German Football 2018/19

[NieThePiet]

and the next.

Weinzierl with 0:8 goals after two games so far.

 

[redanddread]

 

[NieThePiet]

We're back to earth after this good into the season.

First home loss for Kohfeldt in his 17th home game. 8 goals conceded before the game, now 14.

 

[Aevi]

@Toby Andrl what's happening with Stuttgart this season? Missing Asano that much?

 

[Toby]

@Toby Andrl what's happening with Stuttgart this season? Missing Asano that much?

Kind of weird.

Seems like this to me:

Korkut, who came in after Wolf was fired last January, could massively build on Wolf's work on the defensive side of things regarding structure and shape. He then did what Wolf couldn't bring himself to do and swapped a defender for a forward, switching from 5221 to 442 and from the more "cultivated", positive style approach of Wolf to a more kick and rush style and a sound defense. Along a mountain of luck and two new players brought in who happened to be in stunning form - Gomez and Thommy - Stuttgart went on that great run to finish 7th.

At the time the change of managers was needed: Wolf obviously didn't believe the team could keep the defense solid with less defensive players which is why he stuck to 5 at the back. He was also obviously unable to develop and implent a working offensive structure (something a lot of german managers struggle with, Tedesco being another great example) with the progressive style he had in mind, and was too caught up in his ideas to revert back to a more basic style.

Now what Korkut did was absolutely right. The incoherent offensive play and miserable chance creation screamed for another attacker in the side, while the overall defensive stability highly suggested a defender could be sacrificed. And it worked. In terms of offense what he did cannot really be called style or system: Long balls to Ginkzek as a lynchpin, who laid the ball off the wingers who in turn tried to get it to Gomez in the box. In this simple, streamlined attacking play, the quality of Gomez and Ginkzek, the surprising form of Thommy, the defensive structure coached into the team by Wolf and a lot of luck did the trick.

But you could kind of already see that an isolated Gomez without another forward working around him, lacking wingplay and just a tiny little less luck would be problems for this team, especially if they we're forced to take on a more dominant role.

So what did they do in the summer? Korkut obviously had the idea of implementing a more footballing, positive style himself and completely dimissed how the team played under him for the second half of the season and why this had worked.

Early signs were promising with the quick transfers of Maffeo, Sosa and Kempf - three young, promising talents in positions of need. But then they went on and sold CF Daniel Ginzek, a crucial element of the team's latest 442 style and success and added Daniel Didavi, an ex-VfB 10, but plagued by injury and unsuited to playing on the wings or a high balls game. With the idea to change to a more positive style of play, the transfer made sense - unfortunately, Didavi is, who could have known, perpetually injured; and when played he was used as a winger which is a disaster.

The central midfield cried for a deep playmaker, an upgrade to Dennis Aogo. But instead of going for the cheaper and profile fitting Nuri Sahin the management went for Gonzalo Castro as they had someone more dynamic in mind, at the same time loaning out Orel Mangala, our own well rounded, dynamic CM talent who looked like he was just about to take another step up to Hamburg. This business in particular has turned out to be a catastrophe.

Then we had the whole Badstuber and pavard saga. Badstuber let his contract run out to negotiate with CL clubs - turns out nobody wanted him and he got back to the Stuttgart table. At the same time the management was seemingly unsure whether they could keep pavard, although the continous price tag raising suggests they never wanted to sell. But I strongly believe they weren't 100% sure which is why they gave Badstuber an expensive longterm contract - VfB ended up with both at the club and now basically has three or almost four first choice CBs. A very disruptive situation.

At the same time no wingers were added.

So what happened: They brought in a guy limited to playing as a 10 with Korkut playing a 442. They sold one of the two proper CFs who was integral to the system. Korkut stuck to his 442 but wanted to tweak it to be more dominant and positive, but without proper wingers and a central playmaker this massively backfired. Furthermore, in his quest to implement his own style, Korkut apparently managed to coach any defensive structure out of the team. Also, they completely f*cked up fitness in pre-season - the team seems knackered after 25 minutes.

So yeah, we brought in a couple of promising youngsters, but failed to address any of the seriously pressing squad issues while bringing in some past it seniors and selling one of our key players - and Tayfun Korkut turned out to be useless for anything but the simplest kick and rush.

We will lose against Frankfurt next weekend. But then we have to start turning things around starting with 3 points against Nuremberg and a couple of draws until the winter break. Get Mangala back from HSV and add a proper winger or two. Then hope Weinzierl manages to get some players out of their form crisis and give the team a bit of structure, so we might get out of the relegation battle early.

 

[Aevi]

Kind of weird.

Seems like this to me:

Korkut, who came in after Wolf was fired last January, could massively build on Wolf's work on the defensive side of things regarding structure and shape. He then did what Wolf couldn't bring himself to do and swapped a defender for a forward, switching from 5221 to 442 and from the more "cultivated", positive style approach of Wolf to a more kick and rush style and a sound defense. Along a mountain of luck and two new players brought in who happened to be in stunning form - Gomez and Thommy - Stuttgart went on that great run to finish 7th.

At the time the change of managers was needed: Wolf obviously didn't believe the team could keep the defense solid with less defensive players which is why he stuck to 5 at the back. He was also obviously unable to develop and implent a working offensive structure (something a lot of german managers struggle with, Tedesco being another great example) with the progressive style he had in mind, and was too caught up in his ideas to revert back to a more basic style.

Now what Korkut did was absolutely right. The incoherent offensive play and miserable chance creation screamed for another attacker in the side, while the overall defensive stability highly suggested a defender could be sacrificed. And it worked. In terms of offense what he did cannot really be called style or system: Long balls to Ginkzek as a lynchpin, who laid the ball off the wingers who in turn tried to get it to Gomez in the box. In this simple, streamlined attacking play, the quality of Gomez and Ginkzek, the surprising form of Thommy, the defensive structure coached into the team by Wolf and a lot of luck did the trick.

But you could kind of already see that an isolated Gomez without another forward working around him, lacking wingplay and just a tiny little less luck would be problems for this team, especially if they we're forced to take on a more dominant role.

So what did they do in the summer? Korkut obviously had the idea of implementing a more footballing, positive style himself and completely dimissed how the team played under him for the second half of the season and why this had worked.

Early signs were promising with the quick transfers of Maffeo, Sosa and Kempf - three young, promising talents in positions of need. But then they went on and sold CF Daniel Ginzek, a crucial element of the team's latest 442 style and success and added Daniel Didavi, an ex-VfB 10, but plagued by injury and unsuited to playing on the wings or a high balls game. With the idea to change to a more positive style of play, the transfer made sense - unfortunately, Didavi is, who could have known, perpetually injured; and when played he was used as a winger which is a disaster.

The central midfield cried for a deep playmaker, an upgrade to Dennis Aogo. But instead of going for the cheaper and profile fitting Nuri Sahin the management went for Gonzalo Castro as they had someone more dynamic in mind, at the same time loaning out Orel Mangala, our own well rounded, dynamic CM talent who looked like he was just about to take another step up to Hamburg. This business in particular has turned out to be a catastrophe.

Then we had the whole Badstuber and pavard saga. Badstuber let his contract run out to negotiate with CL clubs - turns out nobody wanted him and he got back to the Stuttgart table. At the same time the management was seemingly unsure whether they could keep pavard, although the continous price tag raising suggests they never wanted to sell. But I strongly believe they weren't 100% sure which is why they gave Badstuber an expensive longterm contract - VfB ended up with both at the club and now basically has three or almost four first choice CBs. A very disruptive situation.

At the same time no wingers were added.

So what happened: They brought in a guy limited to playing as a 10 with Korkut playing a 442. They sold one of the two proper CFs who was integral to the system. Korkut stuck to his 442 but wanted to tweak it to be more dominant and positive, but without proper wingers and a central playmaker this massively backfired. Furthermore, in his quest to implement his own style, Korkut apparently managed to coach any defensive structure out of the team. Also, they completely f*cked up fitness in pre-season - the team seems knackered after 25 minutes.

So yeah, we brought in a couple of promising youngsters, but failed to address any of the seriously pressing squad issues while bringing in some past it seniors and selling one of our key players - and Tayfun Korkut turned out to be useless for anything but the simplest kick and rush.

We will lose against Frankfurt next weekend. But then we have to start turning things around starting with 3 points against Nuremberg and a couple of draws until the winter break. Get Mangala back from HSV and add a proper winger or two. Then hope Weinzierl manages to get some players out of their form crisis and give the team a bit of structure, so we might get out of the relegation battle early.

That was incredibly informative, thanks!

Hopefully you manage to turn things around. Do you think these struggles are going to make it difficult to keep hold of Pavard and Ascacibar this summer? Or do you think they're probably going to be on their way out regardless (especially Pavard)?

 

[Toby]

That was incredibly informative, thanks!

Hopefully you manage to turn things around. Do you think these struggles are going to make it difficult to keep hold of Pavard and Ascacibar this summer? Or do you think they're probably going to be on their way out regardless (especially Pavard)?

Pavard is on his way out. He's suffering the typical post WC form crisis and is playing like a shadow of himself in this defensively unsettled team. His stock though is too high for teams to lose interest. Pretty sure he will kick back though.

Turns out keeping him was better for him than us. With the kind of displays he puts out right now he would have been sidelined at a bigger club by now. Seems a bit like he was taking that into account when staying, opting for an "solid" season with VfB. His head seems gonr though. With Badstuber and Kempf plus 40m to invest we would have been better off though I think.

With Ascacibar it depends on him. The way he plays right now, nobody will be interested in him. He has to turn it around and start performing again becoming a reliant and leading piece in the team cause he definitely has the talent. But right now it's sub Coquelin level. With his ability he just has to be someone who leads but he's dipped almost the most of the team.

 

[NieThePiet]

Drochtersen/Assel - Bayern 0:1
SV Rödlinghausen - Bayern 1:2

Bayern is crusing through this DFB Pocal this season. Incredible, how horrible they played today.

 

[Yousif Arsenal]

Nelson has scored again

 

[NieThePiet]

Bayern only 1:1 against Freiburg at home. Beautiful.

And Freiburg played with a B-Team, so many injuries they had.

 

[BobP]

http://www.espn.com/soccer/club/bor...-of-borussia-dortmunds-remarkable-renaissance

Watch Favre's Dortmund completely dismantle Bayern.

 

[<<reed>>]

Damn, those scandals in the Bayern camp are hilarious.

 

[Tir Na Nog]

NELLLLSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON

 

[Yousif Arsenal]

Our guy is killing it that's his 6 goal right?

 

[Yousif Arsenal]

 

[Lakersgooner24]

Bayern looking very vulnerable on the counter. Dortmund screwed up two golden countering opportunities already with Sancho delaying on the pass leading to a challenge when there was a man free in the middle, and Gotze playing a very poor ball when they had an odd man break (4-5 v 2).

Reus saved by Neuer after being clean through on goal as I typed. Very entertaining, fast-paced (bordering frenetic) and open game so far.

 

[Lakersgooner24]

Lewandowski scores from a great cross by Gnabry. Dortmund made to rue their missed chances, but deserved for Bayern who’ve controlled the majority of the match.

 

[WilshereGone]

Sancho playing really well 2nd half vs Bayern. Put absolute sitters on a plate for Reus and Alcacer after doing all the hard work, both missed.

 

[juice man]

Great game.

 

[<<reed>>]

wtf Sanches is still at Bayern?