Is The Premier League Tougher Than It Used To Be?

Is It?


  • Total voters
    91

farzad4daarse

Pub League Mik, Out by November !!!
If not for some seriously quality Barcelona and Milan sides the English clubs would have been cleaning up in the Champions League from about 2005-2010. Who is their to even compete with now? Bayern at a push but they aren't the side they where a couple years ago either.

I'd certainly take the Chelsea and United sides from that era over anything on offer in Europe right now. For whatever reason the talent level in the top European leagues has seriously diminished in recent years.
According to your eyeball test it is worse quality, but that isn’t what most people see. The Premier league teams of that period were strong i never said the league was weak. But certainly since the rise of city and Chelsea the teams are stronger you would agree there I assume? Some claim the golden age was 90s. Saying take Milan and Barca out of the picture is worse than someone saying we are tied for first if you take City, Chelsea, and Lfc out of the picture. Bayern maybe not this year but in the last few years is at least as strong as those sides and PSG was a nobody on CL picture in 05-10 and now they are always in the business end of it. So if Barca, Milan, and Real have fallen off since 05-10 other sides that were not as big a factors have risen up like City and PSG.
 

AberGooner

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
According to your eyeball test it is worse quality, but that isn’t what most people see. The Premier league teams of that period were strong i never said the league was weak. But certainly since the rise of city and Chelsea the teams are stronger you would agree there I assume? Some claim the golden age was 90s. Saying take Milan and Barca out of the picture is worse than someone saying we are tied for first if you take City, Chelsea, and Lfc out of the picture. Bayern maybe not this year but in the last few years is at least as strong as those sides and PSG was a nobody on CL picture in 05-10 and now they are always in the business end of it. So if Barca, Milan, and Real have fallen off since 05-10 other sides that were not as big a factors have risen up like City and PSG.

To me there's not any conclusive evidence on that. Certain sides have gotten better like City certainly but on the other hand the likes of Chelsea and especially United are a lot weaker than they where back then.

City and PSG haven't risen up to anything in Europe either, a couple of finals between them is nothing to write home about given the finances of the 2 clubs.
 

farzad4daarse

Pub League Mik, Out by November !!!
To me there's not any conclusive evidence on that. Certain sides have gotten better like City certainly but on the other hand the likes of Chelsea and especially United are a lot weaker than they where back then.

City and PSG haven't risen up to anything in Europe either, a couple of finals between them is nothing to write home about given the finances of the 2 clubs.
This type of analysis is never conclusive it’s a hypothetical that would require a time machine. The most objective way you can measure it is against competition in Europe and globally. If you want to believe football was better 10 or 15 years you are free to. But objectively English sides are doing better now than they did during the golden age, and the national team is doing better than it did then as well. If not for Southgate and missed penalties this is the most accomplished national team reflecting the quality of the domestic players. Arguably 4 or the top 7 or managers in the world all foreign born are also in pl that affects quality as well. The managers follow the talent and the money. It’s a matter of economics really not opinion
 

AberGooner

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
If you want to believe football was better 10 or 15 years you are free to.

Well that's pretty much what it boils down to for me. I think it's fairly accurate, without being possible to prove, that the talent level across European football has substantially regressed since that period of time. To each their own and all that though.
 

farzad4daarse

Pub League Mik, Out by November !!!
Well that's pretty much what it boils down to for me. I think it's fairly accurate, without being possible to prove, that the talent level across European football has substantially regressed since that period of time. To each their own and all that though.
I am suspicious because I have heard the same argument made by older fans in sports, I bet there were codgers in the 90s, and 2000s who used to say that the game has regressed from the 80s and 70s. This is not just football, in every sport I have heard the same refrain over and over again. But the level never really goes backward or for long, over the long haul it always goes up and up. This apparent in sports like track where there are hard and fast objective measures of time. Right now a lot of fans of NBA think today’s league can’t matchup with 10 or 20 years ago, the game is better than it ever has been. So I just don’t trust the eyeball test to resist the lure of nostalgia
 

CaseUteinberger

Showering Xhaka with love 😍
Well that's pretty much what it boils down to for me. I think it's fairly accurate, without being possible to prove, that the talent level across European football has substantially regressed since that period of time. To each their own and all that though.
If we take away the changes with regards to the physicality allowed and the poorer pitches players had to maneuver back say 25 years ago, I cannot see today’s teams not totally kill the teams from back then. The are just much better trained and drilled. Tactical understanding is better now and the overall professionalism and attention to detail has improved. The speed and intensity of today’s game is on another level and the overall level of player quality much better.
 

AberGooner

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
Its simply because most of the talent jumped to Prem mate.

That's not a recent phenomenon though. The PL, club for club, has been the richest league in the world for the best part of 15 years. Which leads back to my point being that it isn't any stronger a competition than it was back then.
 

CaseUteinberger

Showering Xhaka with love 😍
That's not a recent phenomenon though. The PL, club for club, has been the richest league in the world for the best part of 15 years. Which leads back to my point being that it isn't any stronger a competition than it was back then.
Personally think you are mistaken in thinking this. Tactically and player quality wise, especially the domestic English players, are just much better than they used to be, as a group. You can see how the English national team is much better than it used to be. Overall also think football in itself is better now than 15 years ago.
 

AberGooner

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
Personally think you are mistaken in thinking this. Tactically and player quality wise, especially the domestic English players, are just much better than they used to be, as a group. You can see how the English national team is much better than it used to be. Overall also think football in itself is better now than 15 years ago.

England's current squad is one of if not the best in the world, no doubts about it, but I'm not sure how anyone could say they're "much better than they used to be" when they had guys like Ferdinand, Terry, Scholes, Rooney, etc turning out for them.
 

AbouCuéllar

Author of A-M essays 📚
If we take away the changes with regards to the physicality allowed and the poorer pitches players had to maneuver back say 25 years ago, I cannot see today’s teams not totally kill the teams from back then. The are just much better trained and drilled. Tactical understanding is better now and the overall professionalism and attention to detail has improved. The speed and intensity of today’s game is on another level and the overall level of player quality much better.
The coaching level (especially at youth level in England, where today's typical English youth product's tactical and technical level has absolutely nothing to do with the typical English youth product from 10 years ago) has massively changed.
 

Blankety Blank

Well-Known Member
That's not a recent phenomenon though. The PL, club for club, has been the richest league in the world for the best part of 15 years. Which leads back to my point being that it isn't any stronger a competition than it was back then.
Yes but the Prem clubs have got richer over the last 15 years meaning that the standard of the prem is far higher & thus it is harder to get top 4.

Lets take Arsenal 15 years ago if you look at the deloitte rich list the prem had 4 clubs in the top 10 *Arsenal were 3rd richest in the prem & 9th richest in Europe)

Now the prem have 6 clubs in the top 11 (Arsenal are the 6th richest in the prem & 11th in Europe

Thats why top 6 is the new top 4 its down to money, it really couldnt be any clearer.

As i have said on another post If this year we finish 6th i would back us to make the last 16 of the champions league (If 6th qualified) as we used to when finishing 4th.
I would back the teams that Arsène finished 5th & 6th in his last couple of seasons to do the same.

The big problem nowadays is that it is so much harder to get top 4 & qualify.
We saw after Arsène left. its not just as simple as replacing a manager & getting top 4.

Arsène Knew the Prem was getting even tougher, why do you think in his later years he would celebrate 4th like winning a trophy?

If Uefa wanted the best modern clubs to compete in the Champions league they would give the Prem 6 places FACT.
Its why the proposed super league wanted 6 clubs from the prem & not from Spain. Italy Germany, France etc.
 
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farzad4daarse

Pub League Mik, Out by November !!!
England's current squad is one of if not the best in the world, no doubts about it, but I'm not sure how anyone could say they're "much better than they used to be" when they had guys like Ferdinand, Terry, Scholes, Rooney, etc turning out for them.
Then why did they carry god awful Southgate to the first final in 50 years. If not for his incompetence and missed penalties they should be European champs.
 

farzad4daarse

Pub League Mik, Out by November !!!
That's not a recent phenomenon though. The PL, club for club, has been the richest league in the world for the best part of 15 years. Which leads back to my point being that it isn't any stronger a competition than it was back then.
Yes it is and it has to do with the foreign TV deal especially the American TV deal. After signing the latest deal with NBC one big financial analyst stated that after this deal 20 of the top 35 biggest revenue generating clubs in Europe would be the premier league teams. In fact due to the fact that America never gave a flying fig about football and now seems to really like the Pl the most is something that completely changed the financial picture. So it is a matter of economics, the players are following the money to PL. Barca freaking lost Messi on the free.
 

AbouCuéllar

Author of A-M essays 📚
Yes it is and it has to do with the foreign TV deal especially the American TV deal. After signing the latest deal with NBC one big financial analyst stated that after this deal 20 of the top 35 biggest revenue generating clubs in Europe would be the premier league teams. In fact due to the fact that America never gave a flying fig about football and now seems to really like the Pl the most is something that completely changed the financial picture. So it is a matter of economics, the players are following the money to PL. Barca freaking lost Messi on the free.
Indeed. It always surprises me how unaware English football fans are of the broader economic picture. There is a reason Florentino is pushing the Super League for a while now, he is a top businessman and if you look at the numbers it's simply the only way for a club like Madrid to remain economically competitive. It's a simple numbers game, really...67 million people in UK with far higher disposable income and economic possibilities vs. 47 million here with far less economic level, not to mention how tied up US and Asian markets (where the population and economic numbers really explode) are with the PL already...it doesn't matter how good La Liga product is, or that Madrid is the biggest club in the world historically, and Barça one of the biggest, the direction can only go one way...like Italy from the 90s to where it is now.

You look at our mid-table to low-table clubs spending power and it compares to Championship teams...clubs like Atléti or Sevilla still compare equally or unfavourably to the mid-table clubs like Everton, Villa, etc...

La liga was able to have a period of dominance from 08-15 thanks to the 'Black Swan' type phenomenons of Ronaldo and Messi and capitalising on England lagging behind in tactical level thanks to its peculiar football culture, but it was always going this way, and it will only be widening until a super league happens.
 

farzad4daarse

Pub League Mik, Out by November !!!
Indeed. It always surprises me how unaware English football fans are of the broader economic picture. There is a reason Florentino is pushing the Super League for a while now, he is a top businessman and if you look at the numbers it's simply the only way for a club like Madrid to remain economically competitive. It's a simple numbers game, really...67 million people in UK with far higher disposable income and economic possibilities vs. 47 million here with far less economic level, not to mention how tied up US and Asian markets (where the population and economic numbers really explode) are with the PL already...it doesn't matter how good La Liga product is, or that Madrid is the biggest club in the world historically, and Barça one of the biggest, the direction can only go one way...like Italy from the 90s to where it is now.

You look at our mid-table to low-table clubs spending power and it compares to Championship teams...clubs like Atléti or Sevilla still compare equally or unfavourably to the mid-table clubs like Everton, Villa, etc...

La liga was able to have a period of dominance from 08-15 thanks to the 'Black Swan' type phenomenons of Ronaldo and Messi and capitalising on England lagging behind in tactical level thanks to its peculiar football culture, but it was always going this way, and it will only be widening until a super league happens.
That is the whole reason Real and Bayern want out of La Liga and Bundesliga, they want some of that Asian and American TV money that the big English clubs are getting and they are not and they feel their own league dropped the ball by not getting good enough foreign TV deals
 

BigPoppaPump

Reeling from Laca & Kos nightmares
I don't see how anyone can still argue this seeing how awful all the teams outside the top 4 are, fcking West Ham are one of the best teams. Sp**s and United sacked their managers for being awful but still in the race for top 4. All the teams outside the top 4 being on negative goal difference. Look at how many amateur coaches we have as well.
 

<<reed>>

Lidl Tir Na Nog
I don't see how anyone can still argue this seeing how awful all the teams outside the top 4 are, fcking West Ham are one of the best teams. Sp**s and United sacked their managers for being awful but still in the race for top 4. All the teams outside the top 4 being on negative goal difference. Look at how many amateur coaches we have as well.
But AM told me the league was tougher because Newcastle could spend 40m on Joelinton
 

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