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General Reserves Talk

  • Thread starter M+D
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Afro Mugo

Active Member
Do we need a Chido Martin thread in the transfer forum? Getting concerned about all the noise spewing about him leaving
Im more relaxed about Chido than I was with Nwaneri. Before his new agents , all his comments pointed to him staying; he mentioned how he really doesn't want to move too soon , as his already started making friends here etc. We know how the Balogun and Saka contract talks went; and this will always be the case . So far the only reason mentioned for him wanting to leave is that he can sign a pro contract in the rest of Europe right now . He's turning 17 in November so I doubt 5-6 months is such a huge difference to cause him to move. Weirdly enough his pathway is clearer at Arsenal than at BVB and Bayern (the only clubs he has being linked with). BVB have Fulkrug , are signing Guirhassy and have the u17 world cup golden boy Paris Brunner in their ranks , not to mention Moukoko. Bayern have Kane , Tel + have made some striker signings recently who are aged 17, 18. Biereth and Nketiah are leaving and he has no one ahead of him ; and we still have Havertz as our main striker.
 

MutableEarth

Reiss' Dad
Trusted ⭐

Doesn't surprise me tbh. Ayden Heaven is one of our strongest scholars, and quite a unique profile but he's another left footed midfielder in a sea of very talented left footed midfielders. Having to play CB because of his height is probably not the most ideal use of his abilities as a player. I could see him being a very good 6/8 but that'll probably be somewhere else if Lewis-Skelly continues his development at 6 and the two foremost talents at the club in Nwaneri and the very young Dowman are both 8/10 types who can occupy the other midfield positions. It's a sticky one but I have a feeling we'll lose Heaven aswell.

His height is a big advantage IMO but I have a feeling that with talents like Ife Ibrahim and Theo Julienne also being a factor over the next year or so, we might absorb such a loss even at youth level. CBs still need bolstering to an extent but we've gotten better in that department too.

I've seen that we're still linked with Rio Nguhoma from Chelsea aswell. He's a very, very good talent. I'm intrigued by where he will end up, and if it's here what he will be developed to become in terms of profile/role/position. I've still yet to see more of Brando Bailey-Joseph and he's considered to be a top talent aswell.
 

Rasmi

Negative Nancy

Country: England

Doesn't surprise me tbh. Ayden Heaven is one of our strongest scholars, and quite a unique profile but he's another left footed midfielder in a sea of very talented left footed midfielders. Having to play CB because of his height is probably not the most ideal use of his abilities as a player. I could see him being a very good 6/8 but that'll probably be somewhere else if Lewis-Skelly continues his development at 6 and the two foremost talents at the club in Nwaneri and the very young Dowman are both 8/10 types who can occupy the other midfield positions. It's a sticky one but I have a feeling we'll lose Heaven aswell.

His height is a big advantage IMO but I have a feeling that with talents like Ife Ibrahim and Theo Julienne also being a factor over the next year or so, we might absorb such a loss even at youth level. CBs still need bolstering to an extent but we've gotten better in that department too.

I've seen that we're still linked with Rio Nguhoma from Chelsea aswell. He's a very, very good talent. I'm intrigued by where he will end up, and if it's here what he will be developed to become in terms of profile/role/position. I've still yet to see more of Brando Bailey-Joseph and he's considered to be a top talent aswell.
That kid we got from wolves as CB is he any good? Or was he signed because he looks like Walters and was ideal replacement
 

MutableEarth

Reiss' Dad
Trusted ⭐

Rattata

Well-Known Member
Heaven the next player with rumors of leaving. Something seriously going wrong at the academy.

If the staff can't convince players that staying is the right decision for their development then what are they payed for? Why can the other big clubs loan players for years and then sell them while we lose most of our youngsters for free?
 

MutableEarth

Reiss' Dad
Trusted ⭐
Heaven the next player with rumors of leaving. Something seriously going wrong at the academy.

If the staff can't convince players that staying is the right decision for their development then what are they payed for? Why can the other big clubs loan players for years and then sell them while we lose most of our youngsters for free?
It's been said before but Arsenal are at a stage of our cycle where the 1st team is really good again. Not perfect, but we are legitimate threats to Man City and Liverpool who have been the dominant teams of the last 5 years. This has also coincided with a time where there's a microscope on all young talents and a real willingness from said young talents to play first team football in order to build their stock. They're not satisfied with outings on the bench every week with 0 minutes and a stagnating PL2 career until they're 20 with no 1st team experience.

It becomes really hard to convince those players that they should be staying at Arsenal when Arsenal cannot even offer them decent loans half the time. We aren't doing a terrible job but we don't have the pathway to the 1st team we had because the team isn't sh*t anymore. We also don't seem to be providing clarity on the development path as it pertains to playing football. This is a consequence of the current environment surrounding young players as well as Arsenal just not having room for them in the team unless they're basically Omega level talents. For Arsenal, we're pretty lucky to have 4 of them currently in Nwaneri, Lewis-Skelly, Obi and (albeit young) Dowman, and even then, there's 0 guarantees bar Nwaneri most likely. But those are the 4 you look at that could actually dent the first team. The others, they have to work that little bit harder.

Ayden Heaven in particular is a talent who, while he has some unique advantages, is a profile we already have a lot of. A left footed technical midfielder. We're stacked with those. He's fortunate to be able to play as a defender and I think he'll most likely level out as a #6, but while I'd love to see him ascend at Arsenal, his way is already pretty clogged unless he transitions full time to CB and I don't think it's the best use of his abilities, even though he's performed really well there lately.
 

lomekian

Essays are my thing
Heaven the next player with rumors of leaving. Something seriously going wrong at the academy.

If the staff can't convince players that staying is the right decision for their development then what are they payed for? Why can the other big clubs loan players for years and then sell them while we lose most of our youngsters for free?
Given that this just after a post about Chelsea losing their brightest prospect, its fair to point out that this is now affecting every club. Players are now demanding pathways at 14-15 not 20-21, and if you have a good, young first team squad, many players or their agents are going to looking elsewhere. Of course, many of the other clubs are selling the kids snake oil about better pathways, but when you have clubs like Brighton and Dortmund where fostering then flogging youth is their entire operational model, its hard to argue with.

Re other clubs, many of them throw more money at the kids earlier - (or in City/Chelsea's cases buy their parents houses or path them under the table). Its also about track record. Youngsters at City know they will get the chance to move on for ££ early on because of the City brand. At Liverpool under klopp they knew they'd get a chance as his aging first team couldn't manage 4 competitions. At a number of other clubs, there is no real aspiration to win trophies, so its a better environment with more opportunities.

People dunk on Arteta, but Sp**s, Utd, Chelsea all have the same problems
 

Rasmi

Negative Nancy

Country: England
Given that this just after a post about Chelsea losing their brightest prospect, its fair to point out that this is now affecting every club. Players are now demanding pathways at 14-15 not 20-21, and if you have a good, young first team squad, many players or their agents are going to looking elsewhere. Of course, many of the other clubs are selling the kids snake oil about better pathways, but when you have clubs like Brighton and Dortmund where fostering then flogging youth is their entire operational model, its hard to argue with.

Re other clubs, many of them throw more money at the kids earlier - (or in City/Chelsea's cases buy their parents houses or path them under the table). Its also about track record. Youngsters at City know they will get the chance to move on for ££ early on because of the City brand. At Liverpool under klopp they knew they'd get a chance as his aging first team couldn't manage 4 competitions. At a number of other clubs, there is no real aspiration to win trophies, so its a better environment with more opportunities.

People dunk on Arteta, but Sp**s, Utd, Chelsea all have the same problems
Overall it’s good for the game with not the big clubs hoarding all the young talents. If by 16/17 another club offers you a better path to first team football. You have to take it
 

MutableEarth

Reiss' Dad
Trusted ⭐
Overall it’s good for the game with not the big clubs hoarding all the young talents. If by 16/17 another club offers you a better path to first team football. You have to take it
TBF Big teams will just spin the block on these players half the time anyway if they prove themselves. If Omari Hutchinson shows out for the next 2 years, don't be surprised if he ends up back at a Liverpool or (god forbid) a Spuds.

Given that this just after a post about Chelsea losing their brightest prospect, its fair to point out that this is now affecting every club. Players are now demanding pathways at 14-15 not 20-21, and if you have a good, young first team squad, many players or their agents are going to looking elsewhere. Of course, many of the other clubs are selling the kids snake oil about better pathways, but when you have clubs like Brighton and Dortmund where fostering then flogging youth is their entire operational model, its hard to argue with.

Re other clubs, many of them throw more money at the kids earlier - (or in City/Chelsea's cases buy their parents houses or path them under the table). Its also about track record. Youngsters at City know they will get the chance to move on for ££ early on because of the City brand. At Liverpool under klopp they knew they'd get a chance as his aging first team couldn't manage 4 competitions. At a number of other clubs, there is no real aspiration to win trophies, so its a better environment with more opportunities.

People dunk on Arteta, but Sp**s, Utd, Chelsea all have the same problems
Right. Chelsea are haemorrhaging talents at the moment, we're not the only ones losing talents.
 

lomekian

Essays are my thing
It's been said before but Arsenal are at a stage of our cycle where the 1st team is really good again. Not perfect, but we are legitimate threats to Man City and Liverpool who have been the dominant teams of the last 5 years. This has also coincided with a time where there's a microscope on all young talents and a real willingness from said young talents to play first team football in order to build their stock. They're not satisfied with outings on the bench every week with 0 minutes and a stagnating PL2 career until they're 20 with no 1st team experience.

It becomes really hard to convince those players that they should be staying at Arsenal when Arsenal cannot even offer them decent loans half the time. We aren't doing a terrible job but we don't have the pathway to the 1st team we had because the team isn't sh*t anymore. We also don't seem to be providing clarity on the development path as it pertains to playing football. This is a consequence of the current environment surrounding young players as well as Arsenal just not having room for them in the team unless they're basically Omega level talents. For Arsenal, we're pretty lucky to have 4 of them currently in Nwaneri, Lewis-Skelly, Obi and (albeit young) Dowman, and even then, there's 0 guarantees bar Nwaneri most likely. But those are the 4 you look at that could actually dent the first team. The others, they have to work that little bit harder.

Ayden Heaven in particular is a talent who, while he has some unique advantages, is a profile we already have a lot of. A left footed technical midfielder. We're stacked with those. He's fortunate to be able to play as a defender and I think he'll most likely level out as a #6, but while I'd love to see him ascend at Arsenal, his way is already pretty clogged unless he transitions full time to CB and I don't think it's the best use of his abilities, even though he's performed really well there lately.
Excellent post, and I agree with the difficulty re Ayden Heaven.

Ultimately, under Arteta the emphasis in coaching down the levels has been an increased focus on positional and tactical flexibility at the ages where a technical foundation should largely be in place - this makes perfect sense, both due to Arteta's tactical model, but also to maximise the potential opportunity for youngsters. Heaven has looked good at times and struggled badly at others at u21 level (albeit not in his preferred role, and he got better towards the season's end), so I don't think the club can 'bet' too much in terms of preserving a pathway. The difficulty is, he probably needs another year before he's ready for a loan spell at any level of significance, but hsi contract runs out in a year. Going to be tricky for the club to convince him this is where his future lies.
 

lomekian

Essays are my thing
Overall it’s good for the game with not the big clubs hoarding all the young talents. If by 16/17 another club offers you a better path to first team football. You have to take it
Yeah - the collision of PSR, EPL HG quotas, Brexit impacts on contract signings and the academy model is not really providing a happy balance - the more kids lose young players for nothing with such paltry compensation down the line, the more clubs will be reticent about youth investment.

Its a joke that a player can spend between the ages of 5 and 18 at a big club's academy, run down their contract and move for free to another club in the UK, who can immediately send them on loan for 6 months and then flog them for 10-30m as some kind of PSR dodge, where the developing club gets peanuts as a 'development fee' and no PSR benefit. At least in Hutchinson's case we agreed a deal to guarantee a sell on.
 

Country: Iceland
I think because smaller teams have more money now they don't need to loan talents from top clubs. It means that for the top clubs they can't offer good loans at top teams for players to develop.

Cozier-Dubbery probably our best-performing talent in last couple of years had nothing more to do with us and he has Saka in front of him who is only 22. Probably the best we could offer was a loan at the bottom Championship club but you see now team like Brighton is ready to take a chance on him.
 

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