Holy Cows

Discussion in 'Arsenal Talk' started by chris66, Dec 21, 2003.

  1. chris66

    chris66 New Member

    It is so strange how predictable so many of the discussions become - especially when we have a less than stellar performance (we did not lose remember)! Certainly the blame is always heaped on the same old suspects whilst others get very little criticism no matter how they play.

    Defensively it is always Cygan - he's to slow, weak...... In midfield it's Gilberto, who's doesn't get forward enough, kick enough people........

    WHilst these guys undoubtedly have their limitations I think to many of us look to blame them for failings elsewhere in the team.....The Holy Cows! Those above criticism because of their history of undoubted class and strong history of greatness. This doesn't mean they can't play like complete dunces on occasion though.

    Viera - was just terrible against Bolton yesterday - much worse than Gilberto. He isn't fit, was lucky to stay on the pitch as his tackles were often late and was played off the park by jorneymen players. He neither protected his back four nor added anything going forward.

    Campbell - one of the worst aerial displays ever yesterday. Under the high ball he was dreadful and his passing seems to get worse by the week. Reputation aside, he was not good.

    Henry - couldn't beat Simon Charlton for pace(!), over complicated the play and was rarely a threat. Not only needs a new partner, but also needs to realise that he can't take time off on the pitch whilst he is carrying the attacking burden.

    Don't get me wrong, I love all of these players. They are brilliant, skillfull and some of the best I have ever seen. But from time to time they play like turkeys and need to be pulled off in favour of someone else. Our weakness as a squad is exposed by our inability and unwillingness to do this when the occasion calls for it. We can carry one or perhaps two of them playing poorly, but when they all do (like yesterday), the team as a whole will play poorly.

    Endless debating of the frailties of our lesser stars whilst overlooking those of our better players, stops us all seeing how this team we love can improve. Cygan, Gilberto, Edu, Parlour, etc. are the players who will look good as part of a good team and less so when the team under performs. Every team in the world has players like this.

    The variable and what we should all realise is the performance of the Holy Cows. Let's talk about this instead.
  2. Adam

    Adam New Member Elite

    What you have said there may be reasoning for a poor performance yesterday. But this is something that is shot term. What is definitely long term is that Cygan and Gilberto are not up to the standard of AFC and should not be in the starting 11. Especially when Keown and Parlour are on the bench. Despite footballing inadequacies; they bring a confidence that we will win a match with them in the side. Perform poorly and win. I am not so convinced that Cygan and Gilberto allow us to play poorly and win because of their mentalities and commitment. Evidence of last year and this year suggests as much.

    Parlour and Keown were our winners in 01/02. Remember Anfield? Remember any game away when we needed a result when on the back foot?

    The underlying question is - will Cygan and Gilberto help us to be winners in 03/04 and overcome the problems they had in 02/03 in helping us to sustain leads?
  3. kazu

    kazu New Member Elite

    What you said is very true... but the opposite can also be right: when the team performs, we can tolerate their mistakes... but when the team doesn't, we can't rely on them...

    we can't just expect the 'Holy Cows' to win every game on their own... didn't watch the game against leiceister, but gilberto seemed to have played above his normal self that night.. wish he could turn it on on a more regular basis though... :(

    i guess for gilberto is that most of the critics would rather have edu or parlour in his place... but enough comparisions and debate has been made...
  4. Alexone234

    Alexone234 New Member

    lets not forget that Bolton beat Chelski last weekend and are a useful side. Fat Sam has built a decent side and if you;re not on your game you can lose against them.

    This dip in form is by all players at the same time, which should mean all our players should be ready for peak performances from Mid-Jan onwards.
  5. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    until cygan & gilberto are replace we will not win much and struggle
  6. Arsenal316

    Arsenal316 New Member Elite

    Uh, we have won with Cygan and Gilberto in the line-up. Get your facts straight before making such an inaccurate statement.
  7. neebz

    neebz New Member

    To be very frank, i beleive it was because of some extra ordinary performance by Bolton.
    Arsenal werent expecting this at all but Bolton performed brilliantly.
    If we look as a neutral, its clear that it was a draw because of a great performance by the Bolton side, instead of the under-performance of Arsenal. They never reeally allowed us to get into the flow. If only once we had the domination after the goal was scored even Bolton's ancestors could'nt had scored the equalizer. We dominated the game in the starting second half minutes and scored. Should've had the same domination after the goal as well.
    Bolton were mere a shadow of the team which played Manchester United on the opening day of the season (which they lost 4-0).

    One thing hitting me is that Wenger should be ready of such hiccups. Special tactics shoud've been adopted in the second half when we saw Bolton dominating the first half. Arsenal had the best period of the game in the opening second half but failed to continue it after the goal. They should've had absorbed the pressure and continued to play the same way.

    To put the facts straight i sincerely thing it was more of Bolton's fault than Arsenal's that we had a draw :)

    If you start talking of draws then Arsenal should've won Leicester City or Fulham matches instead of this.

  8. jigga

    jigga New Member


    what like this :lol:

    seriously though.....

    cygan is terrible, and we could do with some one that knows how to go into tackles not like gilberto who just tackles standing up.....


    I think our problems lie more to the fact that we are seeing a trend on the so called smaller clubs in the premiership "upping their game" and not just against us. we can be fantastic every game. id love to see us play the way we did in 2001-2002 but we suprised alot of teams playingt he way we did... alot of times ive seen arsenal play recently the teams will come to defend. The worst culprit being foolham. ive never seen such a one sided affair.[/img]
  9. vin de guerre

    vin de guerre New Member

    Henry_14 get a bew record...boring
    Gilberto can do no right....I suggest you go back to Old ratford where you belong
  10. Webdesignlab

    Webdesignlab New Member

    Every town in India I visited I saw this.

    One of the funniest things was a funeral prosession which was split by two donkeys going for it BIG time. It was a really narrow street in Udaipur. I laughed until my sides split. The families never looked shocked at all and looked at me like "who is the strange westener who thinks 2 donkey f**king is funny?".
  11. Points well worth making, but don't agree about Campbell. I was there, and it was almost always Cygan who Davies managed to beat in the air. Vieira and DB had poor games, but Henry was making all the right runs and not getting much help, so I don't think it is really fair to blame him either. I still really can't see why GS gets in the team ahead of Edu, but I do recall (from some time ago) that GS is the one Paddy likes to play alongside, which has got to count for something
  12. thierrys_girl

    thierrys_girl New Member

    yeah, get your facts right. Cygan and Gilberto may not be the best players in our team but we dont have the funds right now to replace them with better players, we have to make do with what we have and so far Wenger has done a very good job with the funds with have.
  13. Piston Broke

    Piston Broke New Member

    I still think Gilberto Needs Time to Adjust where Cygan is just Average at least you can see the odd Moments of Brilliance all be them rare with Gilberto but all i ever do when cygan is near the Ball is Cringe with Terror
  14. Taozhe

    Taozhe New Member Trusted

    Cygan didnt play that Bad. All it take is one mistake and boom.

    Although I admit ... in this game .. which I watch in full .. gilberto was the one that made horror displays when attacking. But defensively he has helped out a lot ... u haf some good ... some bad. ;P
  15. KoLo28

    KoLo28 New Member

    Gilberto played alot better then vieira, so stop blaming him and cygan did not play that bad, i think we should stop pointing the finger at certain players and come to grips with the fact that the team as whole didn't function at its optimum level. Bolton are a good side, and teams have there off days, atleast we didn't lose.

    Let's just look forward to Wolves and hope this acts as a wake up call to the 'team' (not gilberto & cygan) that we need to give 100% as a team for the whole 90 minutes.
  16. Mbaki Mutahaba

    Mbaki Mutahaba New Member Trusted

    well said mate!!!Lets just get behind our team. People forget that there is a fan out there who will go to the next game after having visited the forum..and read all about cygan..gilberto..So his focus is on the players and any screw up..you the first one to booo him. And that does not BENEFIT the team at all. Some people actually comment on a player's performance based on 5 minutes of highlights. I REALLY DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW ONE CAN DO THAT. If this was my site i would restrict comments on player ratings after a game only to those who watched the game!!!!!!!! There is more to a player's contribution then what you do with the BALL.
  17. NooNe

    NooNe New Member

    agree! get behind the team ppl
  18. chris66

    chris66 New Member

    Amazing - I started this thread to discuss aspects of the team performance rather than another slag fest of Gilberto and Cygan - and what did it become....More people slagging Gilberto and Cygan!

    Come on people there is more to discuss than these two.
  19. Andrew

    Andrew New Member

    Yes, we should treat all players equally. I try my best to do it. I for one can't decide who should partner Vieira because I like Edu, Parlour and Gilberto. I also am very comfortable when Cygan plays. I thought last match he didn't play well but other forum members made me realise that as a whole team we didn't defend well, which had nothing to do with Cygan. I kinda felt like I was scapegoating there as well. But the bottom line is, no matter who plays we should support them and not just slag certain players off. A lot of people seem to have a grudge against one or two of our players and that should stop.

    BTW, do you think Wiltord is totally out of favour now? He wasn't even on the bench against Bolton. :?
  20. Jinn

    Jinn New Member Elite

    Yes, I'm thinking that Wiltord is on his way out.

    But that fact that we aren't signing anyone to replace him could mean that he's going to sit on his contract until it runs out. Then we'd find someone in the summer.

    Either that, or there aren't any good striking targets out there.

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