Is The Premier League Tougher Than It Used To Be?

Is It?


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Rex Banter

Got swerved by DCL's skirt
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You can go around in circles. I’ll say to you Europe was strong between 1990-2015, but there has been a decline elsewhere rather than an uplift in English teams. Serie A has been declining, there are no top Italian teams. Barcelona haven’t built a team so since Pep left, have been disgraceful in recent years. The Real Madrid cycle of Varane, Modric, Kroos, Marcelo etc has come to an end.

In recent Bayern have only been the good CL side outside England.

Your measurements will bring a lot of great players in question too. Then you have the argument that someone like Fernandinho still hasn’t played a CL final despite playing for by far the best English team in recent years, so what does that say?

The level of the champions league was high until about 2015ish, massive decline since then, group stages are watered down and your seeing the same team in and around semis because the rest of Europe has fallen off.

Even this season, an English team will win it, because outside England nearly every team is crap. Barca, Madrid, PSG, Juventus etc all rubbish. It’s Bayern vs England.

I’m just saying you can’t measure the way you are.

Exactly. There’s no proper stats to say that Fernandinho is better than Carrick like there would be in basketball or cricket.

Either you know ball or you don’t.
 

MikelHadADream

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This seems to be quite a controversial question on here. I think you can correlate how strong the PL is to English teams performance in Europe. I'd say there have been two golden periods of the PL, from around 04-09 and from 17ish onwards. I think the middle portion of the 2010's definitely coincidided with a dip in the quality of thr league. The continued influx of money compared to the rest of Europe will only make the league stronger as well. A
 

Penn_

Established Member
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The quality of the outside challengers has dropped to closer to the midtable clubs.

Arsenal and Utd etc are far closer to Everton and Villa then they are City/Liverpool.

Perhaps partly due to the fact that what would’ve one been squad players at top clubs can earn decent money elsewhere, while being a more prominent figure.

Coaching and tactics have also massively improved but I can’t say the same for the standard of players.
 

Riou

Average Community Shield Enjoyer
Carrick was United's best midfielder, in what's probably their best ever team 2006-2009...how could you not think he was elite?

England not using him in a 4-3-3, is why they struggled so much post 2006 World Cup...they had freaking Scott Parker starting in tournaments over him, ffs 🤣

Would have Gilberto Silva over Fernandinho too...Fernandinho was pretty meh, until Pep showed up and started pumping him full of drugs, to be honest.
 

AberGooner

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Still struggle to see any reason or evidence to say the PL is any stronger than it's been in years past.

Outside the top 4 is much and such the same as it's always been and of the top 4 sides from last season you could only really say for definite that City have noticeably improved compared to where they've been in the last 10-15 years. They're basically what United where previously without being able to convert that into European success.

I guess the huge decline in the rest of the top European leagues sort of props up the PL's standing right now as well.
 

Riou

Average Community Shield Enjoyer
I guess the huge decline in the rest of the top European leagues sort of props up the PL's standing right now as well.

This too, annoys me aswell.

Barca when Arsenal are in the Champions League...Messi, Ronaldinho, Eto'o, Villa etc.

Barca when Arsenal aren't in the Champions League...Oh, lets buy Luuk De Jong and Martin Braithwaite!

****ing ****s!
 

AberGooner

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This too, annoys me aswell.

Barca when Arsenal are in the Champions League...Messi, Ronaldinho, Eto'o, Villa etc.

Barca when Arsenal aren't in the Champions League...Oh, lets buy Luuk De Jong and Martin Braithwaite!

****ing ****s!


That Barca side is night and day to anything in Europe right now yet they used to really struggle against Chelsea, think United put them out 1 year as well when Scholes scored that screamer. They'd have won a lot more if not for the quality of the English sides back then.
 

farzad4daarse

🤩 Desperately wishing for Xhaka to date my gf 🤩
You can go around in circles. I’ll say to you Europe was strong between 1990-2015, but there has been a decline elsewhere rather than an uplift in English teams. Serie A has been declining, there are no top Italian teams. Barcelona haven’t built a team so since Pep left, have been disgraceful in recent years. The Real Madrid cycle of Varane, Modric, Kroos, Marcelo etc has come to an end.

In recent Bayern have only been the good CL side outside England.

Your measurements will bring a lot of great players in question too. Then you have the argument that someone like Fernandinho still hasn’t played a CL final despite playing for by far the best English team in recent years, so what does that say?

The level of the champions league was high until about 2015ish, massive decline since then, group stages are watered down and your seeing the same team in and around semis because the rest of Europe has fallen off.

Even this season, an English team will win it, because outside England nearly every team is crap. Barca, Madrid, PSG, Juventus etc all rubbish. It’s Bayern vs England.

I’m just saying you can’t measure the way you are.
If Carrick is this legend on par with the best central midfielders of all time why was he only capped 34 times for England while Fernandinho will finish with double the caps and a South American title. Winning a CL is a team accomplishment, Carrick gets credit for it certainly despite that Fernandinho is better player. By the way he has more domestic league titles than Carrick and won a European cup with Shaktar. Since random quotes by Pep is considered conclusive evidence: "Fernandinho's role in the club became so significant that the manager, Pep Guardiola, said: “If a team has three Fernandinhos, they would be champions. We have one, but he is fast, he is intelligent, he is strong in the air, he can play several positions. When he sees the space he will run there immediately. When you need to make a correction, you just need one player to challenge, and he is there.”

Outside of the UK it isn't so irrational to assume Fernandinho is superior to Carrick. Especially since one captained Brazil to a championship, has way more caps, and is a regular international and Cardick wasn't and didnt. So is Carrick superior to Viera as well because one has CL one doesn't?

I actually think the only way to measure quality of the league is versus European competition, the other leagues are finding it more difficult to compete with Premiership and are selling players to pl. Their loss is Pl gain.
 

farzad4daarse

🤩 Desperately wishing for Xhaka to date my gf 🤩
You guys I hate to say it are unconsciously overrating an English player that outside the UK, most football fans dont rate nearly as high and who never did **** internationally.
 

GDeep™

The Solihull Slob
If Carrick is this legend on par with the best central midfielders of all time why was he only capped 34 times for England while Fernandinho will finish with double the caps and a South American title. Winning a CL is a team accomplishment, Carrick gets credit for it certainly despite that Fernandinho is better player. By the way he has more domestic league titles than Carrick and won a European cup with Shaktar. Since random quotes by Pep is considered conclusive evidence: "Fernandinho's role in the club became so significant that the manager, Pep Guardiola, said: “If a team has three Fernandinhos, they would be champions. We have one, but he is fast, he is intelligent, he is strong in the air, he can play several positions. When he sees the space he will run there immediately. When you need to make a correction, you just need one player to challenge, and he is there.”

Outside of the UK it isn't so irrational to assume Fernandinho is superior to Carrick. Especially since one captained Brazil to a championship, has way more caps, and is a regular international and Cardick wasn't and didnt. So is Carrick superior to Viera as well because one has CL one doesn't?

I actually think the only way to measure quality of the league is versus European competition, the other leagues are finding it more difficult to compete with Premiership and are selling players to pl. Their loss is Pl gain.
Carrick was in contention with Lampard, Scholes and Gerrard. Don’t know why you’re asking me this.

You’re asking about Vieira, but you answer the question with your measurements? Nobody else is using any measurements, we’re just saying “player x” was quality, you’re the one talking about League standards and English teams in Europe. By your measurements Fernandinho is better than Vieira.
 

farzad4daarse

🤩 Desperately wishing for Xhaka to date my gf 🤩
Carrick was in contention with Lampard, Scholes and Gerrard. Don’t know why you’re asking me this.

You’re asking about Vieira, but you answer the question with your measurements? Nobody else is using any measurements, we’re just saying “player x” was quality, you’re the one talking about League standards and English teams in Europe. By your measurements Fernandinho is better than Vieira.
No I am saying that outside the UK other football fans rate Carrick, but nowhere near what you guys rate him. being a CL winner vs not being one doesn't make one individual player better than other. I dont believe Carrick is as good as either Viera, a European and world champion with France; or Fernandinho a South American champion and captain of Brazil. Competition for Brazilian national team spots is at least as difficult.
 

GDeep™

The Solihull Slob
No I am saying that outside the UK other football fans rate Carrick, but nowhere near what you guys rate him. being a CL winner vs not being one doesn't make one individual player better than other. I dont believe Carrick is as good as either Viera, a European and world champion with France; or Fernandinho a South American champion and captain of Brazil. Competition for Brazilian national team spots is at least as difficult.
Other than Casemeiro I don’t know know any top Brazilian CM’s produced by Brazil in the last 15 years. They had trash like Paulista and Ramires playing.

You said the PL is stronger in Europe, that shows Fernandinos level compared to Carrick, so you must think that in a Fernandinho vs Vieira comparison?
 

farzad4daarse

🤩 Desperately wishing for Xhaka to date my gf 🤩
Other than Casemeiro I don’t know know any top Brazilian CM’s produced by Brazil in the last 15 years. They had trash like Paulista and Ramires playing.

You said the PL is stronger in Europe, that shows Fernandinos level compared to Carrick, so you must think that in a Fernandinho vs Vieira comparison?
No I just don’t rate Carrick, Viera is better, Fernandinho is better. He does everything Carrick does better and chips in goals
 

farzad4daarse

🤩 Desperately wishing for Xhaka to date my gf 🤩
By the way Scholes, Lampard, and Gerard play totally different positions. An ageing Gerard was favored to play out of position over Carrick by his own national team coaches.
 

farzad4daarse

🤩 Desperately wishing for Xhaka to date my gf 🤩
Apparently Gerrard said he his presser yesterday, that you don't get players like him and Vieira anymore...but best league ever, I am told :lol:
Yes and he isnt biased, talk to any fat ass ex American high school quarterback and you will notice his youthful memory of himself gets better every year with the passage of time. The luxury number 10 has disappeared due to tactical changes with the way the game is played.
 

mirrorstares

Active Member
I think a current look at the table settles the debate, only 4 teams with positive GD, 3 of those with a GD of +20

It's just slightly better than La Liga at this point, tragic
 

Rex Banter

Got swerved by DCL's skirt
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Yes and he isnt biased, talk to any fat ass ex American high school quarterback and you will notice his youthful memory of himself gets better every year with the passage of time. The luxury number 10 has disappeared due to tactical changes with the way the game is played.

Football is cyclical. Teams will start going to 4-4-2 to counter the back 3 that is really popular right now.

Then they’ll go back to the number 10s who can play in the spaces between the back line.
 

farzad4daarse

🤩 Desperately wishing for Xhaka to date my gf 🤩
I know Vieira is better, I know Fernandinho is great too, I just don’t like how you tried to measure them earlier.
So you believe the eyeball test and quotes from Pep are more telling than how the league fared against European competition? I disagree, this is the strongest the league has been in comparison to the continent since late 70s to middle 80s. By the way both Arsenal and United were kind of **** in that period as well.

If you guys told German, Spanish, or Italian football fans that Carrick is in the same class as Busquets or Xabi Alonso they would think you just ate a bad batch of fish and chips and are suffering from delusions and hallucinations. Regardless of Pep big upping the guy for the media.
 

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