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Granit Xhaka: Swiss Army Knife or Blunt Tool?

Will Xhaka be here after the summer window?

  • Yes

    Votes: 38 55.1%
  • No

    Votes: 31 44.9%

  • Total voters
    69
  • Poll closed .
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RacingPhoton

Established Member
They were both excellent in the final. More than one player at a time can have a good game. And usually a CM requires his partner to play well in order to have a good game himself.

So far all I've got in reply to my original question, aside from vague assertions, is the one pass you mentioned near the beginning of the final. Which required Pulisic to dribble a fair ways before being in a dangerous position, if I recall.

So it would appear that Xhaka has indeed improved in regard to big errors since Arteta took over. Hopefully it continues, as he'll be starting more games than just about anyone else if he's fit.
Chelsea were all over us for the first twenty minutes. Our midfield was non-existent and Chelsea bypassed us all the time.
If you come now two weeks after our last match and ask when he committed mistakes, how can anyone remember the exact details. Earlier, these errors were leading to goals and hence we could find that easily. After Arteta came, he set-up our defence in such a way that his mistakes won't cost us. If you want to find out the mistakes he made, you only have to read through old post-match messages in his thread.
He is good at headed clearances. If you take a compilation video of any player in that position, you will have so many interceptions. Last time someone brought up this topic of his clever positioning, we found out that statistically Flamini had way more interceptions per match than Xhaka. All these arguments have been done to death in his thread.
He is a mid-table level player and that's where we are now. If we want to progress, we want a big upgrade on him.
 

Football Manager

Copy & Paste Merchant
Chelsea were all over us for the first twenty minutes. Our midfield was non-existent and Chelsea bypassed us all the time.
If you come now two weeks after our last match and ask when he committed mistakes, how can anyone remember the exact details. Earlier, these errors were leading to goals and hence we could find that easily. After Arteta came, he set-up our defence in such a way that his mistakes won't cost us. If you want to find out the mistakes he made, you only have to read through old post-match messages in his thread.
He is good at headed clearances. If you take a compilation video of any player in that position, you will have so many interceptions. Last time someone brought up this topic of his clever positioning, we found out that statistically Flamini had way more interceptions per match than Xhaka. All these arguments have been done to death in his thread.
He is a mid-table level player and that's where we are now. If we want to progress, we want a big upgrade on him.
Flamini is a DM.
We should compare Flamini’s interception with another DM eg. Gattusso. Not a DLP like pirlo.

Xhaka is a DLP that needs a DM next to him. Like how pirlo needs a gattusso. No one says xhaka is anywhere near to a top defensive player, we praise/criticise him for his passing.

The first goal we conceded against Chelsea was because Laca was pressing, Pepe was pressing, Ceballos was also pushed up to press, but auba didn't press. If Auba also pressed, Chelsea would not be able to find their way out. However, chelsea were able to find the free man because we didn’t press collectively as a team. And because Chelsea were able to find the free man, and Ceballos was pushed up. We have left a big gap in the midfield, especially our front line was pressing high, but our defensive line stayed rather deep. Chelsea exploit the gap and eventually scored the goal. (I’m not blaming auba here, maybe Ceballos should have stayed deep if he sees auba didn’t press)

However, when Chelsea made the final pass of that goal, we already have enough numbers in the box. So that goal was a result of 1) we didn’t press collectively as a team 2) Chelsea’s players’ individual quality to get a goal, despite we have enough numbers in the box.

Yes, you do see the gaps. But you don’t know why there is a gap and don’t know who actually is there to be blamed.

Again, Xhaka is not top class, but he was doing pretty well for us, I would give him 7/10 for his passing and dictating tempo ability in the midfield, certainly not as bad as some here portraits him to be. If we have Roca/Tonali/Cuisance to replace him, it’s totally fine. If not then, I’m good with xhaka.
 
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DanDare

Emoji Merchant and Believer-In-Chief
Trusted ⭐

Player:Saliba
He's going to start most of our games next season so hopefully with the extra athleticism we're bringing into the team he can contribute the stuff he's decent at.
 

RacingPhoton

Established Member
Flamini is a DM.
We should compare Flamini’s interception with another DM eg. Gattusso. Not a DLP like pirlo.

Xhaka is a DLP that needs a DM next to him. Like how pirlo needs a gattusso. No one says xhaka is anywhere near to a top defensive player, we praise/criticise him for his passing.

The first goal we conceded against Chelsea was because Laca was pressing, Pepe was pressing, Ceballos was also pushed up to press, but auba didn't press. If Auba also pressed, Chelsea would not be able to find their way out. However, chelsea were able to find the free man because we didn’t press collectively as a team. And because Chelsea were able to find the free man, and Ceballos was pushed up. We have left a big gap in the midfield, especially our front line was pressing high, but our defensive line stayed rather deep. Chelsea exploit the gap and eventually scored the goal. (I’m not blaming auba here, maybe Ceballos should have stayed deep if he sees auba didn’t press)

However, when Chelsea made the final pass of that goal, we already have enough numbers in the box. So that goal was a result of 1) we didn’t press collectively as a team 2) Chelsea’s players’ individual quality to get a goal, despite we have enough numbers in the box.

Yes, you do see the gaps. But you don’t know why there is a gap and don’t know who actually is there to be blamed.

Again, Xhaka is not top class, but he was doing pretty well for us, I would give him 7/10 for his passing and dictating tempo ability in the midfield, certainly not as bad as some here portraits him to be. If we have Roca/Tonali/Cuisance to replace him, it’s totally fine. If not then, I’m good with xhaka.
You can't blame a goal on a forward not pressing. That's such a ridiculous excuse. It is the duty of defense and midfield. Our midfield was next to useless initially until they conceded a goal.
Can't go back again to this DLP argument. He hasn't really progressed the ball that well we be playing that role well. And what exactly did we get by letting him dictate the tempo? We have been slow as **** ever since he joined the team. He was a 4/10 player earlier and maybe a 6/10 player under Arteta. The only reason he is a regular starter is that our other options are a cry-baby who is homesick and a young midfielder with behaviour problems. That's the reason why buying good midfielders and phasing Xhaka out is very important this season.
 

Manberg

Predator
You can't blame a goal on a forward not pressing. That's such a ridiculous excuse. It is the duty of defense and midfield. Our midfield was next to useless initially until they conceded a goal.
Can't go back again to this DLP argument. He hasn't really progressed the ball that well we be playing that role well. And what exactly did we get by letting him dictate the tempo? We have been slow as **** ever since he joined the team. He was a 4/10 player earlier and maybe a 6/10 player under Arteta. The only reason he is a regular starter is that our other options are a cry-baby who is homesick and a young midfielder with behaviour problems. That's the reason why buying good midfielders and phasing Xhaka out is very important this season.

How about watching the goal and seeing it for yourself other than going “oh, the midfield was bypassed so it’s Xhaka’s fault”. Say specifically what Xhaka did wrong.
You’ll find that there were holes in our set up in the opening 20 minutes that Arteta had fixed during the game. Xhaka and Ceballos were pressing high up the pitch because they were following instructions.
 

Ash10

Chairman of the Bum Brigade
As always
tenor.gif
 

RacingPhoton

Established Member
How about watching the goal and seeing it for yourself other than going “oh, the midfield was bypassed so it’s Xhaka’s fault”. Say specifically what Xhaka did wrong.
You’ll find that there were holes in our set up in the opening 20 minutes that Arteta had fixed during the game. Xhaka and Ceballos were pressing high up the pitch because they were following instructions.
I never said that the goal was completely his fault. It is the fault of both defence and midfield. Chelsea were all over us in the first twenty minutes. It is not just the goal. Aren't you fan boys calling him a DLP? If your claim is true, what exactly is a DLP doing so much forward leaving the defence open?
 

Football Manager

Copy & Paste Merchant
You can't blame a goal on a forward not pressing. That's such a ridiculous excuse. It is the duty of defense and midfield. Our midfield was next to useless initially until they conceded a goal.
Can't go back again to this DLP argument. He hasn't really progressed the ball that well we be playing that role well. And what exactly did we get by letting him dictate the tempo? We have been slow as **** ever since he joined the team. He was a 4/10 player earlier and maybe a 6/10 player under Arteta. The only reason he is a regular starter is that our other options are a cry-baby who is homesick and a young midfielder with behaviour problems. That's the reason why buying good midfielders and phasing Xhaka out is very important this season.
Did I blame auba for not pressing?

I mean if we do press, the forwards and midfielders should press together. Forcing Chelsea to go long. And Luiz will win the aerial duels to get the possession back.

If our forwards are not pressing, our midfielders should not run up to press. Otherwise Chelsea will be able to find the free man (because we did not apply enough pressure). And our midfield will have gaps (as central midfielder were pushed up).
 

Manberg

Predator
I never said that the goal was completely his fault. It is the fault of both defence and midfield. Chelsea were all over us in the first twenty minutes. It is not just the goal. Aren't you fan boys calling him a DLP? If your claim is true, what exactly is a DLP doing so much forward leaving the defence open?

To deny Chelsea midfielders space and time on the ball. You can also ask what Lacazette the striker was doing deep in midfield - answer to that point is he was dragging Zouma or Rudiger out of position to free up Aubameyang. It’s all tactics.
 

RacingPhoton

Established Member
Did I blame him for not pressing?

I mean if we do press, the forwards and midfielders should press together. Forcing Chelsea to go long. And Luiz will win the aerial duels, to get our possession back.

If our forwards are not press, our midfielders should not run up to press. Otherwise Chelsea will be able to find the free man (because we did not apply enough pressure). And our midfield will have gaps (as central midfielder were pushed up).
Now you people are making stuff up. Please watch the video at 1:08. What exactly is Xhaka doing there? Who is he pressing? He was just standing and watching Jorginho passing to Pulisic.

And @blaze_of_glory I stumbled upon another Xhaka mistake when watching this video. Watch the video from 0:38.

He is the same player as he was before. He gives away the ball often. He doesn't really help us progress the ball forward. Arteta had to revert to back 3 to paper over the cracks in our midfield. We cannot keep doing that forever. If we are thinking about going back to top 4, we need to move on from Xhaka.
 

RacingPhoton

Established Member
To deny Chelsea midfielders space and time on the ball. You can also ask what Lacazette the striker was doing deep in midfield - answer to that point is he was dragging Zouma or Rudiger out of position to free up Aubameyang. It’s all tactics.
I posted a video in my previous post. Please remind me who he is pressing hard:lol:
Are you people imaging stuff?
 

Manberg

Predator
Now you people are making stuff up. Please watch the video at 1:08. What exactly is Xhaka doing there? Who is he pressing? He was just standing and watching Jorginho passing to Pulisic.

And @blaze_of_glory I stumbled upon another Xhaka mistake when watching this video. Watch the video from 0:38.

He is the same player as he was before. He gives away the ball often. He doesn't really help us progress the ball forward. Arteta had to revert to back 3 to paper over the cracks in our midfield. We cannot keep doing that forever. If we are thinking about going back to top 4, we need to move on from Xhaka.

That's actually Ceballos's fault. Didn't press Jorginho well at all. I suppose Xhaka should've looked to cut the passing lane to Pulisic. But this high press was a tactic from the start, we wanted to block out the middle and force the ball wide. For whatever reason it wasn't effective in the opening 20 minutes. I'm guessing it's due to Chelsea's relentless high intensity start and us not being prepared for it.
As for Xhaka losing the ball one time, that makes him a **** player right? As if top players never lose the ball when being pressed.
 

RacingPhoton

Established Member
That's actually Ceballos's fault. Didn't press Jorginho well at all. As for Xhaka losing the ball one time, that makes him a **** player right? As if top players never lose the ball when being pressed.
Your words: "Xhaka and Ceballos were pressing high up the pitch because they were following instructions."
Both of them were doing nothing. They were just watching the ball without much awareness about what the players behind them are doing. And watch what Xhaka is doing from that moment till the goal. Jogging back leisurely without trying to cover anyone. What exactly was he doing in the box? Not saying that he is the only one to blame. But he is as bad as the rest of the midfield and defensive dross we have. No sense of urgency. At least Ceballos compensates for his defensive frailties a bit with his attacking play. I am still not sure if Ceballos will take us forward. But compared to Xhaka, he is much better.
 

Manberg

Predator
Your words: "Xhaka and Ceballos were pressing high up the pitch because they were following instructions."
Both of them were doing nothing. They were just watching the ball without much awareness about what the players behind them are doing. And watch what Xhaka is doing from that moment till the goal. Jogging back leisurely without trying to cover anyone. What exactly was he doing in the box? Not saying that he is the only one to blame. But he is as bad as the rest of the midfield and defensive dross we have. No sense of urgency. At least Ceballos compensates for his defensive frailties a bit with his attacking play. I am still not sure if Ceballos will take us forward. But compared to Xhaka, he is much better.

Search youtube for videos explaining tactics in the game. You will see that the high press in midfield was intended.
 

RacingPhoton

Established Member
Search youtube for videos explaining tactics in the game. You will see that the high press in midfield was intended.
I just showed you a video proof of Xhaka doing nothing during that goal while his fanboys were claiming he was pressing. I very well understand the tactics you are saying. My point is Xhaka was not pressing high nor was he helping the team to defend during that goal.
 

Manberg

Predator
I just showed you a video proof of Xhaka doing nothing during that goal while his fanboys were claiming he was pressing. I very well understand the tactics you are saying. My point is Xhaka was not pressing high nor was he helping the team to defend during that goal.

I think you'll find that our team was unsettled in the first 20 minutes due to a combination of Chelsea's high intensity and their overloading of the midfield, as well as us being unprepared. It was fixed after the drinks break, in part by our attacking players Auba and Pepe coming deep to support the defensive side. Xhaka and Ceballos both then proceeded to do a great job.
 

Ifly_Gooner

Active Member
Xhaka. Problem is he's a very limited player. He has some of the best passing range in the game but in the modern game that's just not enough. He is very slow, not a clean tackler and terribly one footed. I guess he gets picked under different managers is probably because of the lack of options that we have in midfield. If not for Xhaka I don't see any midfielder bar Özil (who's an AM rather than CM) who can pass and control the tempo of the game. We need a more complete player than him.
 
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