German Football 2017/18

[Borussin]

A manager who doesn't get enough love, at least on here, is Domenico Tedesco.

Very intelligent guy who not only has bachelor degrees but who also graduated at the top of his class at the top German football coaching academy, according to Wikipedia at least.

His first job in management was last season at bottom placed Erzgebirge Aue. He took over in March and managed to completely turn their season around, winning 6 games, drawing 2, and losing 3. That run of form saw the club avoid relegation, finishing 14th in the process.

He's now doing a superb job with Schalke, having both recreated players and integrated many promising players into the 1st team.

A very deep thinker of the game, as evidenced by the following interview which I posted a while ago:

https://spielverlagerung.com/2017/12/02/interview-with-schalke-head-coach-domenico-tedesco/

I quite liked this section:

Tactical coaching as being this integrative process, as opposed to this top down relationship where the coach just tells the player what to do. The best results as coming only when you collaborate with the players and come to a consensus regarding how to approach a particular problem.

I think the reason he doesn't get much love, is that most neutrals find the blues are just really really boring to watch under him But he's doing what he needs to do, and is a really fine coach, and the blues should be back where a club of their sizes should be next season, in the CL. The most important thing they did lst 2 years was get Christian Heidl in from Mainz, now he needs to take them the next step and actually start doing some magic in the transfer market and start keeping their big players rather than losing them on frees all the time. So they can start to maintain an European presence. They are a massive club, and of course want to be ont he European stage year in year out.

Of the coaches in the buli at the moment, I would say Heiko Herrlich has impressed me most this season, but yes for sure Tedesco too. Niko Kovac is doing a really impressive job too as is Manuel Baum.

 

[BobP]

Hearing rumours that both Dortmund and Bayern are interested in hiring Favre.

 

[Furious]

Hearing rumours that both Dortmund and Bayern are interested in hiring Favre.

Old news re. Dortmund interest, no?

Hearing Balotelli to Napoli is as good as done, too. No wonder Favre wants to leave.

 

[Borussin]

Old news re. Dortmund interest, no?

Hearing Balotelli to Napoli is as good as done, too. No wonder Favre wants to leave.

It's come up again due to a report in the French media this week.

Even though Favre is obviously a good coach with proven years in the Bundesliga too, I am really not sure if it's the right direction for Dortmund to go now.

Dortmund need to get the next coach choice right, already 3 coaches, and now likely 4, since Kloppo left. It is not helping the team settle and find a direction again, different coaches coming in, all with different styles.

I would prefer they really plan ahead and go with a younger coach, Nagelsmann of course was one name brought up a lot, and I'd like to see the club go that route. But otherwise someone like Marco Rose would be interesting too, and there are a couple other good coaches in the Bundesliga already who they could and maybe should look at.

I am just not sure getting in a 60 year old coach who even though he is a good coach, did have some issues with dealing with pressure in the Bundesliga before, is a good idea. He would be under big pressure at Dortmund.

 

[Toby]

@Borussin As a fan of theirs, what do you think about the squad? I feel while they used to be good at recruiting excellent replacements for poached top players, they kinda failed in the last roughly two years. Also, I think there's too much deadwood, mainly down to re-signing ex players like Kagawa, Sahin, Goetze who never reached their old BvB peaks, as well as not being ruthless enough earlier with subpar players who have aged and become subpar like Schmelzer and piszczek. Looking at it from my angle, you need a lot of squad rebuilding along with an absolute fit when hiring a new manager. Can't go on with Stoeger...

he's doing what he needs to do

I actually admire his pragmatism. He's taking one tiny step after another to adjust how they play. There's not much more creativity and attacking dynamic to get out of that team. They do need some good signings for the next season and get Tedesco something to work with.

 

[SomGooner]

I'm gutted that Cologne will get relegated. I hope they bounce back because I feel like the Bundesliga is better with them rather than without them.

Also looking forward to seeing Fortuna Dusseldorf and Nuremberg back in the Bundesliga. Hope they both pull through.

@Borussin What happened to Kaiserslautern?

 

[Toby]

I'm gutted that Cologne will get relegated

Nothing's lost yet, nothing's lost. It's highlily unlikley, but right now Cologne is the best out of that bottom four bunch of them, Hamburg, Mainz and Wolfsburg. It's a massive tally to overwind pointswise, but, the other three candidates are utter garbage. The only one nailed on to go down is HSV. And righlty so. Disgrace of a club for the last few years. Bremen, Stuttgart and Freiburg are out of it. But Mainz and VW? No way. There's still a slight chance for Koeln.

 

[Borussin]

@Borussin As a fan of theirs, what do you think about the squad? I feel while they used to be good at recruiting excellent replacements for poached top players, they kinda failed in the last roughly two years. Also, I think there's too much deadwood, mainly down to re-signing ex players like Kagawa, Sahin, Goetze who never reached their old BvB peaks, as well as not being ruthless enough earlier with subpar players who have aged and become subpar like Schmelzer and piszczek. Looking at it from my angle, you need a lot of squad rebuilding along with an absolute fit when hiring a new manager. Can't go on with Stoeger...

I fully expect a new coach for sure! I like Stöger as a man and for 'steading the BVB ship' and for the job he did with Effzeh, but he's not a long term solution for Dortmund.

As for our squad. I would say we have a good group of players aged around 18-26 that make a good basis of a squad - Weigl, Dahoud, Sancho, Pulisic, Guerreiro, Philipp, Akanji, Zagadou and Gomez. And Reus and Sokratis are two good and important players too. I am ok with Schmelle and Pizczeck still being there, you need that stability and people who understand the club and it's philosophy and fanbase. Of the players the club bought back, Kagawa has actually been good. But I'd like for them not to go down that route, because it sends the wrong message to me. Like, 'you can leave us cos you think there is better out there, knowing we'll take you back'. I just don't think we need to do that.

Our priorities in the summer has to be a new goalie, not just cos Roman Weidenfeller is retiring, but because Bürki has to get at least some decent competition, or even better we get a new number 1. We also have to get a good striker. We probably need 2 strikers, it's been like that since we sold Adrian Ramos, who was never replaced. Full back too may need looking at.

The transfer thing does sort of concern me, as it's not been as cohesive as it was when Kloppo was here. The teams built then where done so expertly, not just cos of him of course, it was a group effort, but it worked well with Klopp, Zorc, the scouts working in unison. I don't think they are all on the same page now, and it's made tougher by so many coaching changes. Plus back then those great teams where built on a budget, now we have some money, it seems harder to build!

But yeah for sure, the squad needs a bit of an overhaul, it's too big a squad, and guys like Yarmalenko, Castro, Sahin (who I love, but heck!), Schürrle could be and maybe should be on the way out. Although I can't see Aki Watzke being willing to sell Sahin. Same with Goetze really, sadly, I never see him recovering properly to be the player he was.

So yeah! Big long ramble! The most important thing this team can do in the summer is make the right coaching choice. Problem I think for Dortmund now, is that the expectations changed so much the last few years. So the patience is maybe a bit thinner, from a team who where in such a bad way not that many years ago, to now being a team expected to go toe to toe with the heavyweights in Europe, which is difficult as we can't and won't compete financially with them.

 

[Toby]

@Borussin Massively appreciate your answer. Nice for a look at how a fans sees things. Quite a few interesting points and I agree with most. Seems to me that just that tip of experience and quality is lacking to push on again. I'd definitely have rather you win the Bundesliga than Bayern. 'Cause we in Stuttgart won't do it for at least another couple of years

 

[Borussin]

@Borussin Massively appreciate your answer. Nice for a look at how a fans sees things. Quite a few interesting points and I agree with most. Seems to me that just that tip of experience and quality is lacking to push on again. I'd definitely have rather you win the Bundesliga than Bayern.

yeah there is definitely a void in quality now. We did well to a point in replacing players we lost, but when it happens over and over and over again it gets harder and harder. Losing Kloppo was a shock to the system off the field as much as on too, so that was something that took a bit of adjustment - and in fact, not sure we even adjusted yet. It was like Tuchel's first few months here where just a honeymoon period that wasn't meant to last looking back! What looked like a smooth transition didn't end up being that.

In terms of players the biggest loss that was impossible to get over was Mats Hummels. So yeah for sure, whereas we have a few nice players, the spine of the team now is much weaker. From a spine consisting of the likes of Weindefeller, Hummels, Subotic, Kehl, Bender, Sahin (V1.0), Gundogan, Lewandowski, Aubamayang, the drop off is significant.

 

[Toby]

In terms of players the biggest loss that was impossible to get over was Mats Hummels.

That ****** Hummels leaving you for a television gig for his girlfriend in Munich was one of most ****ed up things I ever witnessed in football.

 

[Brown Gooner]

^ What a sad little hater!

 

[<<reed>>]

That ****** Hummels leaving you for a television gig for his girlfriend in Munich was one of most ****ed up things I ever witnessed in football.

Could you give a link?

 

[BobP]

You watch Hamburg somehow survive relegation for the umpteenth time.

Someone like Andre Hahn will become the reincarnation of Johan Cryuff for a couple of games. They'll sneak into 16th in the table and beat whoever they come up against in the relegation playoff.

 

[Borussin]

You watch Hamburg somehow survive relegation for the umpteenth time.

Someone like Andre Hahn will become the reincarnation of Johan Cryuff for a couple of games. They'll sneak into 16th in the table and beat whoever they come up against in the relegation playoff.

it's funny cos it's true!

But not that I wish relegation on anyone, I just want them to go down this time, mostly cos I have a bit of a soft spot for Mainz, and don't want them to get sucked in to that mess. It's likely they will have to go the playoff route as it is.

 

[Toby]

Could you give a link?

There's basically no one link, sorry, and doubt he'd ever state that publicly. The official version he offered in the media was family and past in Munich, and of course sporting reasons. But it's more or less an open secret, you can put together dozens and dozens of snippets of TV, interviews, gossip mags, news reports and so on from the last 5 years, that very clearly indicate Mrs. Hummels' wish to work in television and become and "It-girl" and that it was a driving force behind his transfer to Bayern.

You can follow quite an obvious trail of his now wife starting to try to work in media/television around 2013/14 - rather unsuccessfully. In 2014 she finally got her own column for the WC in Brazil, "Cathy in Rio" or whatever it was called, and it was basically a rich, white, german wannabe It-girl walking around town with cocktails and getting beauty treatments in front of favelas, had an awfully colonial taste to it. And what should have been her breakthrough got massively criticised for the ****show it was and she was called out as priviliged, tasteless and wooden from anyone. Her TV career was already over, before it had started. Then suddenly "reports" began to emerge that she didn't like the "provincial" Dortmund anymore and she started to feed the media her it-girl and fashionista plans again. In 2016 she finally got her will. And the minute the move is through, who shows up on telly again? Right, her. She definitely had an agenda and was no doubt a driving force for Hummels to Bayern.

Forgot it, but something that indicates it all the more clearly: The TV mag she showed up on as a moderator/reporter is based and taped in Munich.

 

[Toby]

Just read on a german forum "inside" news that Nagelsmann will join Dortmund, with Kovac taking over at Bayern.

The second deal is apparently done since the beginning of this year and widely known in the industry. Would fit right in with Fredi Bobic's (Frankfurt DoF) comments from January that he knows who'll be next Bayern manager.

Would also fit into last years narrative that Bayern don't want either Tuchel for his character, or else they would've signed him instead of Heynckes already, nor Nagelsmann for his inexperience, who has been linked to Dortmund quite frequently.

 

[Borussin]

Mats Hummels would certainly be happy for it not to be Tuchel

We shall see I guess! I think that when the other week Jupp Heynckes mentioned Tuchel as a good successor was a bit telling.
But It'd also make sense to have Kovac as one of their top choices, being that they want a German coach this time.

I just wonder how much emphasis style of football has in their decision. He's another pragmatic coach but that's understandable, with a hugely talented squad it may be very different. He's done a great job in Frankfurt.

 

[Toby]

He's another pragmatic coach but that's understandable, with a hugely talented squad it may be very different. He's done a great job in Frankfurt.

I think he might surprise a few people when working with a more talented squad. There's glimpses of nice attacking play in his pragmatic Frankfurt side.

 

[Brown Gooner]

Very harsh on Ulreich that Trapp and Leno were selected over him. Ulreich has been pretty good for Bayern since Jupp has come back and he is playing as GK for the biggest club in Germany, so to have PSG’s second choice GK selected above him must be a bitter pill to swallow. Also, whenever Leno plays for Germany he lets in a silly goal (see the two WC qualifying games against Azerbaijan and the Confed cup game against Australia)

Surprisingly not a single Dortmund player called up for Die Mannschaft! Gotze and Schurrle exclusion is really surprising.

As for Reus, I think Löw is being wise by not trusting Marco.

@Borussin - Good for you man. Dortmund players will be well rested and with no EL to play in they will be hungry in Der Klassiker and Bayern also have a trip to Seville in a couple days after that game, so I am expecting a second team from Bayern and Dortmund to hand Bayern their first home defeat of the season