George Graham: Legend?

[Gooner416]

It's a disservice to not have a George Graham thread under Arsenal History. He's a bit of a forgotten man, especially for my generation who were brought up on Wenger. I'm curious what everyone's thoughts are regarding GG. Is he an Arsenal legend or not?

Here's a quick highlight of some key accomplishments/highlights:

• 1971 double as a player, swears he had the goal and not Eddie Kelly against Liverpool in the FA cup.
• 1987 league cup winner - first trophy since 79 FA cup.
• Dismantled Liverpool monopoly - won first league title since 71' in 1989 at Anfield.
• Almost had the first invincible Arsenal squad.
• Signed Ian Wright
• 92/93 - first side to win both league cup & FA cup.
• Brought in key figures of our backline that Wenger benefitted from (Adams, Winterburn, Dixon, Bould etc.) Also signed Seaman.
• Turned down Liverpool when Dalglish resigned.
• 1-0 to the Arsenal because of GG.

Some cons:

• Managed Sp*rs.
• Forced out Rocastle.
• Club culture started to dwindle.
• Humiliating sacking.
• Entertainment value?

Don't think bungs should be listed as a con as everyone was doing it. I mean Big Sam was doing it a few years ago ffs. We can debate on this.

Anyway, thoughts? I'm going with yes.

 

[Macho]

It's the stint at Sp**s that done it. Once you go there after Arsenal regardless of the stage of your career, you become a forgotten man dem the rules.

The bungs, nobody really cares lets be honest. Slightly before my time, very complicated legacy, I'd say yes though.

 

[Entropics]

For me it's a yes, these days everyone not currently associated with the club looks a bit more legendary though

 

[Rex Stone]

It's the stint at Sp**s that done it. Once you go there after Arsenal regardless of the stage of your career, you become a forgotten man dem the rules.

The bungs, nobody really cares lets be honest. Slightly before my time, very complicated legacy, I'd say yes though.

I think it depends tbh.

Packers fans still love Brett Favre even after he played for the Vikings. Ajax fans obviously loved Cruyff even though he spent his last season winning the league with an even more intense rival than Sp**s for us.

I admit it counts against Graham that he pushed for a move back to North London even if it was under the guise of “family reasons”.

Still though he brought Arsenal one of the most famous league wins in it’s history and even won a second.

Think you just have to remember the good times. I’m sure in 10 years Chelsea fans will remember the league titles Mourinho bought them rather than the flame outs and managing Utd and Sp**s.

 

[Melquiades]

Obviously yes.

The 15 years before he arrived, the team had an average league finish of 8th (better than 5th only twice) and had a single FA Cup.

In 9 years as manager, he wins 2 league titles and 6 major trophies.

Wenger took the team to another level, but Graham is the manager who returned the team to a place of prominence after 15 years of mediocrity and built the foundation for what happened later.

And so much of the valued recent history and so many club legends are tied to him. He's the manager who put Adams, Rocastle (even if he badly sold him later), Merson into starring roles. Bought Seaman, Wright, and the entire 1990s defensive backline. 1-0 to the Arsenal.

Plus his accomplishments as a player.

As for the Sp**s stuff, who cares. He didn't spurn Arsenal for Sp**s. Holding grudges about this kind of stuff is the realm of petty jealous Sp**s supporters. If they want to take our sloppy seconds years later, I don't really care.

Graham also played during an era where things were very different - multiple players were sold directly between Sp**s and Arsenal in the 60s-70s-80s. Pat Jennings went back and forth multiple times. The YOU ABSOLUTELY CANNOT PLAY FOR THE OTHER GUYS thing really only took hold in force post-Sol Campbell. It wasn't a loved thing to do back in the day, but it didn't hold the stigma it does today.

 

[GDeep™]

Nah. Can’t really be a legend after brown envelope business, then he joined Sp**s too.

An important figure, yeah.

 

[lamby22]

Yes.

Won us the league after we had a 2 point deduction. Won us the league at Anfield. We've won 2 European trophies in our history - he was involved in both, one as a player and one as a manager.

Trophywise he's also Sp**s joint most successful manager in the last 23 years which I guess would make him a Sp**s legend as well

 

[<<reed>>]

who dis

 

[Slug457]

Went to Sp**s which soured things but anyone who wins us multiple titles is a legend to me. Think alot of the OG Graham gang tried to claim he is better than Wenger/or were hostile to Wenger during the WOB days weirdly, part of the "getting our Arsenal back" was a return of the 1 - 0 to the Arsenal Grahamball, which sort of created a animosity towards him, which is undeserved.

 

[Gooner416]

Nah. Can’t really be a legend after brown envelope business, then he joined Sp**s too.

An important figure, yeah.

Everyone was partaking in bungs mate. He was scapegoated by the FA.

It's more the Sp**s ting for me.

 

[Blankety Blank]

Pros:
Took Arsenal very much back to the big time after many wilderness years. Won both domestic cups a European trophy & the league. Promoted young players & put together the legendary back 5 that was the cornerstone of Wenger's early success.

Cons:
Played pragmatic football & liked a brown envelope.

He is definitely legendary & in the top 5 of all time Arsenal managers.

He certainly wasn't revolutionary & groundbreaking like Wenger.

However I doubt Arsène would have been as successful without the foundations GG laid.

 

[beck]

Double winning / fairs cup winning player
twice league/ fa cup and league cup/ cup winners cup winning manager
coarse he is

 

[Tom Mix]

Definite legend.

First trophy in nearly a decade. First league win in 16 years. Made us into a feared team with the Arsenal back four - hell, that even made us film legends in "The Full Monty"!!! Repeated the win, the year of the two domestic cups too.

Architect of 1-0 to the Arsenal. Brought many, many young players into the team and made them into top players. We were not loved, but we were respected, even feared. We weren't loved before and even in the best years of Wengerball many still hated us so you can't win there.

Ended the Liverpool monopoly and put them into a thirty year "crisis". Stood toe-to-toe with a financial behemoth and mostly bested them.

And here's a big one - one of only TWO Arsenal managers to have won a European trophy. Not even St Arsène managed that and he had far more resources and nearly three times as many seasons.

The North London thing? We didn't want him, he needed a job. Never disrespected us. The bungs? Stupid. But everyone was at it, he was stupid because he was caught.

Arsène Wenger (another legend of course) wouldn't have hit the ground running without the Graham foundations. So yeah, legend. You don't think so? You're not a real Arsenal fan. You don't know the frustration of not winning and didn't experience the beauty of "Thomas!!! It's up for grabs NOW!!!"

God bless George Graham.

 

[GoonerJeeves]

It's a disservice to not have a George Graham thread under Arsenal History. He's a bit of a forgotten man, especially for my generation who were brought up on Wenger. I'm curious what everyone's thoughts are regarding GG. Is he an Arsenal legend or not?

Here's a quick highlight of some key accomplishments/highlights:

• 1971 double as a player, swears he had the goal and not Eddie Kelly against Liverpool in the FA cup.
• 1987 league cup winner - first trophy since 79 FA cup.
• Dismantled Liverpool monopoly - won first league title since 71' in 1989 at Anfield.
• Almost had the first invincible Arsenal squad.
• Signed Ian Wright
• 92/93 - first side to win both league cup & FA cup.
• Brought in key figures of our backline that Wenger benefitted from (Adams, Winterburn, Dixon, Bould etc.) Also signed Seaman.
• Turned down Liverpool when Dalglish resigned.
• 1-0 to the Arsenal because of GG.

Some cons:

• Managed Sp*rs.
• Forced out Rocastle.
• Club culture started to dwindle.
• Humiliating sacking.
• Entertainment value?

Don't think bungs should be listed as a con as everyone was doing it. I mean Big Sam was doing it a few years ago ffs. We can debate on this.

Anyway, thoughts? I'm going with yes.

An obvious yes.

 

[jones]

Double winning / fairs cup winning player
twice league/ fa cup and league cup/ cup winners cup winning manager
coarse he is

Good to have you back beck. Can you tell for those too young to remember what minutes the goals were scored in the Fairs Cup finals?

 

[Andrew Cole Linighan]

For me, George Graham is an Arsenal Legend. When I first began supporting Arsenal, the three Big Clubs were managed by Scots. Man Utd - Sir Alex, Liverpool - Kenny Dalgliesh, and Arsenal - George.
When he was appointed Manager, I believe Arsenal had been in the doldrums? He got rid of some of the old players, and signed Lee Dixon and Steve Bould from Stoke City. Also the likes of Nigel Winterburn and Alan Smith. The likes of Paul Merson were emerging from the Youth Team.
He Won the League Cup first? Then there was the memorable Anfield 89; League Title Win. We also Won the League again in 91, Fa Cup and League Cup Wins against Sheffield Wednesday in 1993. The following year, we had European Success, beating Parma.
George created the Famous Arsenal Back Four, '1 - 0 to the Arsenal'. He signed Ian Wright from Crystal Palace, for £2,5m.
But after a while, the play was becoming predictable, defensive. 'Boring, Boring Arsenal' was the Chant.
Unfortunately things started to unravel for him. The Chris Kiyomia signing still amazes me.
George did give Arsène Wenger the Back Four, as a basis to build his team.

 

[Andrew Cole Linighan]

This is my favourite George Graham picture. Winning the First Division Championship in 1991. The Trophy was surely a thing of Beauty. You had two trophies, also the Barclays trophy?

George was also on the open top bus, celebrating this win in 1991.

George with Tony Adams on the open top bus parade. I bet Tony felt like dancing during this. George also has the Manager of the Year trophy.
Then in 1993 and 1994, we had the FA Cup/League Cup success. (I believe we are the first Club to win these two trophies in the same season)? Then we had European success, winning the European Cup Winners Cup.


Of course, there was Anfield 89.

George Graham also managed Tottenham Hotspur. He won the League Cup with them, but was sacked sometime after. Gratitude for you. Perhaps Sp**s didn't like the idea of winning a trophy.

 

[Mrs Bergkamp]

Yes for me. He did the business as player and manager and oversaw one of the best ends to a season ever in 89. Yes he managed Sp**s but it's embarrassing for them that of their last two trophies, the last one of the last century was won by an Arsenal man.

 

[GoonerJeeves]

Honestly, it is a silly thread title. It is a self evident. Would you make a title "Thierry Henry - Legend?" Overall, Graham did more for this club than Henry. We don't have many people that have delivered trophies both as a player and a manager. George Graham is a proper Arsenal legend.

 

[Jury]

'Legend' doesn't do him justice.