Is The Premier League Tougher Than It Used To Be?

Is It?


  • Total voters
    76

Riou

Average Community Shield Enjoyer
No.

Both prime Arsène Wenger and prime Michael Jordan, would be the best managers in the Premiership today.
 

RacingPhoton

❤️ Xhaka ❤️
On the topic itself, on absolute ability, Premier League is indeed tougher than before. Teams have more money which lets them buy better players, better scouting technology. better coaching facilities etc.

Unless a league is going through massive financial turmoil, any league will make progress in absolute ability. For example, Wenger revolutionised football coaching by introducing Diet and nutrition changes. Within a few years, every other club had to copy it. So, the League is technically more stronger than before even though the League table won't tell you that story because almost every team started following it. Any team that didn't adapt that new method would have fallen behind.

So yes. As long as money is available, clubs will make progress and become tougher to beat. Top 4 teams have to adapt and reshape themselves for new challenges. That's what happened in the Premier League.
 

AberGooner

Established Member
Trusted ✔️
Impossible to tell for certain without a time machine, I certainly wouldn't say it's any tougher though.

Chelsea/United weaker than they where in years gone by whilst City have flipped places with us and really established themselves. We're currently at the level they where when Sven and Hughes where in charge. Liverpool I'd gauge on whether you prefer Klopp or Benitez's squads.

Everything below top 4 has remained much and such the same as always but with slightly different sides. The current Leicester side aren't any better or worse than Moyes' Everton for example. Jol's Sp**s about the same level as now and you could compare West Ham to O'Neill's Villa.
 

Blankety Blank

Well-Known Member
Wages? Here's the total investment in premier league players between 2004 and 2016 from Transfermarkt. Sp**s outspent us because of the stadium build. There were 5 teams spending more than Arsenal.
432-F1-DAC-572-A-42-EA-858-D-13-FADC5-C7146.jpg
I think that is a fair point but you also have to consider how good our squad was in 2004. Clubs had to spend a lot simply to close the gap. Eventually they did & then overtook us. It certainly wasnt an overnight thing. Now we would have to spend circa £250m to catch up with Liverpool & more to get near Man City/Chelsea.

Leicester have a comparable squad to us now that is just a fact.

Using ur choice transfermarket

Our squad is currently valued at £493m
Leicester £495m
Sp**s £627m

Liverpool & the top 4 are way ahead.

Everton are closer to us £415m than we are to Sp**s.

So realistically right now we should compete with Leicester for 6th

We have to accept that In the last 5 or 6 years Leicester & Sp**s overtook us

Unfortunately although hard to take we cannot deny it happened.

Arsène may have been able to hold the floodgates back for a while but Leicester won the title when he was here & Sp**s also overtook us & got to a champions league final not long ago.

I absolutely think the premier league is stronger now btw,
4 different English UCL finalists in the last 3 years.
 
Last edited:

Emeryates

Professional Troll
No

Only reasons fans say this is because Sky keeps calling every year as the toughest the league has ever been.

Would a 36 year old Ronaldo start for United in the early 2000's? Would McTominay be near the team?

Would Xhaka be near Arsenal? Would Lacazette? Would Mustafi? Would Holding be a guaranteed starter?

PL is same strength is always, we've just gotten worse.
 

Atlas

Lost a sausage bet on Xhaka 😭
Is it tougher to survive in the league? I don’t know because I don’t care about the clubs at the bottom of the league. I couldn’t tell you which clubs were promoted and relegated last season either.

Is it tougher to finish top 4? I think its pretty clear that there are now 7 teams that aim to finish top 4 and have a realistic chance of doing so. This is similar to serie A in the late 90s and early 00s when they also had 7 clubs going for it. To finish in the top 4 has never been tougher. The rest of the league I don’t know and don’t care about.
 

Ciscoo

Active Member
It’s better now on most measures, I think.

Talent- Way better across the league. Top 4/6 and survival has never been more difficult. The 00s had more standout players, but there were more favourable conditions to stand out in.

Managers- Again, better now overall. We have some future all time greats, and many of the best 00s managers are still in and around the PL. The 00s/10s had a big problem with the British managerial merry-go round. We’ve largely done away with them now.

Champions league- Our performances are as good as ever. 5 finalists in the last 5 years. The only year we didn’t have one was during that weird COVID tournament.

International standing- This one is a bit more complex. Germany is much stronger. France is slightly stronger. Italy was weaker but is coming back. Spain has a weaker top 2 but a stronger Atletico and top 6. I don’t know about Portugal. All I can say is that our international standing looks more secure than Spain’s post COVID.
 

Lady_Gooner

Posting While Meditating
Trusted ✔️
This, alongside the GOAT arguments in sport are completely pointless. There are too many factors.. money, technology, science, the way football was reffed, heck even the way fans engage with football… the list could actually go on. Too many variables to say whether the league is easier/harder or whatever.

One thing that’s for sure though is it’s definitely more boring and I’m not even saying that cos we’re ****.
Wenger had the right idea with the whole express yourself stuff. Can’t deal with the likes of pep screaming cos a player is 9cm too far from the touch line
 

Riou

Average Community Shield Enjoyer
You have absolute jokers in Lampard and Ole getting Top Four the last few seasons, as managers...how is it harder exactly :lol:
 

Macho

Has Trust Issues With Processes
Trusted ✔️
This, alongside the GOAT arguments in sport are completely pointless. There are too many factors.. money, technology, science, the way football was reffed, heck even the way fans engage with football… the list could actually go on. Too many variables to say whether the league is easier/harder or whatever.

One thing that’s for sure though is it’s definitely more boring and I’m not even saying that cos we’re ****.
Wenger had the right idea with the whole express yourself stuff. Can’t deal with the likes of pep screaming cos a player is 9cm too far from the touch line
Omg RT.
 

Camus

Well-Known Member
Dean Smith is indeed a good british manager, he is the one I rate highest after Graham Potter.
Up until this August he had the highest net spend in the entirety of European football over the past 2 seasons. What did he have to show for it? 17th place PL finish by the skin of his teeth and bottom half PL finish last season. From January onwards they were actually 14th on PPG.


Pointless arguing with you. You are just an agenda merchant.
What "agenda" do I have exactly? You're the freak that STILL types Emery's name out like a curse word. I have zero issues with Arteta on a personal level. Zero. I'd be elated for him if by some miracle he defied all logical and he went on some 34 PL game winning streak and won the PL. My mindset is not "I want Arteta to fail, that brings me joy". I'm simply being realistic, rational and sane and living in a reality that wont see that happen. I'm living in a reality whereby Arteta has demonstrated over a prolonged period time, over a more than large enough sample size, that he does not have the requisite ability to have this club where it needs to be and instead contributes to its decline. So I want him to leave/be sacked. I don't see how I can be classed as an "agenda merchant" in any shape of form for having a view like that.

You are invested in the Em*ry / Arteta thing when I am not even making that argument, lol, and confirmation biasing your way into the argument that defends you against this perceived argument that I'm not even making.

1) You're the one that initially replied to @Oxeki when he made the Emery point. So when you reply to someone that brings up this point/argument it's fine, but when I do it's some weird "investment".... Moron.
2) You've literally made this argument numerous times in the past. Playing intentionally obtuse now as if you don't know where it's come from or why you're being attributed these views is pathetic on your part.

The Em*ry argument is a totally different one and I've laid out my reasons for that.
You literally cited as one of the reasons/barometer for judging the quality of the league was the amount of “importation of superior foreign managers”. This point has absolutely zero merit since as I clearly pointed out last season basically half the league was managed terrible British managers. You want to try and desperately shill this narrative then go ahead, just use a reason that isn’t so laughably easily refutable.

You are just obsessed there and pushing a massive agenda because the last time we had that argument you made pages worth of posts and still managed to fail to even mention or recognise one of the most important points in the whole discussion (where Em*ry picked the club up in terms of result and performance level compared to the rest of the league; where Arteta picked the club up in terms of results and performance level compared to the rest of the league).
So Emery achieved better results than Arteta in his 1st season, pure and simple in black and white totally irrefutable cold hard facts, and yet you‘re the mental case that continually refuse to even acknowledge this simple point yet I’m the one with an “agenda”
Brady Bunch Jan GIF by MOODMAN

Can you project a little less pleas mate, the desperation is starting to reek

You do realise this works directly in favour of my point, lol?

That a manager like Redknapp could finish 4th twice is a perfect example of how the league has evolved significantly.
That a club like West Ham and a manager like David Moyes could finish 6th and seriously challenge for 4th is a perfect example of how poor the league was last season.

That a manager like Lampard could achieve 4th two seasons ago is a perfect example of how poor the league was that season.

That a manager like Ole could get 3rd and 2nd respectively over the past two seasons is a perfect example of how poor the league was the past two seasons.

Etc...

Do you see the circular, logically selective and unsubstantiated line of reasoning you’re engaging in? Anyone can do it. It’s utterly worthless. Engage your brain champ.
 

Xillin

Xhaka 🔛, Telly 🔨
Up until this August he had the highest net spend in the entirety of European football over the past 2 seasons. What did he have to show for it? 17th place PL finish by the skin of his teeth and bottom half PL finish last season. From January onwards they were actually 14th on PPG.



What "agenda" do I have exactly? You're the freak that STILL types Emery's name out like a curse word. I have zero issues with Arteta on a personal level. Zero. I'd be elated for him if by some miracle he defied all logical and he went on some 34 PL game winning streak and won the PL. My mindset is not "I want Arteta to fail, that brings me joy". I'm simply being realistic, rational and sane and living in a reality that wont see that happen. I'm living in a reality whereby Arteta has demonstrated over a prolonged period time, over a more than large enough sample size, that he does not have the requisite ability to have this club where it needs to be and instead contributes to its decline. So I want him to leave/be sacked. I don't see how I can be classed as an "agenda merchant" in any shape of form for having a view like that.



1) You're the one that initially replied to @Oxeki when he made the Emery point. So when you reply to someone that brings up this point/argument it's fine, but when I do it's some weird "investment".... Moron.
2) You've literally made this argument numerous times in the past. Playing intentionally obtuse now as if you don't know where it's come from or why you're being attributed these views is pathetic on your part.


You literally cited as one of the reasons/barometer for judging the quality of the league was the amount of “importation of superior foreign managers”. This point has absolutely zero merit since as I clearly pointed out last season basically half the league was managed terrible British managers. You want to try and desperately shill this narrative then go ahead, just use a reason that isn’t so laughably easily refutable.


So Emery achieved better results than Arteta in his 1st season, pure and simple in black and white totally irrefutable cold hard facts, and yet you‘re the mental case that continually refuse to even acknowledge this simple point yet I’m the one with an “agenda”
Brady Bunch Jan GIF by MOODMAN

Can you project a little less pleas mate, the desperation is starting to reek


That a club like West Ham and a manager like David Moyes could finish 6th and seriously challenge for 4th is a perfect example of how poor the league was last season.

That a manager like Lampard could achieve 4th two seasons ago is a perfect example of how poor the league was that season.

That a manager like Ole could get 3rd and 2nd respectively over the past two seasons is a perfect example of how poor the league was the past two seasons.

Etc...

Do you see the circular, logically selective and unsubstantiated line of reasoning you’re engaging in? Anyone can do it. It’s utterly worthless. Engage your brain champ.
League is much harder than 10 years ago cause PL in that time was tactically inept. Wenger's tactics were exposed in UCL, other teams from PL were bottling it as well in UCL or fluke a win with their park the bus strat.

Foreign coaches came in and lifted this garbage competition up to the point where suddenly english teams are consistently battling it out in europa and the english national team, even, can somewhat play disciplined and good football at times.
 

CaseUteinberger

A-M's brilliant, yet humble Xhaka-stan 😍
On the topic itself, on absolute ability, Premier League is indeed tougher than before. Teams have more money which lets them buy better players, better scouting technology. better coaching facilities etc.

Unless a league is going through massive financial turmoil, any league will make progress in absolute ability. For example, Wenger revolutionised football coaching by introducing Diet and nutrition changes. Within a few years, every other club had to copy it. So, the League is technically more stronger than before even though the League table won't tell you that story because almost every team started following it. Any team that didn't adapt that new method would have fallen behind.

So yes. As long as money is available, clubs will make progress and become tougher to beat. Top 4 teams have to adapt and reshape themselves for new challenges. That's what happened in the Premier League.
I find it amusing how anyone on the one hand can argue that squad costs are the best indicator of where a team should end up, while at the same time deny that when more money flows into the league, and to all teams, and so raising squad costs overall, that this fact doesn't mean the league overall becomes better and more competitive.

Not sure I follow that logic, but there we are... I must be missing something. Ohhh... now I remember, it's Wenger!
 

Kav

Well-Known Member
Up until this August he had the highest net spend in the entirety of European football over the past 2 seasons. What did he have to show for it? 17th place PL finish by the skin of his teeth and bottom half PL finish last season. From January onwards they were actually 14th on PPG.



What "agenda" do I have exactly? You're the freak that STILL types Emery's name out like a curse word. I have zero issues with Arteta on a personal level. Zero. I'd be elated for him if by some miracle he defied all logical and he went on some 34 PL game winning streak and won the PL. My mindset is not "I want Arteta to fail, that brings me joy". I'm simply being realistic, rational and sane and living in a reality that wont see that happen. I'm living in a reality whereby Arteta has demonstrated over a prolonged period time, over a more than large enough sample size, that he does not have the requisite ability to have this club where it needs to be and instead contributes to its decline. So I want him to leave/be sacked. I don't see how I can be classed as an "agenda merchant" in any shape of form for having a view like that.



1) You're the one that initially replied to @Oxeki when he made the Emery point. So when you reply to someone that brings up this point/argument it's fine, but when I do it's some weird "investment".... Moron.
2) You've literally made this argument numerous times in the past. Playing intentionally obtuse now as if you don't know where it's come from or why you're being attributed these views is pathetic on your part.


You literally cited as one of the reasons/barometer for judging the quality of the league was the amount of “importation of superior foreign managers”. This point has absolutely zero merit since as I clearly pointed out last season basically half the league was managed terrible British managers. You want to try and desperately shill this narrative then go ahead, just use a reason that isn’t so laughably easily refutable.


So Emery achieved better results than Arteta in his 1st season, pure and simple in black and white totally irrefutable cold hard facts, and yet you‘re the mental case that continually refuse to even acknowledge this simple point yet I’m the one with an “agenda”
Brady Bunch Jan GIF by MOODMAN

Can you project a little less pleas mate, the desperation is starting to reek


That a club like West Ham and a manager like David Moyes could finish 6th and seriously challenge for 4th is a perfect example of how poor the league was last season.

That a manager like Lampard could achieve 4th two seasons ago is a perfect example of how poor the league was that season.

That a manager like Ole could get 3rd and 2nd respectively over the past two seasons is a perfect example of how poor the league was the past two seasons.

Etc...

Do you see the circular, logically selective and unsubstantiated line of reasoning you’re engaging in? Anyone can do it. It’s utterly worthless. Engage your brain champ.
I honestly enjoy reading this forum when Camus kills people like this. Such a thorough extermination.

Keep up the good work!
 
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