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Is The Premier League Tougher Than It Used To Be?

Is It?


  • Total voters
    91

CaseUteinberger

Big aficionado of Xhaka Redemption Arc ❤
The thing is when discussing if the league is hard nor or before the same points people use to justify their positions can equally be used by the opposing party to refute it. It's a tricky thing to discuss imo, I don't even know where to being to get even a semi-objective/quantifiable metric of how you would judge it.
How about simply using the leagues overall squad cost and how that has increased over time? With that metric you could also look at the relationship between the top 4s squad cost compared to the rest of the league and how that ratio has changed over time.

If we agree that squad cost has a strong correlation to squad quality and to where your team should end up league position wise, then this is the metric to use. As so much money has been pumped into the league over the period it should in my view have improved the overall quality of the league.
 

Riou

English Super Cup Enjoyer 🤗
I remember in 2004/2005, a newly promoted Palace side got a well earned draw against a peak Arsène side.

Results like that have always happened in the league.

The Premiership has always been strong, some of you underestimate how good the "smaller" teams were back in the day.
 

Tir Na Nog

Changes Opinion Every 5 Minutes
I remember in 2004/2005, a newly promoted Palace side got a well earned draw against a peak Arsène side.

Results like that have always happened in the league.

The Premiership has always been strong, some of you underestimate how good the "smaller" teams were back in the day.

We needed a late Van Persie strike to earn a home draw against a Southampton side which would end up relegated. Lost to Sheffield United a couple of years later too.

These arguments are so so weak and not based on reality at all, more a "feeling" that the league has gotten tougher. Don't even get me started on the money argument. Typical A-M cope because we're utter **** now and they can't get over the fact that we weren't better without Wenger and he wasn't actually holding us back at all.
 

Riou

English Super Cup Enjoyer 🤗
We needed a late Van Persie strike to earn a home draw against a Southampton side which would end up relegated. Lost to Sheffield United a couple of years later too.

These arguments are so so weak and not based on reality at all, more a "feeling" that the league has gotten tougher. Don't even get me started on the money argument. Typical A-M cope because we're utter **** now and they can't get over the fact that we weren't better without Wenger and he wasn't actually holding us back at all.

Would like to see the correlation between people who think the league is way better now, to people who hate Arsène and want to discredit his work here...I reckon they would overlap.

Makes me sad to say about a supposed Arsenal forum, tbh :(
 

IstraBalagina

Well-Known Member
We needed a late Van Persie strike to earn a home draw against a Southampton side which would end up relegated. Lost to Sheffield United a couple of years later too.

These arguments are so so weak and not based on reality at all, more a "feeling" that the league has gotten tougher. Don't even get me started on the money argument. Typical A-M cope because we're utter **** now and they can't get over the fact that we weren't better without Wenger and he wasn't actually holding us back at all.
You Wengerists say that the league hasn't become tougher and that Wenger wasn't holding us back yet somehow he went from invincibles to 6th.
There's no logic in what you say.
 

Makingtrax

Planes, Trains & Social Media Rants
Trusted ⭐

Player: Saliba
The problem here is that there is no clear definition of what the 'league is getting harder' actually means.

The OP talks about competition for CL places ie harder to get into the top 4. A bigger divide between the rich 4 and the rest.

Other people are talking about competion for the so called top 6 and the rise of middle teams like Leicester etc. Some are talking about the overall quality of the whole league in general compared to other European leagues.

These are all slightly different concepts. Surely we should be sticking to one idea in this thread. Is Arsenal somehow losing ground on other teams in the league, top, middle or bottom that might account for our drop from top 4 consistency under Arsène, other than the ineptitude of recent management?

My answer is emphatically no. The club is still spending more on players than Sp**s, Leicester, Everton, Villa and those below etc and a lot more than it was in the years between 2004 and 2013 where some of those were spending more. Is the gap between Arsenal and the top 4 getting bigger? Again, in terms of spend, no more than it was.

So why have we dropped? Simple, these clubs are better run, with better managers. What else can it be?
 

Makingtrax

Planes, Trains & Social Media Rants
Trusted ⭐

Player: Saliba
You Wengerists say that the league hasn't become tougher and that Wenger wasn't holding us back yet somehow he went from invincibles to 6th.
There's no logic in what you say.
Yeah, lets forget the loss of revenue due to stadium build and the fans campaigning to remove him. You're just blinkered.
 

Nacho

World Famous Luchador
Dusted 🔻
I remember in 2004/2005, a newly promoted Palace side got a well earned draw against a peak Arsène side.

Results like that have always happened in the league.

The Premiership has always been strong, some of you underestimate how good the "smaller" teams were back in the day.
I remember O’Niels Aston Villa with that Abonglahor, Carew and Ashley young front 3, a warrior in Laursen at the back, a decent midfield in Gareth Barry and Reo-Coker they were devastating. They were the equivalent of Leicester now, just knocking about outside of CL places.

Premiership has always been strong, teams have just switched places. Except the oil/Manchester clubs.
 

Makingtrax

Planes, Trains & Social Media Rants
Trusted ⭐

Player: Saliba
I remember O’Niels Aston Villa with that Abonglahor, Carew and Ashley young front 3, a warrior in Laursen at the back, a decent midfield in Gareth Barry and Reo-Coker they were devastating. They were the equivalent of Leicester now, just knocking about outside of CL places.

Premiership has always been strong, teams have just switched places. Except the oil/Manchester clubs.
The bottom line here, is that not content with running Wenger off, they’ve now got to rubbish his legacy, since ‘Any manager can get top 4 with Arsenal’ is looking laughable.
 

Riou

English Super Cup Enjoyer 🤗
I remember O’Niels Aston Villa with that Abonglahor, Carew and Ashley young front 3, a warrior in Laursen at the back, a decent midfield in Gareth Barry and Reo-Coker they were devastating. They were the equivalent of Leicester now, just knocking about outside of CL places.

Premiership has always been strong, teams have just switched places. Except the oil/Manchester clubs.

It's like they are judging it, just on Arsenal.

If we do well...clearly a weak league, no other reason we could be at/near the top of it.
If we don't do well...clearly the best league in the history of the sport.
 

Nacho

World Famous Luchador
Dusted 🔻
The bottom line here, is that not content with running Wenger off, they’ve now got to rubbish his legacy, since ‘Any manager can get top 4 with Arsenal’ is looking laughable.
That’s all I see here tbh, some weird satisfaction from trying to prove that the league was micky mouse 10 years ago, yet somehow superior today.

Look at even the stars the league had back in the day. Ronaldo who just returned or Pogba aside is as big as it gets now.
All of the other genuine super stars in the league are academy freaks like Kane, Grealish etc.
 

Makingtrax

Planes, Trains & Social Media Rants
Trusted ⭐

Player: Saliba
That’s all I see here tbh, some weird satisfaction from trying to prove that the league was micky mouse 10 years ago, yet somehow superior today.

Look at even the stars the league had back in the day. Ronaldo who just returned or Pogba aside is as big as it gets now.
All of the other genuine super stars in the league are academy freaks like Kane, Grealish etc.
Having taken it for granted and it was all a big yawn, they’re starting to realise how incredible 20 years of continuous top 4 was. Somehow they’ve got to make it seem less or look stupid for all the crazy things they said about ’top 4 not being a trophy’, ‘No progress’, ‘Stagnation’ etc.
 

IstraBalagina

Well-Known Member
That’s all I see here tbh, some weird satisfaction from trying to prove that the league was micky mouse 10 years ago, yet somehow superior today.

Look at even the stars the league had back in the day. Ronaldo who just returned or Pogba aside is as big as it gets now.
All of the other genuine super stars in the league are academy freaks like Kane, Grealish etc.
Who said it was a micky mouse 😅
I think the worst season in recent years was 2015-2016 but it has improved since with Klopp and Pep joining the league. I don't think there's a constant improvement but at the moment it's very tough.
 

tap-in

Nothing Wrong With Me
Harder to win? for Arsenal yes.

Harder to win if you have a top team? No, I think its the same. Back in the day Arsenal or Utd had just as much chance to win it as Pool & City do now.

Harder to compete in? There are more teams that can take points off you. There have always been games where the underdog wins but nowadays it seem more regular, with most teams capable of beating top 6 clubs, or like Brentford yesterday, a 3-3 draw vs Pool, or Villa beating Utd at Old Toilet!
 

Riou

English Super Cup Enjoyer 🤗
@Macho


"Compared to three, four or five years ago, this is a different planet now, this Premier League," Arteta added. "It has never been as strong as this.

"It is the strongest league in the world, in history, in my opinion, because of the quality of the teams, the quality and the evolved organisation, how the league has developed, the quality of the coaches and the players that are joining this league. It's never been that strong.

"I wouldn't be able to play at this level, it is so much stronger."

🤣
 

AbouCuéllar

Author of A-M essays 📚
@Macho

"Compared to three, four or five years ago, this is a different planet now, this Premier League," Arteta added. "It has never been as strong as this.

"It is the strongest league in the world, in history, in my opinion, because of the quality of the teams, the quality and the evolved organisation, how the league has developed, the quality of the coaches and the players that are joining this league. It's never been that strong.

"I wouldn't be able to play at this level, it is so much stronger."
He's absolutely not wrong. I am not sure why you guys are so intent on muddying the waters.
The thing is when discussing if the league is hard nor or before the same points people use to justify their positions can equally be used by the opposing party to refute it. It's a tricky thing to discuss imo, I don't even know where to being to get even a semi-objective/quantifiable metric of how you would judge it.
How can the results in Europe be used by 'league hasn't improved' truthers to 'refute it'? Confused.
 

AberGooner

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
How about simply using the leagues overall squad cost and how that has increased over time? With that metric you could also look at the relationship between the top 4s squad cost compared to the rest of the league and how that ratio has changed over time.

If we agree that squad cost has a strong correlation to squad quality and to where your team should end up league position wise, then this is the metric to use. As so much money has been pumped into the league over the period it should in my view have improved the overall quality of the league.

That money has always been there for the mid to lower table sides in England though.

You had sides like Fulham and City getting promoted and paying 10m+ for French internationals like Marlet and Anelka in the early 2000's. I don't think any promoted sides where capable of that in Spain or Italy back then either. With inflation that's now a 30m+ fee.
 

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