for any winger let alone one at a top side. Maybe you notice it more with Nelli because of how limited he is.

How’s his off the ball movement in tight spaces though? Meh. Saka’s on the other hand is elite. Trossard’s is pretty good too which is why he seems to get so many more clear cut chances than Nelli does.



Nope, he’s just a poor footballer. Your entire point for him being good enough is because he can run fast and latch onto through balls in open game states. The bar is in hell.

I mean, the LW market is one of the weakest in world football, so yeah kinda, the bar is piss poor

 

[Rain Dance]

I’d say we need someone technical who can retain and hold the ball rather than another kick and run footballer. G/A isn’t the be-all and end-all as it will come if the right things are being done, what’s more important is the fluidity of our frontline and someone who can glue it together. Hleb would barely put up numbers but he’d share the burden with Cesc in making us play slick football.

The better footballers you have in those positions then more times than not it’ll work out plus it’s not like we can’t have two similar players who share similarities - look at Yamal and Raphinha at Barca, that’s the perfect balance.

I rather not go back to 2015/2016 where we are so reliant on 2 players for goals (Giroud & Sanchez) while the rest just play keep possession and not scoring.
Özil is wonderful when keeping possession but he lacked the goal cause CRonaldo had him under Pavlovian curse to find a pass whenever someone asks for a ball instead of scoring himself

G/A is not the be-all and end-all is true, but so does ball possession.
Ideally, we can look at Messi, a guy with G/A and slick possession, but that's a generational talent.

Don't take me wrong, I would be happy if we get Kvara, but I am also open to us getting someone who does nothing but score goals/make final cross

 

[Trilly]

I mean, the LW market is one of the weakest in world football, so yeah kinda, the bar is piss poor

I think there’s a bit of a talent dip for sure but with it being more of a team game than ever I think players with the right attributes for us won’t always be an obvious signing that’s ripping it up somewhere else.

Anyone who shows even a hint of being able to do so is immediately hoarded by one of the big clubs, we immediately see those players as not available and it fuels the illusion that there aren’t many good options out there, they are, we just don’t move for them.

Of all the talented footballers in the world I’m just not accepting that a team like Arsenal can’t do better than a winger like Martinelli. The list of LW type players that have moved since we needed to upgrade on Nelli includes guys like Semenyo, Kvara, Raphina, Rashford, Doue, Olise, Cunha and lookman off the top of my head, different levels but all guys who would start LW for us.

Obviously we don’t have a crystal ball and if the club knew how good Olise or Raphina would turn out I’m sure they would have gone for them the season before they went to Bayern and Barca but that is exactly our problem. We’ve been too risk averse in our winger dealings and now we’re stuck with crap.

 

[merciarsene]

Problem is Saka cannot be relied upon for a season. So we have madueke or dowman on the right and will need a creative technical winger on the left. Eze we hoped will be that guy but if not, then Kvara fits very well

 

[2Smokeyy]

I rather not go back to 2015/2016 where we are so reliant on 2 players for goals (Giroud & Sanchez) while the rest just play keep possession and not scoring.
Özil is wonderful when keeping possession but he lacked the goal cause CRonaldo had him under Pavlovian curse to find a pass whenever someone asks for a ball instead of scoring himself

G/A is not the be-all and end-all is true, but so does ball possession.
Ideally, we can look at Messi, a guy with G/A and slick possession, but that's a generational talent.

Don't take me wrong, I would be happy if we get Kvara, but I am also open to us getting someone who does nothing but score goals/make final cross

Doesn't have to be extremes on either side but I do think the profile matters a lot as the ball literally bounces back whenever it goes to Martinelli, Gyokeres and Madueke as there’s no technical level which just invites pressure on us.

The sample size this season already tells you we're not set up to be a quick, transitional side especially when trophies are on the line and we're mainly seeking control as well as the league shifting in a more defensive compact style which has caused all the big sides headaches. Week in, week out most teams have become a lot tighter with the space they’re affording, Pep even done it when he came to The Emirates and Chelsea have done their aggressive man to man press like four times already this season which has frustrated us and these problems point toward the same solution - players who are technically secure, can successfully dribble past a fullback 1 vs 1 or evade a press with their back to goal and operate in tight areas. I’d say having some who just scores limits us significantly.

On Kvara, I think people are judging him purely on G/A but have once again ignored the context (not you but I’d say it’s more a Twitter thing and a few on here do it) where they look at a dip and that erases what a player has previously done especially someone who has a body of work of three seasons. I said similar with Lookman llast summer with yet some talked it down with surface level points e.g. “he failed in the PL already…” and “too old” like we have Raphinha playing on the LW.

 

[fute]

Martinelli is a good player. Glad we have him.

 

[Trilly]

The only reasons we’re even having this debate is because he hit 20 GA as a 21 year old which showed insane potential.

He got paid and deservingly so and that’s why he’s here but best believe Arsenal is the best it will ever be for him.

 

[Gooner Zig]

The only reasons we’re even having this debate is because he hit 20 GA as a 21 year old which showed insane potential.

He got paid and deservingly so and that’s why he’s here but best believe Arsenal is the best it will ever be for him.

It's his end product + pace + OOP work that keeps him here. I know he's only had 1 goal in the Prem but he's still done the business in the CL and other cup comps, you need that output in your squad. Scoring goals is literally the hardest thing to do in football and this guy can score goals across a large sample size of games (just don't trust him to make the difference in a clutch moment).

Edit - the guy has a pretty unique skillset and would be/is an amazing squaddie. As much as I love what Tross has done for us, he's the one you say goodbye to this summer and get that profile in at LW. I don't see any G+A pace demons for the LW outside of Rashford/Gordon/Leao who all have their issues. I would like for us to go young and scout someone from left field with bucket loads of potential.

 

[DJ_Markstar]

It's his end product + pace + OOP work that keeps him here. I know he's only had 1 goal in the Prem but he's still done the business in the CL and other cup comps, you need that output in your squad. Scoring goals is literally the hardest thing to do in football and this guy can score goals across a large sample size of games (just don't trust him to make the difference in a clutch moment).

Edit - the guy has a pretty unique skillset and would be/is an amazing squaddie. As much as I love what Tross has done for us, he's the one you say goodbye to this summer and get that profile in at LW. I don't see any G+A pace demons for the LW outside of Rashford/Gordon/Leao who all have their issues. I would like for us to go young and scout someone from left field with bucket loads of potential.

Trossard turns 32 next season, for a winger in the current EPL he's coming to the end of his time at the top level. Imo he's already there, so we can't keep him and sell Martinelli who is 24 and has at least the physical attributes still, even if he lacks in other areas.

We can look to upgrade both over 2 summers though, don't see why that wouldn't be possible.

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

It's his end product + pace + OOP work that keeps him here. I know he's only had 1 goal in the Prem but he's still done the business in the CL and other cup comps, you need that output in your squad. Scoring goals is literally the hardest thing to do in football and this guy can score goals across a large sample size of games (just don't trust him to make the difference in a clutch moment).

Edit - the guy has a pretty unique skillset and would be/is an amazing squaddie. As much as I love what Tross has done for us, he's the one you say goodbye to this summer and get that profile in at LW. I don't see any G+A pace demons for the LW outside of Rashford/Gordon/Leao who all have their issues. I would like for us to go young and scout someone from left field with bucket loads of potential.

Maybe I'm biased but I do think Martinelli Is a good profile to have and his defensive work and general workrate Is good to have around.

I know he's struggled a bit in the league this season but he has 11 in 38 overall. It's already his second best goalscoring return for us and could still possibly end up being his best.

If someone came in with a big bid in the summer then I'd think about it, he's certainly not untouchable but I think he gets done a bit hard by on here at times.

Has he really had a worse season than Gyok, Eze or Madueke? I'd argue not, around their sort of level at least and he's got a similar squad position.

 

[Trilly]

It's his end product + pace + OOP work that keeps him here. I know he's only had 1 goal in the Prem but he's still done the business in the CL and other cup comps, you need that output in your squad. Scoring goals is literally the hardest thing to do in football and this guy can score goals across a large sample size of games (just don't trust him to make the difference in a clutch moment).

I respectfully disagree, his pace + OOP work keep him relevant as you know what you’ll get with him but I don’t think we’d be looking to sign him

Over the past almost 3 seasons he has 15 goals from an xG of 17.5 and 10 assists from an xA of 10.76. He’s not a good finisher nor is he particularly creative it’s just something he’s been living off since 2022 and he’s not particularly creative either.

He gets this ‘end product specialist’ label because he’s so limited that it’s all he can do but we’ve all seen the game and know that he doesn’t really create for himself either, his xG is a consequence of him being fast enough to run in behind and when he can’t do that he’s just a fast hard worker who puts a shift in defensively. I don’t think there’s anything unique about him.

 

[Trilly]

Has he really had a worse season than Gyok, Eze or Madueke? I'd argue not, around their sort of level at least and he's got a similar squad position.

Eze and Gyok have at least shown the ability to turn low xG chances into goals despite their struggles, Noni is a level below them imo but even he has impressive take on stats to his name.

Nelli doesn’t have any facet of attacking play you can say he’s good at. Sometimes you get players who steal a living at top clubs due to contractual reasons, circumstances and that club having bigger fish to fry. He’s so mid.