General Hale End Talk

[MutableEarth]

Linked to Frankfurt now as well. Needs to leave Arsenal to get a look into professional football but not sure Frankfurt is the right move, both LB and LCB look locked in for the foreseeable

What do you reckon is his ceiling?

Reckon he could be a decent ball-playing CB if he stays there but I think he has more of a future as a powerful 8 who can dribble and pass as well as play 6 when necessary.

 

[NieThePiet]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1880335667991101815

Transfer from Heaven to Frankfurt is pretty close.

 

[jones]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1880335667991101815

Transfer from Heaven to Frankfurt is pretty close.

He was in the Frankfurt ground for the win against Dortmund, seems a done deal. Haven't watched him but @MutableEarth rates him, not sure what his perspective would be but Brown and Collins looked like they were years away from playing any role in the first team just last summer and they're starters now.

 

[MutableEarth]

I think we do want to keep him but there are probably assurances he wants that we cannot guarantee him. I actually have a theory that he's not entirely pleased with his position change to CB but I have nothing to back that up and for all we know he probably likes CB. But he is a midfield (and was a pretty good one at youth level) so I think he may change position back to midfield if he leaves again. I'd be surprised if he went to City as they have Dada-Mascoll (who I would love here at Arsenal) so I think a profile of his type would be very much loved abroad.

The path to our first team is really only difficult because Arteta is not likely to rely on the youngsters unless they're noticeably better than the first team competition playing ahead of them (see Lewis-Skelly). The other element is where the gaps exist. Heaven's position change occurs in a position where we have 2 of the best players in their position in the country. It's pretty hard for defenders to make that step up usually anyway. Midfield is also pretty stacked now although that's due for a switch up this Summer most likely.

We're unfortunate that at a time when the attack isn't at it's strongest we also don't have strong U21 talent currently waiting in the wings. I did really like Osman Kamara but he's definitely stalled in his development of late. As said previous, the really, really good prospects at the club right now outside of Nwaneri/Lewis-Skelly are mostly 1st year and below - with 2nd year guys like Heaven/Nichols/etc as the 2nd tier guys. And of the 2nd tiers, their positions are mostly in defence or central midfield - all areas where there's still a fair bit of first team talent largely.

If we look at the recent Flamengo Cup winning squad, all of them are U17.

Kyran Thompson - U15
Brando Bailey-Joseph - U16
Louis Zecevic-John - 1st year
Ceadach O'Neill - 1st year
Marley Frohock - U16
Teshaun Murisa - U16
Maalik Haashi - U16

That's just a few of the standouts - didn't even mention the defenders mostly. Add Max Dowman (U15) and Andre Harriman-Annous (1st year) and that's a pretty strong array of talents. A lot can happen in a few years so I expect that development won't be linear but those are the ones to potentially look forward to and that'll probably be a couple seasons from now, if that.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1882567906514575674

So my hunch may have been correct. Heaven isn't really taking to CB that well and wants to go back to midfield. Figured this was the case as he's talented but always looked slightly uncomfortable there. Think he has great future as a 6/8 tbh.

 

[MutableEarth]

He was in the Frankfurt ground for the win against Dortmund, seems a done deal. Haven't watched him but @MutableEarth rates him, not sure what his perspective would be but Brown and Collins looked like they were years away from playing any role in the first team just last summer and they're starters now.

Think he'll be a nice pickup. Tall, powerful, good dribbler and passer. Could be a great B2B in the future.

 

[Rattata]

Pretty embarassing from the club that we are losing a 2nd highly rated young player within 6 months to United additionally to other promising youngsters we lost last summer. Why are we are struggling so much with this compared to the other big clubs? The idea of an easier pathway doesn't even make sense unless your brain can only think: "Arsenal good, United bad = easier for youngsters to breakthrough".

But that isn't even the case. Chido still hasn't played a single minute of U21 football at United. At Arsenal he would've featured multiple times for the U21 at this point. Besides that United paid 110m on young strikers in the last 18 months. How is he going to get chances there any time soon?

Now with Heaven you got a similiar situation. Kiwior is pretty likely to leave so a spot as the backup for Gabriel opens up. At United you got 4 CBs that cost over 50m. Just last summer they paid over 100m for new CBs. Even if you argue that they want to play him as a DM United signed Ugarte recently for 50m and still got Mainoo.

What's actually going on at the academy?

- Highly rated youngsters leaving left and right. Why can the other big 6 clubs sign their youngster on long contracts until they are 20-22 year old while we are losing so many talented 17-18 olds?
- Poor results in every competition for both the U21 and U18
- Successful loans uhm where?

Honestly Nwaneri and MLS being super talents has distracted Arsenal fans about how poor the academy is actually run at the moment.

 

[scytheavatar]

Pretty embarassing from the club that we are losing a 2nd highly rated young player within 6 months to United additionally to other promising youngsters we lost last summer. Why are we are struggling so much with this compared to the other big clubs? The idea of an easier pathway doesn't even make sense unless your brain can only think: "Arsenal good, United bad = easier for youngsters to breakthrough".

But that isn't even the case. Chido still hasn't played a single minute of U21 football at United. At Arsenal he would've featured multiple times for the U21 at this point. Besides that United paid 110m on young strikers in the last 18 months. How is he going to get chances there any time soon?

Now with Heaven you got a similiar situation. Kiwior is pretty likely to leave so a spot as the backup for Gabriel opens up. At United you got 4 CBs that cost over 50m. Just last summer they paid over 100m for new CBs. Even if you argue that they want to play him as a DM United signed Ugarte recently for 50m and still got Mainoo.

What's actually going on at the academy?

- Highly rated youngsters leaving left and right. Why can the other big 6 clubs sign their youngster on long contracts until they are 20-22 year old while we are losing so many talented 17-18 olds?
- Poor results in every competition for both the U21 and U18
- Successful loans uhm where?

Honestly Nwaneri and MLS being super talents has distracted Arsenal fans about how poor the academy is actually run at the moment.

Chido is massively overrated by many people due to his number of goals scored, not saying he wouldn't be in our U21 if he stayed with us but rushing him to U21 is pointless at his current age and in fact could be detrimental. I would argue we already messed up by promoting Harriman-Annous too early.

Chido is not some Rooney and he clearly has some development to do before he is ready for higher level football.

 

[SA Gunner]

Disappointing to see this news break, Im hoping we can hold on to Heaven.

Who's next then for United to target? Salah-Eddine? Dowman? Come on now, lets keep the youngsters together pleases.

 

[avenellroad]

Don’t really rate Heaven, way too error prone even if he is a young player.

Other clubs won’t be targeting the players who actually have a chance of breaking through here like MLS, Nwaneri and Dowman in future years. They’ll be going after the players that aren’t connected to the club or don’t really have much of a future here.

 

[BBF]

He's young enough to have multiple options, and that's just the nature of youth football. What is this about visiting United though? And during a game? This type of advice (or lack of) is detrimental to the player and the club.

 

[lomekian]

Pretty embarassing from the club that we are losing a 2nd highly rated young player within 6 months to United additionally to other promising youngsters we lost last summer. Why are we are struggling so much with this compared to the other big clubs? The idea of an easier pathway doesn't even make sense unless your brain can only think: "Arsenal good, United bad = easier for youngsters to breakthrough".

But that isn't even the case. Chido still hasn't played a single minute of U21 football at United. At Arsenal he would've featured multiple times for the U21 at this point. Besides that United paid 110m on young strikers in the last 18 months. How is he going to get chances there any time soon?

Now with Heaven you got a similiar situation. Kiwior is pretty likely to leave so a spot as the backup for Gabriel opens up. At United you got 4 CBs that cost over 50m. Just last summer they paid over 100m for new CBs. Even if you argue that they want to play him as a DM United signed Ugarte recently for 50m and still got Mainoo.

What's actually going on at the academy?

- Highly rated youngsters leaving left and right. Why can the other big 6 clubs sign their youngster on long contracts until they are 20-22 year old while we are losing so many talented 17-18 olds?
- Poor results in every competition for both the U21 and U18
- Successful loans uhm where?

Honestly Nwaneri and MLS being super talents has distracted Arsenal fans about how poor the academy is actually run at the moment.

Hard to say no when Utd are offering 30k a week to a 16 year old with no experience above u18 level. His pathway was far clearer here, but by going to Utd he's £250k AFTER TAX better off each year. Lifechanging for a kid.

As for Heaven - I don't think he has the stamina/energy for top level midfield.

 

[StefanB]

He's young enough to have multiple options, and that's just the nature of youth football. What is this about visiting United though? And during a game? This type of advice (or lack of) is detrimental to the player and the club.

In my view he doesn't seem to be the most mature, and seems to be listening to some bad management advice. He's already got a taste of first team football for Arsenal having debuted in the EFL in october at only 18 years old. There's not many top clubs that are willing to give 18 year old centrebacks games, and going to Manchester United who are buying tons of players instead of building from the ground up is just moronic imho.

Like Chido Obi-Martin who left us for Manure: He's still playing U18 football for them, but for us he would've already progressed into U21's and probably would've made the bench/squad for us at the moment if he was still having such a purple patch.

I could understand Heaven's decision if he was 21-22 and still not getting any game time, but having just turned 18 in september I'd say this is foolish - but atleast he'll be getting a decent payraise in Manchester.

 

[Yousif Arsenal]

look like Heaven got attracted by good salary. the fact he want utd ahead of Frankfurt who he gonna get more chances to play 1st team football tell you everything.

poor decision because he won't get chances at Arsenal and Utd being center back is difficult to make it to first team from acadamy because it's demanding position and any mini mistake you gonna get called not good enough. Heaven should just check the history when the last time utd had acadamy defender that started for them? as much i want to remember i think the number is zero. same with Arsenal.

 

[MutableEarth]

Disappointing to see this news break, Im hoping we can hold on to Heaven.

Who's next then for United to target? Salah-Eddine? Dowman? Come on now, lets keep the youngsters together pleases.

Salah-Eddine defo going abroad as he still hasn't signed a contract.

look like Heaven got attracted by good salary. the fact he want utd ahead of Frankfurt who he gonna get more chances to play 1st team football tell you everything.

poor decision because he won't get chances at Arsenal and Utd being center back is difficult to make it to first team from acadamy because it's demanding position and any mini mistake you gonna get called not good enough. Heaven should just check the history when the last time utd had acadamy defender that started for them? as much i want to remember i think the number is zero. same with Arsenal.

Yeah United is a weird one but the money must be good. Maybe he'll get a good loan. United also have decent midfielders in their setup so don't know if he's got pathway there. There's now indication that he wants to develop in midfield again so that possibly factors in.

Don’t really rate Heaven, way too error prone even if he is a young player.

Other clubs won’t be targeting the players who actually have a chance of breaking through here like MLS, Nwaneri and Dowman in future years. They’ll be going after the players that aren’t connected to the club or don’t really have much of a future here.

Oh trust me, teams are going to be trying their very best to get Dowman. The way we're fast tracking him suggests we'll fight them off. But I think Heaven can see the writing on the wall and is not going to wait until he's a PL2 veteran with no loans .

 

[bergholt]

What's actually going on at the academy?

- Highly rated youngsters leaving left and right. Why can the other big 6 clubs sign their youngster on long contracts until they are 20-22 year old while we are losing so many talented 17-18 olds?
- Poor results in every competition for both the U21 and U18
- Successful loans uhm where?

Honestly Nwaneri and MLS being super talents has distracted Arsenal fans about how poor the academy is actually run at the moment.

Have we lost many that went on to bigger and better things though?

Off the top of my head I can't think of many recently. Omari seems to be going pretty well, Biereth maybe though he was only here a couple of years. Nathan Tella and Donyell Malen, I guess?

Then you're back to guys like Gnabry but that's ancient history at this point.

 

[TH14shahriar]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1883118751731859940

 

[Rattata]

Have we lost many that went on to bigger and better things though?

Off the top of my head I can't think of many recently. Omari seems to be going pretty well, Biereth maybe though he was only here a couple of years. Nathan Tella and Donyell Malen, I guess?

Then you're back to guys like Gnabry but that's ancient history at this point.

It's more about losing them for basically free where Chelsea, City and Liverpool generate ridiculous fees at times for their young players that barely played any games at pro level. These players go straight from the U21 to clubs in europe for +10m. Biereth comes to mind as one of the few young players that hasn't played for our first team where we actually made some decent money on.

 

[bergholt]

It's more about losing them for basically free where Chelsea, City and Liverpool generate ridiculous fees at times for their young players that barely played any games at pro level. These players go straight from the U21 to clubs in europe for +10m. Biereth comes to mind as one of the few young players that hasn't played for our first team where we actually made some decent money on.

Yeah fair but considering we don't even know how to sell first teamers I guess I'm not surprised

 

[9jagooner]

Found this gem.
This is why I struggle to rate a lot of our current youth players.
I mean, look at the quality of football on display yet not many of these players went on to make it in top, top football

 

[bergholt]

Found this gem.
This is why I struggle to rate a lot of our current youth players.
I mean, look at the quality of football on display yet not many of these players went on to make it in top, top football

Damn just about all of those players have retired now

I feel old