German Football 2017/18

[Toby]

Cheers, explains everything. Looks like a total mess that needs cleaning all over.

Yeah, also their player and management salary list and other intern documents were found scattered around a briefcase in a park in Hamburg. **** like that happening doesn't really help them either.

Didn't even find an english source on that, but it was hilarious.

http://www.sport1.de/fussball/bunde...e-dokumente-und-gehaltsliste-in-park-gefunden

 

[Toby]

Some non-transfer news from Germany:

Willy Sagnol, french ex-Bayern LB, joins Ancelotti's staff as assistant

Coach Nagelsmann and DoF Rosen both extend their contracts at Hoffenheim until 2021

Heiko Herrlich, famous as long serving BVB player, joins Leverkusen as Head Coach from Jahn Regensburg, who just got promoted from 3. to 2. Bundesliga. No other significant coaching jobs as of now

Schalke apparently about to fire coach Markus Weinzierl, want to sign Domenico Tedesco who just got his first gig as a non-youth coach at Erzgebirge Aue this March, keeping them in 2. Bundesliga. If true, very bold appointment

 

[Toby]

Schalke apparently about to fire coach Markus Weinzierl, want to sign Domenico Tedesco who just got his first gig as a non-youth coach at Erzgebirge Aue this March, keeping them in 2. Bundesliga. If true, very bold appointment

And it's through, Schalke appoint Tedesco, who has only been in First Team Management for 3 months now, before that coaching at Stuttgart's and Hoffenheim's youth academies. He's regarded as one of Germany's biggest managerial talents, but nonetheless, bold move by DoF Heidel and the Schalke board.

 

[Borussin]

Oh Schalke.
Maybe finally they'll stick with one and get it right! The amount of coaches they've had in the past decade is quite crazy.

 

[Toby]

Oh Schalke.
Maybe finally they'll get it right! The amount of coaches they've had in the past decade is quite crazy.

Yes, but I'm still very doubtful. I also feel a bit for Weinzierl. I still think he's at least a decent Bundesliga manager and got steamrolled by the chaos on Schalke and various things not going his way.
They brought in both a new DoF plus a new manager, brought in 8 players with first 11 ambitions in the summer, of which two instantly got injured, then brought in another 3 players in the winter. At the same time they let go 5 players who were regular contributors, among them Sané and Matip - integral parts of their squad. A lot of the new signings didn't get into gear. For the first time Weinzierl had to manage a team competing in three cups, without getting the time to get accomodated, because on Schalke, there's instant pressure and always a bit of chaos.
Heidel is responsible for last season's underachievement as much as Weinzierl, imo.

 

[Borussin]

Agree about the coach. I've mentioned in this thread at least once that I like Weinzierl as a coach and think he has a lot of potential. I wonder if there where problems off the pitch or something too.

Heidel took a big decission in leaving his comfort zone at Mainz for this role. And despite the fact I really shouldn't have much liking for Schalke people ( ) I hope it works out for him, I guess I have a soft spot for him and Mainz because of Kloppo. I hope they do show some patience now. Because they could likely lose a couple more good players this summer and there will be even more changes to the squad, and they have to find stability first and foremost.

 

[Toby]

Heidel took a big decission in leaving his comfort zone at Mainz for this role.

Yep, he did. And I don't know if it's going to work out for him. There are different kinds of managers and DoFs, some can do it all, some thrive in special environments. For example, I think Streich is a phenomenal coach, but take him out of Freiburg and he'd struggle - not because he's tacticall inept or something, but because the situation at Freiburg gets the best out of him. Might turn out to be the same for Heidel, who thrived at Mainz but might struggle at Schalke. I thought it was really intelligent from Max Eberl to stay at Gladbach, it's all working for him there. How many guys failed at the DoF job at Bayern in recent years? Nerlinger, Sammer kind of - they've got a very distinct and difficult setup with Hoeneß and Rummenigge in charge, but the seemingly clever guys - Lahm, Eberl - turned the job down.

I can comprehend being tempted by Schalke, Bayern, Dortmund and other big clubs, but sometimes it might be better to stick to what's working for you. There's loads of managers and DoFs who have proven their competence at lower- and midtable clubs but who've struggled at the big ones. If you look around, it's astonishing Wenger has been around at one club for 21 years, maybe not delivering the top work and trophies since 10 years anymore, but still, compare that to the work of people at Schalke or somewhere.

And regarding Weinzierl: If he stays put for now, there's probably gonna be loads of job openings in the Bundesliga once it commences...Nouri, Herrlich, Jonker, Hecking, Dardai, Gisdol, Breitenreiter all feel like candidates to get fired sooner or later.

 

[Toby]

I was just having a smoke and thinking it'd be very interesting to see guys like Weinzierl, Roger and Martin Schmidt in the PL, instead of them waiting on job openings during the Bundesliga season. If Marco Silva can do a job at Hull, if David Wagner can do it at Huddersfield, why can't they?

We talked about the high energy pressing game of german teams going a bit stale for them in league and international competitions, but looking at the PL, a lot of the lower table teams go full on parking the bus and playing on the counter against the bigger teams - apart from matches against Bayern and sometimes BVB, you don't see that kind of negative game in the Bundesliga.
Guys like Weinzierl could very well infuse english teams from the lower half of the table with a more active pressing style and more energy (like Klopp does at Liverpool, and their style does differ from the other PL teams), just like we argued foreign managers could add something to the Bundesliga.

 

[Borussin]

I'd love nothing more than to see the likes of Roger Schmidt give it a try. One of the many things I like about the bundesliga is that many of the so called weaker teams will often still try and play really decent technical football that is good to watch. I actually don't watch that much premier league teams outside of the likes of Liverpool and Arsenal, because of how poor the football often is. As a neutral I don't want to see teams like Stoke, Southampton, Palace, West Brom, Burnley, Man Utd ( ) etc park a bus for 90 minuets, it's pretty dull.

Nothing wrong with the tactic, each to their own and all that, if it works it works, but it doesn't do it for me as a neutral fan.

Maybe next season will be interesting, because Silva if course will be back in the prem, David Wagner will be there, Rafa Benitez will be back. Of cousre the likes of Huddersfield will need to be strong in defence to stand a chance, but I still expect them to play pretty good football.

I thought maybe Schmidt would go to southampton, with their German background, but I see that they are selling up. So maybe that won't happen now.

 

[4R5Emaniac]

@Borussin I wish and hope you sign Zlatan! Would be so awesome to see him take a pay cut and turn up for top club in the BuLi before he is done at the top level.

And I also hope if not him you give Balotelli a shot at resurrecting his career at the highest level. It could be a masterstroke, you never know!

 

[Toby]

I thought maybe Schmidt would go to southampton, with their German background, but I see that they are selling up. So maybe that won't happen now.

Tuchel has been linked to Southampton in the last couple of days...

Agree with the rest of your post, and I don't really get why not more german coaches have tried. Though, maybe Klopp and Wagner have set a precedent and we'll see some more in the PL. I mean, by now, they're still all free agents and all Bundesliga jobs are locked down for the moment until probably at least September/October.

 

[Borussin]

@Borussin I wish and hope you sign Zlatan! Would be so awesome to see him take a pay cut and turn up for top club in the BuLi before he is done at the top level.

And I also hope if not him you give Balotelli a shot at resurrecting his career at the highest level. It could be a masterstroke, you never know!

I never even thought of Zlatan, probably cos of the injury, put him out of my mind! But he'd have a hell of a lot of fun in the buli for sure

I don't think I want to take a chance of Balotteli, he has too much baggage! Lucky that story seemed to have just been a joke, cos his agent was talking to Dortmund about someone else. I hope that was the case!

Tuchel has been linked to Southampton in the last couple of days...

Agree with the rest of your post, and I don't really get why not more german coaches have tried. Though, maybe Klopp and Wagner have set a precedent and we'll see some more in the PL. I mean, by now, they're still all free agents and all Bundesliga jobs are locked down for the moment until probably at least September/October.

Yeah the Tuchel thing too, I read that, then this whole thing with a takeover happened, so not sure what the deal is there at the moment. I'd be surprised if Tuchel took it. But if he wants to get back in quickly, his options will be limted, but he may just wait a little bit.

I thought it was cool that Norwich got Daniel Farke, nice to see a club go for the not so obvious option. I hope he does well.

 

[Toby]

Yeah the Tuchel thing too, I read that, then this whole thing with a takeover happened, so not sure what the deal is there at the moment. I'd be surprised if Tuchel took it. But if he wants to get back in quickly, his options will be limted, but he may just wait a little bit.

Don't know about Tuchel...the whole Dortmund saga, the things he let his agent say about Leverkusen (no tradition, boring city, not inspirational etc.) and his own ambition limit his domestic options to practically zero.
If he waits to see what happens in the Bundesliga, I still can't see which club he go to after having managed Dortmund and being as ambitious as he is...maybe Gladbach, maybe STuttgart cause he's from round here, but we're currently breeding our own Tuchel with Wolf. Wolfsburg? If he thinks Leverkusen have no tradition, then he surely thinks the same about them. Hamburg, maybe? But they already turned him down for his demands regarding influence and power at the club. So...nothing really left
And then there's still the stories about him being difficult to work with, even since his Mainz days, then the Leverkusen stuff...I agree with him about Leverkusen and say these things all the time, but I'm not a pro manager

I can only see him going abroad.

 

[Borussin]

Don't know about Tuchel...the whole Dortmund saga, the things he let his agent say about Leverkusen (no tradition, boring city, not inspirational etc.) and his own ambition limit his domestic options to practically zero.
If he waits to see what happens in the Bundesliga, I still can't see which club he go to after having managed Dortmund and being as ambitious as he is...maybe Gladbach, but that's the only one I can see.
But then there's still the stories about him being difficult to work with, even since his Mainz days, then the Leverkusen stuff...I agree with him about Leverkusen and say these things all the time, but I'm not a pro manager

I can only see him going abroad.

Tuchel is a funny one. Even though I appreciate what he did at Dortmund, he's just rather hard to like! He doesn't help himself though, but the thing is, he doesn't seem to care either. He's very confident, has a bit of an ego, and truly believes in his way above any other way - not that there is anything wrong with that, but sometimes it seems to be at the detriment of the teams momentum. He's very ambitious, and there always seems to be this feeling that he's so career focused, that loyalty to a team is not important.

Can he really do this thing of taking time off between jobs again I wonder? But I agree - in the Bundesliga his options are very limited.

So maybe it will be a case of him taking a job abroad, maybe not with a big team at first, but somewhere where he can build his reputation and maybe prove to be a bit easier to work with next time round!

 

[4R5Emaniac]

Tuchel finally land in HsV would be interesting. I hope he is available when Gisdol gets the sack. Btw, who do you guys would think would be the best candidates if Hamburg were looking for a manager and why? @Toby Andrl @Borussin

 

[Toby]

Tuchel is a funny one. Even though I appreciate what he did at Dortmund, he's just rather hard to like! He doesn't help himself though, but the thing is, he doesn't seem to care either. He's very confident, has a bit of an ego, and truly believes in his way above any other way - not that there is anything wrong with that, but sometimes it seems to be at the detriment of the teams momentum. He's very ambitious, and there always seems to be this feeling that he's so career focused, that loyalty to a team is not important.

If you understand german (still don't know if you're german or a foreign Dortmund fan) watch this:

Massively interesting look into his methods, thinking and character. It's just him talking for half an our about his work and ideas etc. I watched it a couple of times and was very impressed by him. Odd guy, cold guy, but definitely very intelligent and talented.

Tuchel finally land in HsV would be interesting. I hope he is available when Gisdol gets the sack. Btw, who do you guys would think would be the best choice if Hamburg were looking for a manager and why? @Toby Andrl @Borussin

I'll have a beer and a look around transfermarkt and other sources and see if I can come up with someone, haven't got anyone on my mind right now.

 

[Toby]

@4R5Emaniac

So...everything here is based on fantasy, there's nothing to suggest something like this might happen:

I'd get rid of Heribert Bruchhagen, I think he's an absolute clown. Get in Dieter Hoeneß, Uli's brother, as Chairmann of the board. Knows football, no nonsense and commanding, massive respect in Germany as player and club official, like his brother, but not as arrogant or unlikeable - unfortunately also not as good a track record as Uli, but still good work at Stuttgart, Hertha and Wolfsburg.

Director of football is a tough one, they need someone who knows his stuff, is not a lapdog for anyone, has experience with publicly exposed clubs. Highly unlikely, but I'd go for Jörg Schmadtke from Köln. Intelligent guy, straight guy, did a good job a Köln, knows what he wants, works in his frame.

As coach I'd get Pierluigi Tami. First I thought of Tuchel, but he puts too much limelight on the club, and that's not good in troubled times. Then I thought of someone in the ilk of both the chairman and DoF I suggested - experienced, calm, good track record, good in public, hands on attitude - and came to think of old school coaches like Ranieri. But that might all be a bit too much on the safe side, and you need bold decisions to get to the top, so I'd take Pierluigi Tami. Not nearly proven, but seems intricate, grounded, focused, plays good football - and, very importantly, not already scorched and wasted in german football or german media, a new guy, a bit leftfield - it might just pay off.

Then try and get scouts from Hoffenheim, Mainz, Freiburg and 1860 München.

 

[4R5Emaniac]

@4R5Emaniac

So...everything here is based on fantasy, there's nothing to suggest something like this might happen:

I'd get rid of Heribert Bruchhagen, I think he's an absolute clown. Get in Dieter Hoeneß, Uli's brother, as Chairmann of the board. Knows football, no nonsense and commanding, massive respect in Germany as player and club official, like his brother, but not as arrogant or unlikeable - unfortunately also not as good a track record as Uli, but still good work at Stuttgart, Hertha and Wolfsburg.

Director of football is a tough one, they need someone who knows his stuff, is not a lapdog for anyone, has experience with publicly exposed clubs. Highly unlikely, but I'd go for Jörg Schmadtke from Köln. Intelligent guy, straight guy, did a good job a Köln, knows what he wants, works in his frame.

As coach I'd get Pierluigi Tami. First I thought of Tuchel, but he puts too much limelight on the club, and that's not good in troubled times. Then I thought of someone in the ilk of both the chairman and DoF I suggested - experienced, calm, good track record, good in public, hands on attitude - and came to think of old school coaches like Ranieri. But that might all be a bit too much on the safe side, and you need bold decisions to get to the top, so I'd take Pierluigi Tami. Not nearly proven, but seems intricate, grounded, focused, plays good football - and, very importantly, not already scorched and wasted in german football or german media, a new guy, a bit leftfield - it might just pay off.

Then try and get scouts from Hoffenheim, Mainz, Freiburg and 1860 München.

My question was pretty much a fantasy one really and was just thinking manager but you've given me a bigger picture with much more in depth ideas. I must admit I have a tendency of fantasizing about such stuff and ideas often. Just get such a kick out of everything football and its harmless! I'm addicted to thinking about this stuff.

I'll read up on what I can get about the info you provided. Some more harmless brain exercise...

 

[Toby]

My question was pretty much a fantasy one really and was just thinking manager but you've given me a bigger picture with much more in depth ideas. I must admit I have a tendency of fantasizing about such stuff and ideas often. Just get such a kick out of everything football and its harmless! I'm addicted to thinking about this stuff.

I'll read up on what I can get about the info you provided. Some more harmless brain exercise...

Yeah, it's fun, sure! And to degree, the pros do the same, just with more business knowledge and data.

It's off topic, but I also like thinking about this stuff not only because I love football, but because I am thinking about becoming the Director of my smalltown clubs Volleyball department. So anything that's about thinking of working on how a sportsclub is run in any regard is highly interesting to me, right now.

 

[4R5Emaniac]

Yeah, it's fun, sure! And to degree, the pros do the same, just with more business knowledge and data.

It's off topic, but I also like thinking about this stuff not only because I love football, but because I am thinking about becoming the Director of my smalltown clubs Volleyball department. So anything that's about thinking of working on how a sportsclub is run in any regard is highly interesting to me, right now.

Sounds great, my best wishes. I can visualize you doing rather well for sure! And it helps you to keep ahead you know. If you know how to calculate through your imagination with data, knowledge, ideas etc you come to probable outcomes, scenarious, possibilities, negatives/positives etc then get to work. Its a healthy practice for anything.

Best of luck and thanks again for engaging in my BS, haha.