Is a dedicated deep-lying playmaker essential to our game?

[Vinci]

First of all, this is not a dig at Santi, who has done admirably as a central midfielder, but lacks some vital attributes for the position.

Anyway, do we need that playmaker in front of our defence to take the ball from the centre backs and distribute it around or are we better off sacrificing some of these attributes for a different kind of player? Our centre backs aren't known for their great distribution, so not having a playmaker deep could slow down our transition from defence to attack, but perhaps Özil could pick up those responsibilities by dropping a bit deeper if necessary?

Share what you think would be the best options for the two deepest midfield positions and what effect that will have on our attacking (and defensive) play.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

I don't think so. People are making it out like it is hard task to bring the ball from midfield too Özil and Only Cazorla can do that.

I think the main reason this myth started is because Giroud is our striker. With Giroud up front other teams can press our midfield more easily and it gets harder for midfield to get the ball were we want to in the attack.

Wenger solution instead of dropping Giroud as our starter was bringin Cazorla to the midfield who usually handle pressure very well. I think that experiment has fail badly.

 

[MutableEarth]

I think having someone able to win the ball back is the base minimum as far as deep midfield goes - whether that's from tackling or great positioning, preferably both.

A player with attributes similar to that of a deeper lying playmaker would greatly enhance our play, and strengthen our ability to control matches. Every time I watch our matches, we very rarely maintain control at crucial moments - if we don't score first/early, there's always that threat that we may lose control of the game. It is one of the reasons why the PL is as open as it is - even the top teams are failing to control matches. The closest is United, but they are such a rigid team that they very rarely even create chances to even take advantage of that "control".

One of the reasons why Santi and Coquelin have done so well is because both players are press resistant on the ball and can create transitional situations because of their dribbling. Neither control games though, and while Coquelin gives us defensive stability and Santi takes responsibility on the ball with his passing, there will always be situations where one player carries the other.

What made Arteta a good player for us when he first came was his ability to control the tempo of matches. He steadied the midfield and had the right relationship with the CBs and the rest of the midfield. Because of his ability to pass between the lines and positional awareness in defense and attack, he was incredibly important to us in the season he was signed and the one after.

It's my opinion that a DLP-like plauer is the most suitable player depending on the type of team we want to be. It should not be at the expense of ball-winning in midfield, and any player we sign shouldn't necessarily be an out-and-out DLP who cannot defend. We have to find the right balance between the two to place in our midfield. There are players available who can do this, so it is not impossible to find.

 

[Gooner Zig]

Probably get flamed for this but I don't see anything in the Santi-Coq partnership. We still go through large periods of games where we lose control of the midfield.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

Probably get flamed for this but I don't see anything in the Santi-Coq partnership. We still go through large periods of games where we lose control of the midfield.

It is a band average midfield pairing, and not one that is going to win us the league.

 

[MutableEarth]

Probably get flamed for this but I don't see anything in the Santi-Coq partnership. We still go through large periods of games where we lose control of the midfield.

No, I see why you say that. I've made a lot of posts in Coquelin's thread about both Coquelin and his partnership with Santi - they are good at transitions but it can be nulified if you cut off both their passing lanes with a good, organized, compact shape. The fact that we have a strong dribbling team does mitigate that, fortunately, but even the best dribblers turn the ball over.

Part of the problem, as Hydro pointed out, is the lack of movement up top. Walcott creating the amount of space that he did gave the rest of the team room to operate further up the field. Giroud so far this season has more or less just.......well, been in the way. It feels as though the team are outgrowing Giroud at the moment. His goals, while greatly welcomed, have overshadowed that, to an extent.

However, in the event that we struggle to take the game to an opponent, it then becomes problematic if we also have nobody to take control adequately in the middle of the park. I really like Santi as a player, but I'm not sure he does that. His combination play and his technical ability manage to mitigate that, to the point that I'm sure there will be those that disagree. Then you have the issue of Coquelin - much improved but his primary mode in the team is "ball-winner". He forces turnovers then does his part in recycling the ball. What he does is important because it gives us defensive solidity without being so bad on the ball he prevents us from creating chances, but again, we do not nulify teams before their attacks take formation.

 

[Rex Stone]

I still think Ramsey should be our starting midfielder, I like him and Coquelin in there together. I understand what Santi but Ramsey and Coq gives us dynamism, strength but still quality passing.

Until Coq returns I'd bin Flamini off and just play Ramsey with Santi in a double pivot. they can't be worse defensively than him and it means we can put some pace out wide.

 

[Jury]

Flamini today... dear o ****ing dear.

Yes, of course we need one, and our game very much depends on it. I thought that much was one of the most obvious observations one could make about this team. Even Wenger acknowledges it--not that that means anything at all these days. He just makes what noises he thinks sounds good until the next clusterfuck.

 

[Vinci]

Yes, of course we need one, and our game very much depends on it. I thought that much was one of the most obvious observations one could make about this team.

Say, if Santi is out injured and you had the choice between Jack and Aaron for the position you'd go for Jack?

 

[Jury]

Say, if Santi is out injured and you had the choice between Jack and Aaron for the position you'd go for Jack?

I think Jack is easily better suited technically for the role, but Aaron has the engine. I'd use Jack, because even if he wont get about as well as Aaron, I know he'd transition better, and we'd keep the ball away from the opposition for longer, which is a good way of defending!

 

[Godwin1]

I still think Ramsey should be our starting midfielder, I like him and Coquelin in there together. I understand what Santi but Ramsey and Coq gives us dynamism, strength but still quality passing.

Until Coq returns I'd bin Flamini off and just play Ramsey with Santi in a double pivot. they can't be worse defensively than him and it means we can put some pace out wide.

Ramsey has to play there really I don't see him spending the rest of his career out on the wing. It's a bit of a waste of his talents and a waste to not bring in a good RW.

 

[RandyMarsh]

Ramsey has to play there really I don't see him spending the rest of his career out on the wing. It's a bit of a waste of his talents and a waste to not bring in a good RW.

Yeah let's not buy a top RW because we have 5 CM's that can play out there.

Ramsey needs to get back into CM- and quickly.

 

[Furious]

Absolutely essential, look for Manure for proof, steril possession football because their DLP are **** and certified sideways passers.

As for Rasmey, his technical skillset in the middle is Liverpool level, therefore he and Coq are a no-go together. If we sign someone like Xhaka, we could live with Ramsey's elephant first touch, and he could concentrate on B2B-ing, while Xhaka dictates the play and dominates.

 

[Rex Stone]

Absolutely essential, look for Manure for proof, steril possession football because their DLP are **** and certified sideways passers.

As for Rasmey, his technical skillset in the middle is Liverpool level, therefore he and Coq are a no-go together. If we sign someone like Xhaka, we could live with Ramsey's elephant first touch, and he could concentrate on B2B-ing, while Xhaka dictates the play and dominates.

Dafuq!?

 

[Furious]

Dafuq!?

Yeah, he's capable of it for sure, but not consistently. Same as with Bale, who regularly gets found out in the clasico's.

You either have or you don't, top players usually do.

 

[Godwin1]

Yeah that's the reason why Cazorla is playing CM. Ramsey's best position is CM though so we really need someone who's good at what's going on behind him as well as being able to dictate play. Wilshere if he ever gets fit for a spell also has to be factored in CM.

I can't see Wenger ever sorting this out in his remaining Arsenal years tbh.

 

[Gooner Zig]

Ramsey has amazing technical ability when it's on but he goes from Özil-esque technique to bottom 6 PL midfielder technique in two differing passages of play.

 

[tim08]

I think Santi is quite simply a wonderful football player. He will go down as one of my favourite Arsenal football players, he's as two footed as you could ever wish to see, technically superb, can pass both short and deep, can dribble in any tight space, thread through balls that not many can see let alone play, whilst for his size he can be surprisingly tenacious.

And yes I think a player of his ilk is very important to play deep the DLP in our system. Coquelin and Ramsey are both fantastic players, but they wouldn't work in a two with how we want to play, as neither of them set the tempo of our passing. Coquelin is at the beginning of things, ie aggressively winning the ball back or intercepting, whilst Ramsey is at his best at the end of a move, ie showcasing a brilliantly timed run into the box to finish off an attack. Neither of them are natural players of simply having the ball and setting the tempo of the game. That is where Cazorla is so effective, and Arteta too once upon a time when he actually had some legs and mobility.

The problem with Cazorla is he requires somebody alongside him to 'look after him' if you like. An enforcer who can wins the physical duels, does the dirty work and lets Cazorla do what he does best. The problem right now is that Flamini is a very poor imitator of Coquelin, whilst due to our injury crisis Cazorla has already been overworked and looks very jaded. People forget he is the wrong side of 30 and it cant be easy playing in the engine room in such as physically demanding league when it is a relatively new position for you. But due to Wenger's failure in the summer, Cazorla has to play game after game with no breather, whilst has to now do even extra yards due to having Flamini alongside him. Of course his performances will drop.

 

[celestis]

Dafuq!?

Loving these wing highlights

 

[Taylor Gang Gunners]

I can't get over Mathieu Flamini man. Seriously guys? He can't get the basic fundamentals of the game right. He's absolutely hopeless, barely a footballer atm. Like I said earlier, he's more like a competition winner. He runs around screaming and shouting, affecting NOTHING.

Man, who could've seen this coming aye.