Granit Xhaka: Time For Xhak To Hit The Road?

CaseUteinberger

Cazorla (not Cazorla ffs)
Xhaka can handle a press by most teams. Liverpool’s press yesterday was a different kind of press. They were tight on Xhaka at all times and didn’t allow him any space. It was their game plan. It speaks volumes for Xhaka’s quality that they focus on him like that. Nevertheless, let’s not pretend like he was one of the worst performers, that’s your agenda talking.
Mate, this is a pretty desperate way of spinning what took place. Better accept he struggled and hope he does better in the next game. That Liverpool press Xhaka hard isn’t a surprise as he isn’t good at beating it. You really are either confused or trying to spin. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and say it’s the latter. I will give you the same advice I think many Trump supporters need, don’t buy into spin and gaslighting!
 

Manberg

Predator
Mate, this is a pretty desperate way of spinning what took place. Better accept he struggled and hope he does better in the next game. That Liverpool press Xhaka hard isn’t a surprise as he isn’t good at beating it. You really are either confused or trying to spin. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and say it’s the latter. I will give you the same advice I think many Trump supporters need, don’t buy into spin and gaslighting!

I think I have a better than average IQ but I don’t know what spin and gaslighting is. Would you mind explaining it to me? Would be much appreciated.
 
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DJ_Markstar

Well-Known Member
Gaslighting is a deliberate attempt to make someone feel like they're crazy. Telling someone for e.g. that north London is white for e.g., when its obviously red, is gaslighting.

dictionary.com says "manipulate (someone) by psychological means into doubting their own sanity." @Manberg
 

DJ_Markstar

Well-Known Member
Mate, this is a pretty desperate way of spinning what took place. Better accept he struggled and hope he does better in the next game. That Liverpool press Xhaka hard isn’t a surprise as he isn’t good at beating it. You really are either confused or trying to spin. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and say it’s the latter. I will give you the same advice I think many Trump supporters need, don’t buy into spin and gaslighting!

Mate you can't beat a press on your own. You beat a press by having a good, quick option every time you receive the ball.

You may or may not have noticed that passing requires two players, and fundamentally "press resistance" is 50% a function of the player's individual ability to pass, and 50% his team mates ability to provide passing options.
 

say yes

Thread Title Abuser
Fwiw I think Elneny is a really poor partner for him in the big games. Neither can dribble, only Xhaka can pass forward, and they both occupy the same lateral which limits passing combinations through the middle.

Might work against the weaker teams when we've got enough time on the ball to work around them, but it's asking for trouble against a team like Liverpool who can press us up to the six yard box. It was the same under Wenger during Elneny's last stint here. They just don't suit each other.
 

celestis

Arsenal-Mania Veteran
Moderator
Fwiw I think Elneny is a really poor partner for him in the big games. Neither can dribble, only Xhaka can pass forward, and they both occupy the same lateral which limits passing combinations through the middle.

Might work against the weaker teams when we've got enough time on the ball to work around them, but it's asking for trouble against a team like Liverpool who can press us up to the six yard box. It was the same under Wenger during Elneny's last stint here. They just don't suit each other.

If you have those two in mid then you need Bergkamp , Henry and Pires ahead of them.
 

AbouCuéllar

Well-Known Member

RunTheTrap

In midfield with Cellabos
Xhaka can handle a press by most teams. Liverpool’s press yesterday was a different kind of press. They were tight on Xhaka at all times and didn’t allow him any space. It was their game plan. It speaks volumes for Xhaka’s quality that they focus on him like that. Nevertheless, let’s not pretend like he was one of the worst performers, that’s your agenda talking.
This level of propaganda would make Kim Jon Il proud. In football when you press a player it often means the opposition sees that player as a weakness, which ironically you seem to think Xhaka has no weakenesses.
 

Manberg

Predator
This level of propaganda would make Kim Jon Il proud. In football when you press a player it often means the opposition sees that player as a weakness, which ironically you seem to think Xhaka has no weakenesses.

If I think Xhaka has no weaknesses then you think he has no strengths. Xhaka can pass out of a press but he needs passing options in front of him. Otherwise it’s impossible for a player such as him.
 

Big Poppa

Established Member
Trusted
No offence but that's really not what press resistance is at all, you've described a mix of a team's tactical organisation and passing ability, in a discussion that's clearly about an individual's press resistance.

http://outsideoftheboot.com/2017/09/08/tactical-theory-strategic-importance-press-resistant-players/


guile
/ɡʌɪl/

noun
  1. sly or cunning intelligence.
    "he used all his guile and guts to free himself from the muddle he was in"

Santi Cazorla's probably the best I've ever seen at it. His injury and Xhaka's arrival as the mainstay of our midfield was one hell of a double whammy.
 

DJ_Markstar

Well-Known Member
No offence but that's really not what press resistance is at all, you've described a mix of a team's tactical organisation and passing ability, in a discussion that's clearly about an individual's press resistance.

http://outsideoftheboot.com/2017/09/08/tactical-theory-strategic-importance-press-resistant-players/

No offence but the article you linked literally agrees with me 100%, even down to the 50/50 analogy.

Nice try though :lol:

Direct quote from the article "Simply put, press resistance is the ability to maintain possession of the ball despite coming under pressure from the opposition."

Literally exactly what I said :lol::lol:

Also from the article:

"However, the one quality inherent in all truly press resistant players (apart from technical excellence of course) is awareness. An awareness of their surroundings at all times that enables them to make the best possible decisions for their teams whether it be passing to a more open team mate or dribbling out of pressure."

This part here is where I would say Xhaka is weak and could improve.
 

DJ_Markstar

Well-Known Member
This level of propaganda would make Kim Jon Il proud. In football when you press a player it often means the opposition sees that player as a weakness, which ironically you seem to think Xhaka has no weakenesses.

This isn't the purpose of a press at all, the purpose of a press is to suffocate the opposition into making either a) mistakes that they wouldn't normally make or b) increase the occurrence of mistakes that they normally would make.

If press wasn't effective at a high level against good opponents then Liverpool wouldn't bother with it at all against good opponents, and neither would the Barca team of 2012 onwards.
 

Camron

Established Member
Trusted
Xhaka and pressure. Name a worse duo.

He's been very solid under Mikel and definitely deserves praise for how he turned things around, but he is anything but press resistant.

His default move when more than 1 opponent is approaching him is collapse over the ball like an 80 year old that gets his walking cane kicked from under him. Of course you press him.
 

DJ_Markstar

Well-Known Member
Some of the **** I read here makes me :lol:

Xhaka obviously isn't good enough for a team with title ambitions but A-M make him out to be the Titus Bramble of 2020 :lol:
 

AbouCuéllar

Well-Known Member
"Simply put, press resistance is the ability to maintain possession of the ball despite coming under pressure from the opposition."

How is this^ the same as

fundamentally "press resistance" is 50% a function of the player's individual ability to pass, and 50% his team mates ability to provide passing options.

this? o_O

As I said before, you just described passing ability and a team's structural organisation, things that are related to press resistance but are not a definition of it at all.

If you look at the article your definition might have a bit more relevance to what the author calls 'collective press resistance'.

"However, the one quality inherent in all truly press resistant players (apart from technical excellence of course) is awareness. An awareness of their surroundings at all times that enables them to make the best possible decisions for their teams whether it be passing to a more open team mate or dribbling out of pressure."

Awareness, composure when a defender gets closer (see: Ceballos or any press resistant player), technical ability, passing ability under pressure--well, I've basically just described all of the things that make up press resistance, and Xhaka is poor at all of them bar perhaps technical ability, but in technical ability in terms of short control he is poor, indeed.

I just can't believe people are arguing such a clear-cut point. Xhaka is not press resistant, it's literally one of the defining characteristics of his game and something we've seen for years and years and years. Anyways, I give up, no need to muddy the waters on what really is just a basic fact.

Xhaka obviously isn't good enough for a team with title ambitions but A-M make him out to be the Titus Bramble of 2020 :lol:

Agree on the first point but not sure on the second. I like Xhaka and think he is a good player for a 5-10 side, and a decent squad player for a top side (for the zillionth time), but to point out a clear feature of his game (lack of press resistance) is not the same as making him out to be Titus Bramble...it's just fighting against a strange unfactual assertion people are making.
 
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DJ_Markstar

Well-Known Member
guile
/ɡʌɪl/

noun
  1. sly or cunning intelligence.
    "he used all his guile and guts to free himself from the muddle he was in"

Santi Cazorla's probably the best I've ever seen at it. His injury and Xhaka's arrival as the mainstay of our midfield was one hell of a double whammy.

Cazorla is one of the best ever at this narrow and specific attribute, a team of 10 Cazorla's could probably achieve 100% possession.
 

DJ_Markstar

Well-Known Member
How is this^ the same as



this? o_O

As I said before, you just described passing ability and a team's structural organisation, things that are related to press resistance but are not a definition of it at all.

If you look at the article your definition might have a bit more relevance to what the author calls 'collective press resistance'.



Awareness, composure when a defender gets closer (see: Ceballos or any press resistant player), technical ability, passing ability under pressure--well, I've basically just described all of the things that make up press resistance, and Xhaka is poor at all of them bar perhaps technical ability, but in technical ability in terms of short control he is poor, indeed.

I just can't believe people are arguing such a clear-cut point. Xhaka is not press resistant, it's literally one of the defining characteristics of his game and something we've seen for years and years and years. Anyways, I give up, no need to muddy the waters on what really is just a basic fact.

No worries mate, run off if you feel you need to.

I'm not just accepting something because you said it to be true, especially when it clearly isn't true. If you want to continue then I'll reply to the rest of the post.
 

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